2018 Green Bay Packers Season Thread: 6-9-1: Mike McCarthy Fired, Philbin Interim HC

[rickh150]

Sitting Rodgers is a slam dunk.

Sitting other regulars or at least freely subbing them for other young players with the team next year is also the obvious play.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Rodgers won't sit. No way, no how. Maybe some younger guys get a little more time, but most every healthy vet will play. The NFL isn't the NBA. Teams don't tank.

 

I can see the value in losing the game, though, as it may be the difference between a top 10 pick and one in the mid teens.

[rickh150]

No winning this one, all I can say.... thanks Mark, Joe, ARod, and rest of starters for not being cowards & playing the what if game about the fraction of a percent of serious injuries that will impact next season. Giving fans something enjoyable to watch at Lambeau unlike the preseason game some want.

 

Thanks for having a clue! Davonte.... go get your 2+ catches 133+yards and 2 tds! Set all receiving records in GB! (Sure Kizer could get you there).

 

Not sure why you are thanking these players..... you are RIGHT! They should want to keep playing if they can. Agree wholeheartedly! Yet, it is management's role here, even more so than coach, to see the bigger picture and be the voice of reason and sit some vets on the books for next year. Unlike you, I want our backups and young guys to get it done in the finale.

[rickh150]

Rodgers won't sit. No way, no how. Maybe some younger guys get a little more time, but most every healthy vet will play. The NFL isn't the NBA. Teams don't tank.

 

I can see the value in losing the game, though, as it may be the difference between a top 10 pick and one in the mid teens.

 

Rodgers sat last season even though he played week before (Week 16) to its conclusion.

So he quit on his team last season? Funny how the narrative changes from year to year, yet the situation is relatively the same.

Glad he wants to play and all that..... management simply should go with their young guys.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Rodgers won't sit. No way, no how. Maybe some younger guys get a little more time, but most every healthy vet will play. The NFL isn't the NBA. Teams don't tank.

 

I can see the value in losing the game, though, as it may be the difference between a top 10 pick and one in the mid teens.

 

Rodgers sat last season even though he played week before (Week 16) to its conclusion.

So he quit on his team last season? Funny how the narrative changes from year to year, yet the situation is relatively the same.

Glad he wants to play and all that..... management simply should go with their young guys.

 

I'm not really arguing that it's what I want to happen. Just saying it's what I think will happen. I'd be very, very surprised if Rodgers doesn't play the whole game. They have given no indication that shutting Rodgers down is even a consideration this year. I do agree that it is a similar situation to Game 17 last year, though.

[Jenkins5]

Judging from injury report, we will see ton of young guys. There are a few guys I hope see field a lot over starters. WRs Moore, Kumerow, Lazard, with MVS who already plays a lot. Tonyan should get good amount of reps. Defensively, we are already beat up & inexperienced. Troy Brown is an aggressive CB I’d like to keep seeing more of but outside of that.... we already play a 2nd team mostly.

 

If Rodgers was to sit, Boyle is only one I’d want to watch. He has special arm & we have seen Kizer & what he can do.

[pacopete4]

Did Favre ever not finish a season? I know he at least started the games but I can’t remember if he ever sat after let’s say the first quarter?

[CheezWizHed]

Did Favre ever not finish a season? I know he at least started the games but I can’t remember if he ever sat after let’s say the first quarter?

 

Earlier in his career he was benched for Mark Brunell for bad performance (there was a debate for a while as to who should be the starter).

[Jenkins5]

Did Favre ever not finish a season? I know he at least started the games but I can’t remember if he ever sat after let’s say the first quarter?

 

Earlier in his career he was benched for Mark Brunell for bad performance (there was a debate for a while as to who should be the starter).

 

I loved Brunell and soon as he went to Jags, my dad bought me a Jag Brunell Jersey.... justified benching

 

Highly doubt my 9 year old will ask for a Kizer Jersey if ARod sat.

 

Point I want ARod playing Sunday regardless of record..... and Brunell was amazing

[CheezWizHed]

Lion Game Summary so far: Defense looks like they are trying. Offense looks apathetic. ST looks pathetic. How did Zook come highly recommended?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It appears the Packers will be picking at #12 at worst. Could be as high as #10, depending on the outcome of the Bengals and Broncos games.

[adambr2]

By no means am I calling for the guy's head after 1 season, but to say Gute's first season as GM was not good would be an understatement. Keeping Cobb and Matthews seems to have been a waste, Graham was a poor signing, and Marcades Lewis seemed to barely exist. Kizer seems like a bad trade and another in our long line of horrific backup QBs.

 

I'd give Gute high marks for the draft but he struck out everywhere else.

