Cole Hamels denies rivalry

[Thurston Fluff]

Not really related to this specifically, but has anyone else noticed how salty Cubs fans are? Not talking about today, after losing a game like that we'd be pretty salty too. But I mean more in general. They ended a WS drought in 2016, they have been to the playoffs three years in a row and in all likelyhood will be there for a 4th. They have a good young position player core under team control for several more years. They have all the money in the world to get the pitching to complement that. They have a good front office. They have seemingly dedicated owners who are investing in the team, renovating Wrigley field and such. I mean as far as being a sports fan goes, being a Cubs fan right now should be pretty sweet I would think. Yet there is so much salt anywhere. Now as someone who lives nowhere near either Illinois or Wisconsin this is mainly based on their online presence, so perhaps it isn't reflective of the fanbase at large. Or is it? I'd be curious to know.

 

That seems to happen to a lot of fans in every sport. It seems like fans can only enjoy the ride to first championship and any subsequent one they only enjoy after they win it. The whole ride to the championship is loaded with fret and complaints. See the Packers for a hometown example.

[JohnBriggs12]

Hamels comments are no different than Ken Griffey Jr.’s from years back, that there is nothing to do in Milwaukee. Hamels is only familiar with Milwaukee from pitching once a year on the visiting team a half decade ago or more. Odds are pretty good if it wasn’t a weekend game the stadium was probably less than half full. lol and behold he pitches in front of a full house where 50% of the fans are Cub fans and you can see his perspective when making those comments

 

Hamels should know better. In 2009, the Brewers were out of the race, yet on the next to last weekend of the season, there were crowds of 33,428, 40,141, and 37,197.

 

Big crowds are nothing new in Milwaukee.

[bigredrobbo]

Part of me hopes for a St. Louis/Cubs route through the postseason (should we get there), to stick it to them. Part of me hopes to avoid them completely, since losing to either the Greatest Fans In Baseball™ or Most Annoying Fans in any sport, Ever™, hurts exponentially more, if we were to lose.

[Pugger]

I know a lot of people sell their Cubs tickets to fund the rest of their season ticket package, and I don’t begrudge them that.

 

But there are a lot of fans, myself included, who simply refuse to go at this point because being a Brewers fan at a home game against the Cubs is an awful, awful experience. It’s not just being drowned out by road team fans. It’s the loud arrogant trash-talking Cubs crowd that is always there, yelling at any Brewers fan they can find more than they actually root on their own team. Every freaking game. And I apologize to those that are offended by it and think I’m part of the problem, but I’m not going to sit through 3 hours of that multiple times a year for the sake of proving my fanhood.

 

I’m a season seat holder (20-game), and I don’t sell Cubs tickets. I could, but I don’t. I just don’t buy them, because why would I? I watch sports for fun, and these games are anything but.

 

Egad, I didn't know it was this bad. My sister married a guy from Chicago who is a huge Cubs fan but he isn't like the boors who show up at MP. I wouldn't go to a game a MP under these circumstances either.

[homer]

I have been to several Brewers/Cubs games at MP and never really had a problem. I'm curious where people sit that are having issues. I'm usually on the Loge level.

[pacopete4]

I have been to several Brewers/Cubs games at MP and never really had a problem. I'm curious where people sit that are having issues. I'm usually on the Loge level.

 

This is my experience as well and I sit all over the place.

[Bob Skube Snacks]

As much as I bashed above, I’ve never had an issue when I saw the Brewers at Wrigley either, although I went in 2011 and 2014 when the Cubs sucked. (Haven’t seen the Cubs in Milwaukee since ‘98.)

 

Only issue was afterwards when I got on the El. Brewers lost. I’m in the train and a Cubs fan on the platform banged on the window to tell me and the Brewers to #$ off followed by several flip-offs. Boorish and chicken #$$&? Yeah, but whatever.

[BuckyBrewer61]

I have been to several Brewers/Cubs games at MP and never really had a problem. I'm curious where people sit that are having issues. I'm usually on the Loge level.

