NL MVP Race

[Devinep]

I have a major issue with an MVP candidate striking out over 150 times, but I guess I'm old school.

 

 

I’ll take Mike Trout any day.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Stanton won the mvp just last yearr for a team that won 77 games...

[brewmann04]

baez will get it because he from a major market club without question in my mind

[Ennder]

I have a major issue with an MVP candidate striking out over 150 times, but I guess I'm old school.

 

Being old school is cool, nothing wrong with that. You also are 100% clearly with no chance for a mistake wrong, that is a bit more of an issue here. It takes at minimum 30 K's to equal 1 additional non K out. So 150 K in a season has almost no chance to ever sway an MVP argument that makes any sort of sense. It could plausibly be a tie breaker but that is it.

[Ennder]

baez will get it because he from a major market club without question in my mind

 

Recent history proves you are wrong here though. Market size is not winning or losing this MVP. It is Baez being the most exciting player in baseball vs Yelich being the hottest player in baseball.

[lcbj68c]

 

So would you have given the '82 WS MVP to Robin Yount instead of one of the Cardinals?

 

This. Exactly why I feel Trout winning the AL MVP over Betts is asinine.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Looked at some of baez's splits...the brewers have pitched him very well this season...no HRs and a sub 700 OPS for the season series.

 

Yelich should win mvp, and it will be even more of a slight after the brewers win the division over the weekend.

[Baldkin]

 

So would you have given the '82 WS MVP to Robin Yount instead of one of the Cardinals?

 

This. Exactly why I feel Trout winning the AL MVP over Betts is asinine.

 

Yeah, because who is the last guy to win a playoff MVP from a losing team? It pretty much never happens.

 

The regular season though? I mean, Stanton just won it.

[Eye Black]

Jon Heyman was on 670 The Score in Chicago this morning talking about the MVP race and said that winning the division matters in his opinion. He said it is a two horse race in which he had Baez ahead a few days ago, but now has them as nearly even. He also said he thinks Yelich is an average outfield defender despite his gold glove, while he thinks Baez is an underrated defender because he plays multiple positions. Obviously this was on a Chicago radio station, so he was likely to say nice things about Baez. I primarily note these comments because Heyman has an MVP vote.

[JohnBriggs12]

Jon Heyman was on 670 The Score in Chicago this morning talking about the MVP race and said that winning the division matters in his opinion. He said it is a two horse race in which he had Baez ahead a few days ago, but now has them as nearly even. He also said he thinks Yelich is an average outfield defender despite his gold glove, while he thinks Baez is an underrated defender because he plays multiple positions. Obviously this was on a Chicago radio station, so he was likely to say nice things about Baez. I primarily note these comments because Heyman has an MVP vote.

 

Heyman is a shill. He's been yapping all year on the Score that the Cubs are the better team, blah, blah, blah. Yelich won't be a unanimous selection but he's got the momentum on his side and his OPS is .70 higher than Baez. I don't know how that can be ignored.

[DuWayne Steurer]

Trout was mvp in 2016 for a 74 win team.

[jjfanec]

Jon Heyman was on 670 The Score in Chicago this morning talking about the MVP race and said that winning the division matters in his opinion. He said it is a two horse race in which he had Baez ahead a few days ago, but now has them as nearly even. He also said he thinks Yelich is an average outfield defender despite his gold glove, while he thinks Baez is an underrated defender because he plays multiple positions. Obviously this was on a Chicago radio station, so he was likely to say nice things about Baez. I primarily note these comments because Heyman has an MVP vote.

 

I am sure so many of these voters have valued defense in previous years

 

I get Baez is a better at defense but if you going to start valuing defense that much than Cain should be MVP over all of them. Baez is better at defense but right now Yelich is well ahead on the offensive end and overall has a better WAR. The arguments for Baez are becoming lesser by the day

[topper09er]

 

So would you have given the '82 WS MVP to Robin Yount instead of one of the Cardinals?

 

This. Exactly why I feel Trout winning the AL MVP over Betts is asinine.

 

Yeah, because who is the last guy to win a playoff MVP from a losing team? It pretty much never happens.

 

The regular season though? I mean, Stanton just won it.

 

Yup only happened once. My point is just that if you are of the opinion that the WS MVP can only go to the winning team, then that general principle can also extend to the full season obviously to a lesser degree. Sometimes it is useful to look at the extreme cases to make a point. If you think it is reasonable that the WS MVP can only come from the winning team, then I don't think it is consistent to think that letting playoffs vs not playoffs be a deciding factor in the season vote is insane and totally unreasonable.

 

Last year was a good example where the clear top players where not playoff bound so it was a tossup between then. I think in the AL if you have Trout who is clearly the best player in the league vs Betts who is having a career year not too far behind Trout but on the team with the most wins in the league Betts is a fine choice. I also think Trout winning is a fine choice since he is clearly the best player. I know Trout has an insane slash line, but Betts does have more bWAR and fWAR.

 

Based on the history of the award, I think it should go to Betts. In general, the same guy is usually the best player in the league for a stretch but they don't just always win the MVP. Willie Mays led his league in WAR 10 times but won 2 MVPs. No one thinks any less of Mays. The only guy ever with more than 3 Bonds. If Trout finishes his career with 3-4 that would line up with all of the other inner circle HOF all-time greats.

[MoreTrife]

Jon Heyman was on 670 The Score in Chicago this morning talking about the MVP race and said that winning the division matters in his opinion. He said it is a two horse race in which he had Baez ahead a few days ago, but now has them as nearly even. He also said he thinks Yelich is an average outfield defender despite his gold glove, while he thinks Baez is an underrated defender because he plays multiple positions. Obviously this was on a Chicago radio station, so he was likely to say nice things about Baez. I primarily note these comments because Heyman has an MVP vote.

