2018 Green Bay Packers Season Thread: 6-9-1: Mike McCarthy Fired, Philbin Interim HC

[OldSchoolSnapper]

He has hung 45 on lots of teams over the years. I don't think it's as simple as "he couldn't do it with Rodgers." There are lot of structural problems with this operation right now. He is the fall guy at the moment that undoubtedly shares blame, but there is plenty to go around and he was the next whipping post in line.

[PeaveyFury]

It is merely pent up frustration by fans with rightfully high standards that they have seen the train wreck coming for several years now and voiced quite publicly to no avail.

 

I agree with the decision to let McCarthy go, but stuff like this starts to lose me. I think fans that constantly call for change usually get ignored because they're like the guy at a football watch party that yells 'watch the fake' before every punt.... he's wrong 99% of the time, but he relishes looking like a genious the one time each season he's right.

 

Not every game is lost because of coaching. Not every high draft pick is an all-pro. 31 teams in the NFL finish the year disappointed. The Packers have been on a stretch of success that isn't exceeded by any other franchise except for the Patriots. Yeah, it's time for a fresh start on this staff. But the guys who have been let go over the past 11 months deserve a lot of credit for building and maintaining that success even if their success caused them to be held onto a bit too long.

 

Should they have won more? Maybe. But how many other teams wonder that as well? It's a question with an unprovable answer.

 

Yeah, the roster has deteriorated over the past few seasons. Partially due to aging talent, partially due to bad drafting, partially due to drafting to (correctly, IMO) try and fix the defense at the expense of the offensive talent. Is that McCarthy's fault? Not by himself, certainly not. But just like in 2005, you addressed the issue in the F.O. and gave the coach a year to stay on and it ended up not working out. With a new face in the F.O., as with Thompson, this offseason is likely to put more of Gute's stamp on the direction of the franchise than the 1st did. Time for a fresh start with a new face on the sideline.

 

I only hope it works out as well or better this time as it did in '05... with us in the NFC Championship game two seasons later.

[xisxisxis]

The only other comparison I can think of to the Packers with Favre and Rodgers is the Niners with Joe Montana and Steve Young. The Niners were 5-0 in super bowls with those 2 quarterbacks. The Packers are 2-1 with a ton of missed opportunities. Not all of that is on McCarthy, but let's not forget the talent level he has had at his disposal (not so much recently, but plenty of his 13 years). This organization has underperformed given having those 2 QBs back to back with only 3 super bowl appearances in 25 years. McCarthy was/is a nice guy from all indications, but his game decisions/adjustments are mediocre and its time to move on. No hate for him, but his talents aren't enough to elevate a mediocre team and it can be argued he has hampered a talented team.

[PeaveyFury]

The only other comparison I can think of to the Packers with Favre and Rodgers is the Niners with Joe Montana and Steve Young. The Niners were 5-0 in super bowls with those 2 quarterbacks. The Packers are 2-1 with a ton of missed opportunities.

 

Though true, didn't the 49ers only go 1-0 with Young, the 2nd of the two HOF QB's? That's where the Packers are with Rodgers as well.

 

Really, isn't that telling the Wolf/Sherman should have gotten more out of Favre?

 

Kidding, of course. Well, kind of.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

It is merely pent up frustration by fans with rightfully high standards that they have seen the train wreck coming for several years now and voiced quite publicly to no avail.

 

I agree with the decision to let McCarthy go, but stuff like this starts to lose me. I think fans that constantly call for change usually get ignored because they're like the guy at a football watch party that yells 'watch the fake' before every punt.... he's wrong 99% of the time, but he relishes looking like a genious the one time each season he's right.

 

Not every game is lost because of coaching. Not every high draft pick is an all-pro. 31 teams in the NFL finish the year disappointed. The Packers have been on a stretch of success that isn't exceeded by any other franchise except for the Patriots. Yeah, it's time for a fresh start on this staff. But the guys who have been let go over the past 11 months deserve a lot of credit for building and maintaining that success even if their success caused them to be held onto a bit too long.