 

I’m usually in the loge level. It’s not always direct trash talking (though it isn’t at all uncommon...). It’s also constant chatter about how great their fans are, how pathetic Brewers fans are in their own home park, the booing of Ryan Braun as loudly as possible, the screaming of “CUBBIES” during the 7th inning stretch as loud as possible. The Cubs fans are energized by the overtake of the park and so get even louder than they normally would because they want Brewers fans to know it, directly or indirectly.

 

Maybe I’m just overly sensitive, and I don’t always blame them entirely. I’d probably have fun overtaking another team’s stadium too. But I just can’t stand it. So I don’t go.

[tmwiese55]

Frankly a lot of the problems witnessed are just likely the result of two fanbases who are heavy drinkers. I've been to a lot of CHC vs MKE games in MP and Wrigley and personally I never have a problem mostly because I'm just polite and nice to everyone. THe dumbest thing to listen to is them booing and bashing Braun for PEDs while oblivious to Sosa (and likely Arrietta) and of course the loud chear for routine fly balls. However, I've certainly witnessed a lot of problems. While it's tough to say for sure who the initiator is I'd lean Cubs fans instigating and then MKE fans going back at them instead of just rolling their eyes and moving on.

 

Of course I'm biased, but I'm basing that off of the small wisecrack comments that I hear from them all the time that someone like me just makes a joke back and have fun with it and/or chuckle and move on. That combined with how many road sporting events I go to for UW sports and our fans are generally the second most friendly (outside of our students) after Nebraska so I think that would generally apply to Brewers fans. Who knows though, there's probably a lot of our fans who curse at them to "go back to Wrigley" using a few curse words and then of course they don't back down either.

[SoCal Brew Crew Fan]

I decided to do some simple attendance math off of baseball-reference. Let's compare the Cubs & Milwaukee.

 

Chicago Metro is 9.5mm, about 2x the size of Wisconsin & 6x the Milwaukee MSA. Yes, they split with the Sox, but also draw more regionally. Needless to say it's a much larger fanbase.

 

Since 1970, the Cubs have drawn 110.4mm fans. The Brewers 91.2mm. Cubs will say they didn't have lights until the early 80s. The Brewers had to rebuild a fanbase after the Braves left and went through some dark years at the end of County Stadium & the late Selig years. The Cubs have won a WS with 9 playoff appearances. The Brewers have been to one WS & lost, with 4 playoff appearances. Given the disparity...not a dramatic attendance difference.

 

Let's tack on the Braves. They outdrew the Cubs in 11 of 13 years, only dipping below after the team announced they were moving. Cumulative (removing the 4 years Milwaukee had no baseball), the attendance is 110.8mm for Milwaukee to 120.5mm for Chicago. Add in two additional WS appearances for Milwaukee including one Championship and nothing for the Cubs.

 

In the 65 years since MLB landed on the shores of Lake Michigan, Milwaukeeans have treated their team and baseball a helluva lot better than they've been treated at times given what happened with the Braves. It's a loyal fanbase and a great baseball town. My exercise is actually dumb, since Milwaukee has no reason to measure itself against Chicago. The teams, the history and the fans stand on their own, regardless of how many idiots from Naperville come up for games or what some temporary pitcher who is begging for a contract says.

 

You rock Brewers fans! Fly the St. Augie & Fly the L!

[Samurai Bucky]

I talked to my dad about this and before the Braves came into town, this area was basically a Cubs fan base.

 

As was said many times -- Milwaukee's fan base is much smaller than Chicago's, but has attendance that is comparable.

 

Go away, Troll Hamels...

[Warning Track Power]

As others have mentioned, for some, this is a class issue, since Cubs fans (particularly in Chicago proper) are far more affluent on average than your typical Brewers (or even Cardinals) fan.

This, perhaps more than anything, is one of the more annoying things I have found being a Wisconsin sports fan. The opinion that Illinois, Chicago in particular, is a simply a higher class of people than the neanderthals that live in Wisconsin. Being a Wisconsin sports fan who was born and has lived his entire life outside of Los Angeles (I am in my mid-30s), I find it comical that so many Chicago natives have such little self-awareness that they are lumped together with Wisconsinites, Michiganders, Indianans and Minnesotans as Midwesterners by a majority of the country.

