NL MVP Race

[brewcrewdue80]

Would not having two guys (Cain, Yelich) on the same team take away votes for both? Or is that not an issue?

 

I thought the voting came in 1st to 5th? Maybe it's a few more? But if I'm right, it'd only hurt Yelich if Cain received a higher vote on a particular ballot. I'd assume currently no one would vote Cain ahead of Yelich considering one it playing and the other is sitting out during this final month.

[OldHeidelberg]

Yelich in lead for batting title with .320 & leading OPS. 4 off homerun lead, 13 RBIs off the lead.is right there in every major category

 

Shockingly betting line still has Baez as the big favorite today.

 

I think the batting title could really help his case...a lot.

 

The most recent lines I found were Baez +105 and Yelich +135, that is pretty close and Yelich has a ton of momentum right now. Good arguments can be made for both but I think the batting title would tip the scales.

[sveumrules]

I'd assume currently no one would vote Cain ahead of Yelich considering one it playing and the other is sitting out during this final month.

 

You might be giving the writers too much credit. Cain still leads Yelich by 0.5 WAR according to baseball reference. Old school writers might give Lorenzo more credit than Christian because he is a certified veteran leader with World Series credentials.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if a Cain ends up higher than Yelich on a couple two tree ballots.

[homer]

I'd assume currently no one would vote Cain ahead of Yelich considering one it playing and the other is sitting out during this final month.

 

You might be giving the writers too much credit. Cain still leads Yelich by 0.5 WAR according to baseball reference. Old school writers might give Lorenzo more credit than Christian because he is a certified veteran leader with World Series credentials.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if a Cain ends up higher than Yelich on a couple two tree ballots.

 

I think old school writers use old school stats and wouldn't look at Cain twice.

[tmwiese55]

Think this article kind of nails it

 

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/why-christian-yelich-has-taken-over-the-nl-mvp-race-and-deserves-to-win-the-award/

[Boomer5]

DeGrom needs to be in the conversation. He having one of the all time great pitching seasons.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

DeGrom needs to be in the conversation. He having one of the all time great pitching seasons.

 

It's a tall task getting a pitcher even considered for MVP, much less one with a 9-9 record on a bad team. The Brewers have the NL's most valuable player.

[Boomer5]

DeGrom has a 9.5 bWAR. It’s not anywhere close compared to Cain, Yelich, and Baez.

 

Now there’s a most valuable and best player argument but sports writers seem to have odd criteria.

[long ball]

DeGrom needs to be in the conversation. He having one of the all time great pitching seasons.

 

I would not have a problem with deGrom or even Scherzer, Nola, Freeman, and Corbin. They've all been fantastic.

 

We just don't see very many pitchers win the MVP let alone on a non-playoff team. Your team basically has to make the playoffs to be considered unless you're a position player head and shoulders above the rest of the league.

 

 

 

 

 

Entering the final week of games I think it's basically between Yelich, Baez, Freeman and Carpenter. Dbacks faded hard so Goldy is out. Freeman has faded a bit over the past month. Arenado slumped and Story got hurt. Cain doesn't have the counting stats. Machado probably should be getting stronger consideration, but since he switched leagues he'll be treated unfavorably.

[MrTPlush]

I would vote Degrom. No way he will get it the way writers vote, but he has been so good and so much better than the average crop of NL hitters vying for the award.

[tmwiese55]

DeGrom getting Cy Young on such a bad team is going to be tough enough, no way he's even in the race for MVP. I know he's been ridiculous but it will be even harder and harder now for Ps to win MVP due to pitch counts. Forget the W stats, they're just not as valuable since they go 6-7 innings now instead of 8-9 years ago. And of course they have their own award.

[3and2Fastball]

DeGrom has a 0.94 WHIP. His ERA+ is 209. He is decidedly not having close to an All Time Great season. A Cy Young type season, sure? But they give two of those out every year.