 

Should they have won more? Maybe. But how many other teams wonder that as well? It's a question with an unprovable answer.

 

Yeah, the roster has deteriorated over the past few seasons. Partially due to aging talent, partially due to bad drafting, partially due to drafting to (correctly, IMO) try and fix the defense at the expense of the offensive talent. Is that McCarthy's fault? Not by himself, certainly not. But just like in 2005, you addressed the issue in the F.O. and gave the coach a year to stay on and it ended up not working out. With a new face in the F.O., as with Thompson, this offseason is likely to put more of Gute's stamp on the direction of the franchise than the 1st did. Time for a fresh start with a new face on the sideline.

 

I only hope it works out as well or better this time as it did in '05... with us in the NFC Championship game two seasons later.

 

What rubs me the wrong way is the party as if McCarthy is intentionally losing games. It's a hard sport, and they won a lot of games. This idea that the fans are entitled to glorious winning really turns me off. You only see it with the Packers in WI; I get that success can spoil people. But they're going to have periods where they aren't very good.

 

Wanting what's best for the team is a far cry from having such strong animosity toward a guy that had a million times more invested in it than any fan.

 

I have to admit again, there's a piece of me that feels like the fans deserve a decade or two of losing again. I don't want the franchise to see bad times, but I feel like I'm reconciling that with how annoying the fans are.

[pacopete4]

OldSchoolSnapper, you're nailing it today. My thoughts exactly.

[MrTPlush]

I don't really blame McCarthy for the overall failure we have seen. Once again we are talking about a guy who won a Super Bowl and minus a Bostick coached us to another one. I am not sure McCarthy is killing the offense, but he certainly is doing nothing to take it above and beyond. It is one of those situations where McCarthy is doing what is expected at best...time to go see if they can find someone to get more out of the players than their talent shows etc. or be more creative.

[adambr2]

I get that they make the big bucks and it's part of the territory and all that, but it is pretty gross to me that people can be so ecstatic about a guy getting fired in such a bold way. Just caught some radio on my way in and my FB feed, just settle down people. Have a little dignity.

 

I have to admit, a small part of me is already thinking about McCarthy coaching somewhere else putting up 45 on the Packers next year. A piece of me would enjoy some part of that.

 

This post is perfect. It fits all of what I felt last night and today.

 

You guys are taking this way more personally for Mike McCarthy than I'm sure Mike McCarthy is. I wish McCarthy the best for sure, but no way would I enjoy seeing his new team put up 45 on mine. Everywhere else, sure, I wish him success. And yeah, there's no need tor for people to get excited about a guy getting fired but yes, it does come with the territory.

 

McCarthy in no way was mistreated, he was given a very long tenure and I highly doubt he feels any ill will or need to stick it to the Packers like some seem to feel he should. Sometimes, things just run their course and that's okay. It happened with Andy Reid in Philadelphia. Now they've won a Super Bowl and Reid has been very successful in Kansas City. Hopefully it will work out equally well for both sides here.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Sorry, but if McCarthy winds up coaching another team and they play the Packers, there is no way way he will not take extra pleasure in putting 40 points on them. I don't care what he publicly says.

 

I'm not taking it personally nor do I think he is...it's the fans that I would enjoy seeing knocked down a peg or two.

 

In fact, use of the word "personally" is a bit funny, since that is exactly what I would say about most of the fans. They seem to take this all very personally and have made an enemy of a good man who by all accounts worked his tail off and failed. There's nothing wrong with "It wasn't working out any longer," but a lot of the vitriol has gone way, way beyond that.

[xisxisxis]

Though true, didn't the 49ers only go 1-0 with Young, the 2nd of the two HOF QB's? That's where the Packers are with Rodgers as well.

 

Really, isn't that telling the Wolf/Sherman should have gotten more out of Favre?

 

Kidding, of course. Well, kind of.