 

I can't stand the Vikings, Cardinals and Buckeyes, but by no means do I identify as a higher class of citizen because I am from California and they are from Minnesota, Missouri and Ohio. This to me permeates Chicagoan way of thinking as it pertains to their fandom. We're better because we're better people than you. It's pretty detestable behavior.

[Fear The Chorizo]

A big part of this also stems from the fact that until 1998, the Brewers were an AL team and never played the Cubs. I know tons of people who like both the Cubs and Brewers (as weird as that seems now), because when they were growing up and through their parents' generation, their AL team was the Brewers and their NL team was the Cubs. So, you have scores of longtime Cub fans, whose family rooted for them long before the Brewers even existed, living in or extremely close to the Milwaukee market. After all, who beat the Brewers in the 82 series? The Cards...and who is typically considered their biggest rival? Yup, the Cubs. It was actually pretty easy to root for both the Brewers and Cubs for a long time because they didn't have a competitive history and they shared hatred of the same other clubs.

 

I try not to get too ticked off about it, because frankly the proximity to Chicago revenue and Cub fans is as big a reason as any why the Brewers are still in Milwaukee. Prior to Miller Park even opening, I remember Bud Selig himself and other Brewer PR reps sitting in the Cubs' broadcast booth during Cub / Brewer games as the ballpark was being built talking about how great it will be for Chicago Cub fans to have such a close opponent to their backyard - particularly with a stadium that basically guarantees no rainouts. I even recall some mentions of how Milwaukee was still sort of a Cub town during that timeframe, since even interleague play really hadn't taken off until the late 90's, the Brewers just starting off as a NL team, and they were in the midst of an extended period of being a MLB afterthought without a clear path towards contention.

[owbc]

Based on the experiences shared in this thread and past similar ones, it sounds like the #1 thing the Brewers could do to improve the Cubs/Brewers fan ratio at Miller Park is to crack down hard on excessive drinking and poor fan behavior. Too many people are having their experiences spoiled by rude and/or intoxicated fans. Perhaps these games need to have cheering sections where only Brewers fans are allowed.

 

The other thing (which will be unpopular) is to discourage reselling of season tickets for profit. Maybe this can be done is a positive way such as giving rewards to season ticket holders who show up to the Cubs games or giving season ticket holders the option to be relocated into one of the Brewers-only sections.

 

Here's another idea--the Brewers can re-frame the entire 'rivalry' thing and have a direct marketing campaign to encourage Cubs fans to come to Miller Park--and convert to Brewers fans. The Cubs--Ricketts in particular--have basically priced a large segment of their fanbase out of their home ballpark, encouraging them to attend road games instead. The Cubs depend on the Brewers to keep this segment of fans engaged in the ballpark experience. They need us! The Brewers can sell their ballpark experience--want to cheer on your favorite team in the convenient and affordable Miller Park? Why only come for Cubs games? Be a Brewers fans and enjoy it all the time!! I don't know if it will actually convert anyone but I think it would send strong message regardless.

[josh]

I can see why it might seem like a good idea to change the subject when you don't do a good job at work, Cole.

[josh]

I'm digging owbc's idea to play up the rivalry. It ain't goin' away. Might as well have some fun with it.

 

They could produce some video board content for these series, "The Cubs Fan's Guide To A Real Ballpark". Do it in the style of the pre-flight videos where the flight attendants show how to use flotation devices. Show Cubs fans how to use non-trough urinals, how to not spill beer on small children, how to assess whether a fly ball may or may not be a home run, and so on.

 

Playing up mutual contempt for the Cardinals might be fun, too. We do have some common ground.

[owbc]

Show Cubs fans how to use non-trough urinals, how to not spill beer on small children, how to assess whether a fly ball may or may not be a home run, and so on.

 

I think this would be hilarious.

[bjkrautk]

I am thankful for the Cubs fans who realize it is cheaper to attend a Brewers-Cubs game at Beautiful Miller Park than it is to pay for parking in Wrigleyville, as they subsidize my own attendance at less-expensive games.