 

Pedro Martinez 2000 0.73 WHIP, 291 ERA+ ... Now that is an All-Time Great season.

 

Hader, actually, is having an All Time Great season for a relief pitcher.

 

I think they'll give the MVP to Baez unless he fails miserably in the last several games of the season.

 

Meanwhile, Mike Trout deserves the AL MVP. It actually isn't that close. Find me another CF in the history of Baseball with Trout's combination of his HR rate this season, .450+ OBP, 24+ steals, his stolen base percentage (24 of 26 attempts) and zero errors on defense. Go ahead, I'll wait.

[coolhandluke121]

Yeah, DeGrom hasn't really been any better than Kershaw and Scherzer were for years. Arrieta and Greinke were up there a couple times as well. And that's just in the NL.

 

That said, with the lack of position player even sniffing 7 WAR at this point, I think opening it up to pitchers makes some sense. However, pitchers have the advantage of being able to influence more plate appearances than hitters. In a way, their WAR is just a "compiling" stat. That's kind of a derogatory term for just having more opportunities. Given how different those roles are, I'm totally fine with the Cy Young and MVP trophies being separate awards. If you're going to be very strict about "value" meaning "wins added", a starting pitcher would win almost every year.

 

For whatever reason, MVP's have to be on winning teams, whereas Cy Young winners do not. I have some misgivings about that, but it's not going away any time soon. I'm okay with winning being a tiebreaker in the case of comparable candidates, like Betts vs. Trout, but Trout should win it nearly every other year. Anyway, there are no MVP candidates pitching for NL playoff contenders, so we won't see a pitcher win it this year.

 

Baez was ahead of Yelich almost all year. It's not surprising that people haven't jumped on the Yelich bandwagon yet. They'll check the stats at the end of the year and see who was better, and that will probably be Yelich. But it's understandable that the average fan wants to wait and see before they anoint him. Baez played well for so long, but I can't give it to a guy with his OBP unless there's no other worthy candidate.

[topper09er]

 

Meanwhile, Mike Trout deserves the AL MVP. It actually isn't that close. Find me another CF in the history of Baseball with Trout's combination of his HR rate this season, .450+ OBP, 24+ steals, his stolen base percentage (24 of 26 attempts) and zero errors on defense. Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

The only seasons to meet this criteria ever are Trout 2018, Larry Walker 1997 and Barry Bonds 1993.

[SRB]

I don't think a pitcher should ever win MVP. There is no Cy Young equivalent for batters.

[SRB]

Meanwhile, Mike Trout deserves the AL MVP. It actually isn't that close. Find me another CF in the history of Baseball with Trout's combination of his HR rate this season, .450+ OBP, 24+ steals, his stolen base percentage (24 of 26 attempts) and zero errors on defense. Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

Trout hasn't even been the best OF in the AL this season.

[MrTPlush]

One could argue Trout is the MVP...however to say it isn't even close is pretty hard to argue. Mookie Betts has arguably been just as good if not better because of his defense.

[3and2Fastball]

 

Meanwhile, Mike Trout deserves the AL MVP. It actually isn't that close. Find me another CF in the history of Baseball with Trout's combination of his HR rate this season, .450+ OBP, 24+ steals, his stolen base percentage (24 of 26 attempts) and zero errors on defense. Go ahead, I'll wait.

 

The only seasons to meet this criteria ever are Trout 2018, Larry Walker 1997 and Barry Bonds 1993.

 

Exactly. However, neither Bonds or Walker were CF 's, and most importantly: neither of them had zero errors on defense.

[3and2Fastball]

One could argue Trout is the MVP...however to say it isn't even close is pretty hard to argue. Mookie Betts has arguably been just as good if not better because of his defense.