[CheezWizHed]

I'm going to disagree about Matthews. He was expensive, but he was also one of the few bright spots on defense. He stayed healthy and played hard all year. I'd actually advocate to resign him (at a reduced salary of course).

 

Cobb and Graham were bad. I still think Jordy in the slot would've been better than Cobb.

 

I debate whether Lewis was a bad sign or just limited usage. But regardless, he didn't help much.

 

Kizer came in for dumping Randall. Garbage for garbage.

 

They also signed Bell and Williams. Neither were world beaters, but helped the team.

 

I'd give him a B overall.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think it's time to spend draft capital or find some way to acquire a young, athletic TE. It's been retread after retread after Finley was forced into retirement, and not having a consistent weapon in that spot has been a big detriment. Going into last season, I was hoping they'd grab Trey Burton as a free agent, but instead they spent more on a clearly over-the-hill Graham. Graham was terrible by any means, and he played hard all year, but he clearly wasn't the difference maker he was billed as, and it's because his speed is gone. He can still be a sold role player, but isn't worth near the money he's getting.

[adambr2]

I'm going to disagree about Matthews. He was expensive, but he was also one of the few bright spots on defense. He stayed healthy and played hard all year. I'd actually advocate to resign him (at a reduced salary of course).

 

Cobb and Graham were bad. I still think Jordy in the slot would've been better than Cobb.

 

I debate whether Lewis was a bad sign or just limited usage. But regardless, he didn't help much.

 

Kizer came in for dumping Randall. Garbage for garbage.

 

They also signed Bell and Williams. Neither were world beaters, but helped the team.

 

I'd give him a B overall.

 

I'd put all of Fackrell, Clark and Alexander as brighter spots on defense than Matthews, and none of them commanded an 11.5M cap hit.

 

Also I don't agree that Randall is garbage. Regardless of what people thought of him he was a solid player, arguably our best corner at the time, traded for Brett Hundley 2.0. He had a solid year in Cleveland. We can hardly afford to be trading away talent.

 

Bell and Williams were bodies, little else, teams fill out their rosters with these types all the time.

 

I loved his draft, loved getting the extra pick from the Saints even though it looks like that pick is going to be much later than we had hoped. I just don't love much else of what he did in 2018.

[adambr2]

Cutting ties with Graham, Perry, Crosby, and Williams frees up about $26M after dead money, assuming Graham and Perry are designated post June 1st cuts.

 

I just hope we don't get hung up on sunk costs and dead cap like we clearly did with Cobb and Clay. It is what it is, Ted Thompson created a mess and its going to take some time to dig out of it. If we need to move on, move on.

[CheezWizHed]

If you don't want to trade away talent, why do you want to cut it? Matthews was expensive, but actually had a good year. Yes, so did Alexander, Fackerall and Clark.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I think they are fine at RB, WR, LT, C, QB, DE, NT, ILB and CB. They need big upgrades at G, RT, TE, OLB and S. I think offensive line is the biggest priority, as keeping Rodgers upright and protected needs to be of the utmost importance. Next is OLB, then TE and S. They should be able to get what will probably be one of the top 1-2 offensive linemen or pass rusher in the draft at #12, then grab a starter at TE or S with the late 1st and early 2nd.

[adambr2]

If you don't want to trade away talent, why do you want to cut it? Matthews was expensive, but actually had a good year. Yes, so did Alexander, Fackerall and Clark.

 

Because everyone operates under the same salary cap, so getting the most talent out of every dollar spent is crucial.

 

Demarious Randall had a $1.5M cap hit and was well worth his production for that amount. Clay Matthews had a $11.369M cap hit and his production was worth nowhere close to that.

[LouisEly]

I'd argue that they are in need of depth at ILB. Even if Burks makes a big jump, they have nobody behind them.

 

If you believe PFF's grading, Spriggs has graded above average when he has played. He didn't look good against Mack, but Mack has made just about everyone who has tried to block him look bad. There's a reason the Bears are paying him $23M/year. Depth is needed, but I don't think you draft a RT at #12. I'd rather they go Allen or Polite. If both of those guys are gone, try to trade down a few spots and grab Clelin Ferrell or one of the DTs. Try to get a RT in free agency.

 

They are being hurt by Herbert going back to school. He would likely have gone before #12, sliding someone further down. I really hope Josh Allen is still available, but I think he'll be gone by #8 much less #12. I'm warming on Polite, who led the nation in forced fumbles in addition to being 7th in sacks.

 

There's some depth at edge rusher in this draft. They can get guys like Jaylon Ferguson, Oshane Ximines, Joe Jackson, and Kenny Willekes in the 2nd or 3rd round if they don't get one in the first.