The comparison isn’t perfect. For one thing Montana was the starter for 10.5 years and Young for 8 (they had much more overlap than Favre/Rodgers as Young only began starting in his age 30 season plus he was in Tampa for 2 years). In 5 years we’ll have 30 years of packer HOF QB compared to 18.5 years of Niners. I’m not inspired that they will be back in the super bowl for the next couple of years so we shall see where the Packers end up in comparison.

 

I’m one of those who remembers the bad years as that was most of my first 30 years of life. The packers from the 70’s to early 90s were the lions of that period. I understand the argument that many current fans whine about every decision, that often comes with prolonged success. The other problem with a team that’s been successful for as long as the current packers is that lost in the winning is an over abundance of bad coaching. The winning masks the underperformance. I can’t prove that McCarthy was a problem with the Net results for the last 13 years because it’s a complicated exercise with a lot of variables, but I sure as heck can see the ultimate return (super bowl appearances) is not what it should be given the talent. McCarthy had 13 years to show it was just bad luck and he’ll leave without showing that. It will be fun to see how he performs at his next gig. For his sake he should find a team with a lot of untapped talent to make him look good.

[FVBrewerFan]

What rubs me the wrong way is the party as if McCarthy is intentionally losing games. It's a hard sport, and they won a lot of games. This idea that the fans are entitled to glorious winning really turns me off. You only see it with the Packers in WI; I get that success can spoil people. But they're going to have periods where they aren't very good.

 

Wanting what's best for the team is a far cry from having such strong animosity toward a guy that had a million times more invested in it than any fan.

 

I have to admit again, there's a piece of me that feels like the fans deserve a decade or two of losing again. I don't want the franchise to see bad times, but I feel like I'm reconciling that with how annoying the fans are.

 

You've said similar things before, and I don't understand it. You don't think fans of lots other franchises in various sports expect to win? That's ONLY Packer fans?

 

Seems like a bit of a strawman argument. I think the vast majority of Packer fans DID expect this team to make it to more than one SB over this long TT/MM era. I think that was a reasonable expectation. Losing multiple times at home in the playoffs and blowing the game at Seattle lands on the HC. Is he 100% responsible? Of course not. But you also can't say he doesn't deserve any of the blame. Packer fans are no different than any other fans. A coach becomes unpopular, everyone piles on.

 

As I said earlier, I agree there's no need to be gleeful about it either. But some fans that wanted him gone are openly gloating about it, and that's fine with me too. It is a sport, and fans are allowed to get excited about these things. I don't feel sorry for MM. The man has a SB ring, a street named after him, millions of dollars, and will coach again.

[LouisEly]

In fact, use of the word "personally" is a bit funny, since that is exactly what I would say about most of the fans. They seem to take this all very personally and have made an enemy of a good man who by all accounts worked his tail off and failed. There's nothing wrong with "It wasn't working out any longer," but a lot of the vitriol has gone way, way beyond that.

You see this in college football too, and we're seeing a little of it with the Badgers and Chryst right now.

 

I think most of the "fans" who are taking this personally are like the "fans" who take college football personally and are just the people who cling to a sports team because they have nothing else worthwhile in their lives. Like how a vast majority of people who take college football personally or talk crap about other teams/to other team's fans are people who never went to that university to begin with.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

What rubs me the wrong way is the party as if McCarthy is intentionally losing games. It's a hard sport, and they won a lot of games. This idea that the fans are entitled to glorious winning really turns me off. You only see it with the Packers in WI; I get that success can spoil people. But they're going to have periods where they aren't very good.

 

Wanting what's best for the team is a far cry from having such strong animosity toward a guy that had a million times more invested in it than any fan.

 

I have to admit again, there's a piece of me that feels like the fans deserve a decade or two of losing again. I don't want the franchise to see bad times, but I feel like I'm reconciling that with how annoying the fans are.

 

You've said similar things before, and I don't understand it. You don't think fans of lots other franchises in various sports expect to win? That's ONLY Packer fans?