 

Betts is close in terms of defensive value, however Trout plays CF not RF. Trout has a .461 OBP, Betts .432... Betts has 30 HR's in 502 AB's, Trout has 37 HR's in 452 AB's. Trout has a better stolen base percentage. Betts has a better batting average and has the advantage of playing on the East Coast. I really don't think it is close.... Trout has been historically great this season. Betts isn't even having a Top Ten RF of All Time season.

 

Let me explain it like this:

 

Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, & Ken Griffey Jr. never had an error free season.

 

Mays & Griffey never had a .450+ OBP season. Mantle did, three times, but he didn't combine it with the stolen bases and defense.

 

If you look at all the Value that Trout brings to the table, the combination of Speed & Power & Defense: SB's, HR's, OBP, & error free defense. It really has been one of the greatest CF seasons of All Time.

[liveforoctober]

You seem to be putting a lot of emphasis on the 0 number. Yes, it is impressive to play error free baseball at any position, but it isn't unprecedented by any means and doesn't tell much of a defensive story at all.

 

Ryan Braun's first year in the OF (2008) was error free with (roughly) the same amount of chances Trout has this year. It can be done.

 

Charlie Blackmon has only one error this year with more chances than Trout. So the difference between those two numbers is one play out of many. However Charlie Blackmon is not in the same universe as Trout defensively. I would caution you have so much ammo at your disposal as to why Trout adds value on defense and is an MVP candidate ... that "0" number shouldn't be near the top of the list. Just my thoughts.

[MrTPlush]

Mookie Betts is clearly the AL MVP. He was only the DH 3 times this year while Mike Trout reaped the benefits of resting more by being inserted into the DH spot on a much more consistent basis.

 

Also this whole errors conversation is kind of terrifying. Mike Trout has zero...Betts ONE. I mean come on. If you have three you are probably Top 10 most in baseball. Who cares about a few errors when it come to defense in the outfield. Really cool stat and all to have zero...but if that is a major deciding factor I don't know. I guess Lorenzo Cain is the worst fielding CFer in baseball.

[tmwiese55]

Yea the error stat is really just a quirk to talk about, should have no merit. The biggest thing for Trout is simply his absurd OBP, it is just crazy valuable to get on base nearly half your plate appearances. Normally i'm for just giving it to Trout every year and i'm fine if they do. But Mookie is comparable in everything this year. If Trout didn't miss 3 weeks he'd have been able to make the counting stats enough to overcome being on a mediocre team imo. I think Mookie missed some time too, so I'm not saying that since Trout missed time he can't win. I'm saying that without those 3 weeks he wasn't able to build up enough of a gap between him and everyone else. Basically,him playing those 3 weeks while Mookie wouldn't have would have clearly made him more valuable. But instead it's kind of a wash.

[3and2Fastball]

There is not a GM ever who would trade Mike Trout for Mookie Betts straight up. But every GM in the world would take Trout in a heartbeat if all they had to give up is Betts. Now that doesn't speak to who is more "valuable" in this particular season but it does lend some perspective. Great CF's are in general much more difficult to find than great RF's. Defensively a great CF is significantly more valuable than a great RF

 

Trout vs RHP this season: .321/.463/.662

Betts vs RHP this season: .331/.421/.589

 

Both great, but Betts has feasted more on LHP's in 118 AB's, but a majority of MLB starting pitchers are RHP's

 

Meanwhile, you guys do realize that Betts has played 3 less games than Trout this season, right? Are you arguing that neither deserve the MVP Award?

[tmwiese55]

I thought I ade my take on the games played clear. But if it wasn't, I think either should win. My point was that had Trout not missed those games, he'd have built up even more stats that would have made it insurmountable. Of course you could say the inverse for Mookie too, but I was just speaking for Trout. Him not on the DL 3 weeks would've been enough to not have their stats be comparable/close anymore thus enough to not have the being on a bad team be the tie breaker. It's a wash though since they both missed

[homer]

Kinda weird to think that Mike Trout is roughly only a year older than Betts. Feels like Trout should be like 30 years old.