[Jenkins5]

This draft & our position is perfect to finally land an OLB. This is one of the best EDGE drafts in awhile. Packers can move up if they want to compete to get Bosa (unlikely) or Allen. Then you have the giant grouping of Ferrell, Burns, Sweat, and Polite whole all are projected to go 10-25. Combine will play a big role with stock of these guys.

 

Derrick Brown, Reshan Gary, and Jeffrey Simmons are all 3-4 DEs who could be impact guys as well next to Clark.

 

FS Deonte Thompson is absolutely perfect ballhawking safety. Would love to move up with that 2nd pick to get him.

 

Jonah Williams is projected from top 10 to late first. He is only lineman I have interest in 1st with either pick. He is perfect Packer swing lineman. He can play RT. He has great feet and technique to make up for smaller arms. He is just smart & a technician. Not over powering but just absolutely sound.

 

Late 1st TE targets will be available with Noah Fant, Albert O, & Irv Smith Jr. if they have good combine.

 

It’s a terrible year to have such an awful QB class to not help guys drop down the board. 3 picks in top 44 though could really fill holes.

 

A way too early guess but if you could get

 

FS Thompson at 12

Burns/Ferrell/Sweat in late first (Chock Saints!)

TE Albert O or Fant who enjoyed watching at Iowa

 

That’s 3 major holes patched

[CheezWizHed]

Demarious Randall had a $1.5M cap hit and was well worth his production for that amount. Clay Matthews had a $11.369M cap hit and his production was worth nowhere close to that.

 

Yes, but quitting on the team is a pretty crucial knock on a player. HHCD pretty much did the same without actually leaving the field. Hard to have team unity with that attitude. Now, I think a big share of that falls to the coaching staff, but I think Gute's hands were tied and he made the most of a bad situation.

 

I agree that CM was expensive, but how would we have replaced his production for less? Might have been nice to renegotiate him down a bit. But we were so thin at OLB, cutting Matthews would've made it far worse. And replacing him in FA very expensive.

 

I suppose you could say that a shrewd trade with a team deep in OLB talent would've been better. And those kind of moves would give Gute an "A" for the season, IMO.

[JosephC]

I think they are fine at RB, WR, LT, C, QB, DE, NT, ILB and CB. They need big upgrades at G, RT, TE, OLB and S. I think offensive line is the biggest priority, as keeping Rodgers upright and protected needs to be of the utmost importance. Next is OLB, then TE and S. They should be able to get what will probably be one of the top 1-2 offensive linemen or pass rusher in the draft at #12, then grab a starter at TE or S with the late 1st and early 2nd.

 

You are a bit more optimistic than I am. At this point I would prioritize OLB and see every single non-special teams position after that as just about an equal need. I don't like the depth on this team at all and haven't for the last couple of seasons. Sunday's game is the perfect example. They probably shouldn't be expected to win having that many starters out. But the Lions weren't a good team, the Packers were at home and the game was not the slightest bit competitive. There are significant depth issues pretty much at every position.

 

Just some more notes.

 

Smartest move that Thompson ever made was drafting Rodgers when Favre still seemingly had a couple good years left. The Packers should not rule out drafting a QB high if the right one is there. If anything, it would be foolish to assume that Rodgers will start 16 games per season from this point forward. Favre was (still is) the gold standard when it comes to QB durability, and history has proven that Thompson was smart for taking Rodgers when he did.

 

They would be foolish to assume that Valdes-Scantling and St. Brown makes WR a non-need. I think both of them have good upside but if I had a nickel for every flash-in-the-pan NFL receiver I've seen..... If the Packers make a big investment in a receiver and Valdes-Scantling and St. Brown both become good players, then the Packers have four good receivers and there is no rule against putting four receivers on the field at the same time.

 

Thankfully Alexander has solidified the CB position enough where it's not such a glaring need like it's been the last few off-seasons. I thought Gutekunst was basically locked into taking a CB last year because they were just so awful at that spot. But I have zero confidence in King's durability and Josh Jackson started badly, looked a bit better and then ended badly again. CB isn't a huge need, but is still a position that is shakey and I wouldn't mind seeing another upgrade there.

 

But OLB is just brutally bad. If the new coach sticks with a 3-4, I just don't think there is any question that Gutekunst will be forced to take an OLB with at least one those first round picks unless the quality is just completely off-the-board when those picks are made.

[nodakfan17]

Pro Football Focus graded-out the Packers’ O-Line as 7th best in the NFL during the regular season.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

[adambr2]

Pro Football Focus graded-out the Packers’ O-Line as 7th best in the NFL during the regular season.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

 

Impossible. Any Packer fan around will tell you that the O-Line is garbage.

 

Interesting stat: 45 out of the 53 times Rodgers was sacked this year, the sack happened later than 2.5 seconds after the snap.