 

Seems like a bit of a strawman argument. I think the vast majority of Packer fans DID expect this team to make it to more than one SB over this long TT/MM era. I think that was a reasonable expectation. Losing multiple times at home in the playoffs and blowing the game at Seattle lands on the HC. Is he 100% responsible? Of course not. But you also can't say he doesn't deserve any of the blame. Packer fans are no different than any other fans. A coach becomes unpopular, everyone piles on.

 

As I said earlier, I agree there's no need to be gleeful about it either. But some fans that wanted him gone are openly gloating about it, and that's fine with me too. It is a sport, and fans are allowed to get excited about these things. I don't feel sorry for MM. The man has a SB ring, a street named after him, millions of dollars, and will coach again.

 

 

I said only Packers fans in WI. Not only Packers fans. The Packers following has more in common with the St. Louis Cardinals than a lot of us would like to admit, and yes many of them do strike me as extremely entitled. One too many of them have taken the "we own the team!" stuff a tad close to the heart.

 

McCarthy worked his rear off and ran his course. He gave the franchise his best for 13 years, that's what the fans deserved.

[homer]

Yes McCarthy worked hard. Yes I think he was a decent coach. Yes I'm glad he's gone. Am I toasting cocktails? No, but I don't really feel sorry for the guy either. He lasted 13 years in a job where the average is probably like 3. He was very well compensated and he'll most likely get another head coaching gig.

[FVBrewerFan]

What rubs me the wrong way is the party as if McCarthy is intentionally losing games. It's a hard sport, and they won a lot of games. This idea that the fans are entitled to glorious winning really turns me off. You only see it with the Packers in WI; I get that success can spoil people. But they're going to have periods where they aren't very good.

 

Wanting what's best for the team is a far cry from having such strong animosity toward a guy that had a million times more invested in it than any fan.

 

I have to admit again, there's a piece of me that feels like the fans deserve a decade or two of losing again. I don't want the franchise to see bad times, but I feel like I'm reconciling that with how annoying the fans are.

 

You've said similar things before, and I don't understand it. You don't think fans of lots other franchises in various sports expect to win? That's ONLY Packer fans?

 

Seems like a bit of a strawman argument. I think the vast majority of Packer fans DID expect this team to make it to more than one SB over this long TT/MM era. I think that was a reasonable expectation. Losing multiple times at home in the playoffs and blowing the game at Seattle lands on the HC. Is he 100% responsible? Of course not. But you also can't say he doesn't deserve any of the blame. Packer fans are no different than any other fans. A coach becomes unpopular, everyone piles on.

 

As I said earlier, I agree there's no need to be gleeful about it either. But some fans that wanted him gone are openly gloating about it, and that's fine with me too. It is a sport, and fans are allowed to get excited about these things. I don't feel sorry for MM. The man has a SB ring, a street named after him, millions of dollars, and will coach again.

 

 

I said only Packers fans in WI. Not only Packers fans. The Packers following has more in common with the St. Louis Cardinals than a lot of us would like to admit, and yes many of them do strike me as extremely entitled. One too many of them have taken the "we own the team!" stuff a tad close to the heart.

 

McCarthy worked his rear off and ran his course. He gave the franchise his best for 13 years, that's what the fans deserved.

 

He worked hard? Super. Everyone works hard. With all the talent they had and Rodgers in his prime, they should have had been in the big dance more than once. Deserves got nothing to do with it. I do agree the fans who use the "Im an Owner" thing is both funny yet irritating.

[lcbj68c]

The "Rodgers prime" is such a poor argument. No one player should get any coach or organization to any number of Super Bowls. HOF QB or not. It takes 53+

[OldSchoolSnapper]

OK, but me saying he worked hard was not some kind of attempt at saying he shouldn't be fired. He was not a good fit for GBP anymore, the end. I also agree the Rodgers prime stuff is played out. They were in position numerous times to be in the Super Bowl and player execution was a huge reason it didn't happen. I refuse to pin the 2014 NFCCG on McCarthy.