 

Heyman is a shill. He's been yapping all year on the Score that the Cubs are the better team, blah, blah, blah. Yelich won't be a unanimous selection but he's got the momentum on his side and his OPS is .70 higher than Baez. I don't know how that can be ignored.

 

Swipe tags with gold chain swinging. Seriously. Fans love the display and media gets caught up in it. Sucks.

[coolhandluke121]

 

I get Baez is a better at defense but if you going to start valuing defense that much than Cain should be MVP over all of them.

 

https://media3.giphy.com/media/gVoBC0SuaHStq/giphy.gif

 

 

 

I give up. How the heck do you insert a simple gif here? "Edited 3 times" my butt. This is at least my 7th try.

 

Mod edit: Like that?

[pacopete4]

I think what always stinks about a MVP competition like the one Yelich is having with Baez is that each side dogs the other teams player. They are both awesome. I think Yelich should win the award because his numbers indicate he has been just a little bit better and is having a second half of the season that is propelling this team into the playoffs. This doesn't blind me from how fun Baez is to watch play the game too. I wish we had him on our squad. Just because he is a Cub won't take away how great he has been as well.

[jjfanec]

I think what always stinks about a MVP competition like the one Yelich is having with Baez is that each side dogs the other teams player. They are both awesome. I think Yelich should win the award because his numbers indicate he has been just a little bit better and is having a second half of the season that is propelling this team into the playoffs. This doesn't blind me from how fun Baez is to watch play the game too. I wish we had him on our squad. Just because he is a Cub won't take away how great he has been as well.

 

I dont see a ton of people downplaying Baez. It is just that numbers seem to show Yelich is ahead of him. Yelich is simply better almost across the board in offensive stats.

[pacopete4]

I think what always stinks about a MVP competition like the one Yelich is having with Baez is that each side dogs the other teams player. They are both awesome. I think Yelich should win the award because his numbers indicate he has been just a little bit better and is having a second half of the season that is propelling this team into the playoffs. This doesn't blind me from how fun Baez is to watch play the game too. I wish we had him on our squad. Just because he is a Cub won't take away how great he has been as well.

 

I dont see a ton of people downplaying Baez. It is just that numbers seem to show Yelich is ahead of him. Yelich is simply better almost across the board in offensive stats.

 

My post was not a reflection of just this forum.

[homer]

Even though Baez is a better defender at a premium position I don't think that offsets how much better Yelich has been offensively.

[brewcrewdue80]

Yelich .321BA Baez .327OB.

 

This to me makes Yelich the easy pick. The end of the season he literally could be ahead of Baez's OBP in winning the BA title. Especially when as someone noted, these two were tied in the BA ASB?/as 2nd half began.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Even though Baez is a better defender at a premium position I don't think that offsets how much better Yelich has been offensively.

 

How much does defense really play a role in MVP voting? Lets take a look:

 

2017 - Giancarlo Stanton - Solid RF defense, but I have a feeling his 59 HRs were what swung the vote.

2016 - Kris Bryant - Played most of his time at 3B, and frankly wasn't great there. Also spent a good chunk in the OF. He's an average defender.

2015 - Bryce Harper - Good defender

2014 - Clayton Kershaw - I guess he's an outlier

2013 - Andrew McCutchen - Solid defender, at least at that time.

2012 - Buster Posey - The fact that he put up the stats he did as a catcher won him the award

2011 - Ryan Braun - Proof that defense doesn't mean much in MVP votes. Braun at his best was an adequate LF.

2010 - Joey Votto - Good defender, but he's a 1B, so defensive value is marginal.

2008-2009 - Albert Pujols - At his best, Pujols was an average defender.

 

Looking at this list, I just don't think MVP voters really care much about defensive value. There are some decent defenders on this list, but MVP is by and large an offensive award. And Yelich has Baez in nearly every major offensive category, several by large margins.

[homer]

I think that's changing but yes for the most part MVP voters look at the traditional stats like grittiness and team wins. Cain wouldn't have even been in the discussion 10 - 15 years ago. Now he'll probably get several votes.

[stoutdude04]

If MVP truly means most valuable player, who has been more valuable than Yelich to the Brewers? Yes, maybe Baez or Arenado are better players than Yelich, but if you remove Yelich do the Brewers even sniff the playoffs, let alone the division? If you remove Baez I would imagine the Cubs still finish in first place.

 

I realize that's not how the MVP is viewed, but interesting none the less.

[long ball]

If MVP truly means most valuable player, who has been more valuable than Yelich to the Brewers? Yes, maybe Baez or Arenado are better players than Yelich, but if you remove Yelich do the Brewers even sniff the playoffs, let alone the division? If you remove Baez I would imagine the Cubs still finish in first place.

 

I realize that's not how the MVP is viewed, but interesting none the less.

 

I literally see the reverse argument from Cubs fans on twitter and comment sections. They think the Cubs wouldn't make the playoffs w/o Baez and the Brewers would still make the playoffs w/o Yelich.

 

I think it's a lame argument from anyone because it's impossible to substantiate.

[tmwiese55]

Yea I don't think I'd say the Cubs haven't won extra games due to Baez. But in this context, his replacements would be former AS Russell and Zobrist having a great year. For much of this year Yelich's replacement would have been Broxton/Perez or Santana who fell apart. so I think it would be accurate that he's more valuable in the sense we don't have good replacements. But I don't think it's really right or fair to use team depth behind him as a negative.