 

It makes it all the more worthwhile to hear shallow fly balls celebrated like Sammy Sosa hitting the Stadium Club window during the HR Derby, and all the complaints about the two-fisted slobbers / sloppers wearing Cubs gear all the more tolerable, as does beating the team from Miller Park South when they come to town.

[jerichoholicninja]

Double ticket prices for all Cubs games and slash prices by 50% for all tickets to the same number of games scattered throughout the year. Suck the FIB's dry and increase attendance for other games. Win/Win.

[danzig6767]

I know a lot of people sell their Cubs tickets to fund the rest of their season ticket package, and I don’t begrudge them that.

 

But there are a lot of fans, myself included, who simply refuse to go at this point because being a Brewers fan at a home game against the Cubs is an awful, awful experience. It’s not just being drowned out by road team fans. It’s the loud arrogant trash-talking Cubs crowd that is always there, yelling at any Brewers fan they can find more than they actually root on their own team. Every freaking game. And I apologize to those that are offended by it and think I’m part of the problem, but I’m not going to sit through 3 hours of that multiple times a year for the sake of proving my fanhood.

 

I’m a season seat holder (20-game), and I don’t sell Cubs tickets. I could, but I don’t. I just don’t buy them, because why would I? I watch sports for fun, and these games are anything but.

 

I've been to 4 Brewers/Cubs games this year and have had no issues.

 

Nor have I

 

I've been to about a dozen Brewers/Cubs games at Miller Park and really enjoyed the back and forth atmosphere at the majority of them. Granted, i don't go with young kids since mine is grown, so any swearing and such doesn't faze me at all. I usually go with other grown men, which lends to never feeling intimidated by any belligerent Cubs fans.

 

For families though, i can see why some of them don't appreciate that atmosphere, especially if seated in a section where rowdiness is unpleasant to threatening.

[pacopete4]

Per TomH

Counsell on the Hamels "no rivalry" nonsense: “I really look at it like we're spending way too much time trying to classify rivalries. Enjoy the baseball games, man. Home, road, I'm happy to be in the building."

 

Translation... who gives a crap. Good for CC!

[pitchleague]

I wonder if they could do some special seating arrangement, like third base side of the stadium is Cubs fans only and first base side is Brewers fans only. They could do some cross-stadium cheers/chants. One side wearing all white, the other all blue. Make it a more fun atmosphere.

 

I LOVE the pregame video idea. Awesome. THAT should be sent to the Brewers PR department.

[LouisEly]

Brewers Twitter feed with some great trolling last night - "Putting the L in rivalry".

 

One of the writers (I think McCalvy) put out a tweet with a GIF of a Brewers fan bringing out a big blue flag with an "L" on it. I tried to save it to my phone but couldn't figure out how. If anyone can save and share that it would be greatly appreciated.

[hawing]

Not really related to this specifically, but has anyone else noticed how salty Cubs fans are? Not talking about today, after losing a game like that we'd be pretty salty too. But I mean more in general. They ended a WS drought in 2016, they have been to the playoffs three years in a row and in all likelyhood will be there for a 4th. They have a good young position player core under team control for several more years. They have all the money in the world to get the pitching to complement that. They have a good front office. They have seemingly dedicated owners who are investing in the team, renovating Wrigley field and such. I mean as far as being a sports fan goes, being a Cubs fan right now should be pretty sweet I would think. Yet there is so much salt anywhere. Now as someone who lives nowhere near either Illinois or Wisconsin this is mainly based on their online presence, so perhaps it isn't reflective of the fanbase at large. Or is it? I'd be curious to know.

When the obnoxious traveling subgroup of the CHC fanbase visited Miller Park in April 2017, I remember thinking almost precisely this. I might have even posted about it on Brewerfan somewhere. Their team was less than six months beyond their WS victory, and looked to be very well positioned for continued success. Virtually EVERYTHING was coming up Cubs. Yet they were gripey sourpusses throughout and after the game. Come on.

[StearnsFTW]

Brewers Twitter feed with some great trolling last night - "Putting the L in rivalry".

 

One of the writers (I think McCalvy) put out a tweet with a GIF of a Brewers fan bringing out a big blue flag with an "L" on it. I tried to save it to my phone but couldn't figure out how. If anyone can save and share that it would be greatly appreciated.