 

This roster has very likely been extremely overrated for a long time. McCarthy was as sick of TT's lack of aggressiveness as anybody. Plenty of blame to go around from to TT to MM to DC to AR.

 

Basically no other team has multiple titles recently other than NE. The Packers have been very similar to PIT and NO. Nothing was "wasted," they were competing with the league's elite for the last decade.

[adambr2]

I pin the 2014-15 NFCCG on Burnett, Peppers, Bostick, and to a lesser extent, HHCD.

 

Everyone else is pretty secondary IMO.

[homer]

McCarthy went into turtle mode in that NFCCG with the play calling. He's not solely responsible because a lot of that was just bad luck but he didn't help.

[MrTPlush]

I pin the 2014-15 NFCCG on Burnett, Peppers, Bostick, and to a lesser extent, HHCD.

 

Everyone else is pretty secondary IMO.

 

It was all on Bostick. You recover the kick and the game is essentially over. He didn't block, muffed the kick, and the guy he was suppose to block got it. That was a simple recovery if he just blocks. I guess, sure, you could say the Seahawks would have still had time had they stopped the Packers on the ensuing drive...but that would have been quite a feat. Even a punting drive likely pins the Seahawks at their own 10-15 yard line with 60 seconds left. With no timeouts? Good luck, chances are the Packers just get the 1st they needed.

 

Though if you are also referring to HHCD due to the 2pt conversion…that was pretty brutal too.

 

Regardless the point is McCarthy coached them to that Super Bowl in my opinion.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Sorry, but if McCarthy winds up coaching another team and they play the Packers, there is no way way he will not take extra pleasure in putting 40 points on them. I don't care what he publicly says.

 

Given the fact that the Packers haven't scored 40 in a game since the 2014 season, recent history suggests a McCarthy-led team scoring 40 on anyone would be a shock. Sure, it's human nature for a guy to want to win big against a former team no matter what kind of a former relationship they had or how things ended...but the fact he's had one of the best 10 QBs in the history of the game for his entire 13 year coaching tenure (Favre, Rodgers) and hasn't had an offensive output over 40 points in 4 full seasons says alot more about why he was fired than anything.

 

IMO, McCarthy's biggest weakness as a coach is in-game management - he constantly seemed to lean heavily on a defense that was basically never the team's strength to close out games or even halves, particularly in the postseason. The only postseason it worked was the 2010 super bowl run when they actually had a solid defense. Go up 14-0 against the bears in the NFC title game, then go into an offensive shell and manage to win by only a touchdown that was provided by a BJ Raji INT return. Go up 16-0 against the seahawks in 2014, passing up several early game 4th and goal situations to completely step on their necks, only to watch the Seahawks battle back with a slew of crazy plays aided by over-conservative/bone-headed decisions (on-field by players and coaching). Countless games burning 1st half TOs to try and get the ball back one more time to score before the half, only to see the opponent convert or make a big play on a bad defense and wind up scoring themselves when they would have been content letting time run out. Stupid challenge calls and even more stupid passes at challenging plays.

 

There were several years where injuries and schedule forced McCarthy squads to "coach up" whoever they could drag in off the street or off the practice squad, and he seemed to do a good job at having his teams prepared to play. However, that has even seemed to wane in recent years.

 

I'm sure McCarthy will get another opportunity to coach in the NFL if he wants it - I really wonder if he'll be able to come close to replicating the success he had with the Packers unless he's given a HOF-caliber QB to work with.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

40 points was hyperbole, I didn't actually mean they'd have to score 40 points. Can we read between the lines a little here? The point is that I don't believe McCarthy won't take extra joy in beating GB.

 

As far as the 2014 NFCCG, turtle mode was the correct mode. The slide down after the pick, IMO, was worse than Bostick. I don't remember who that was, Burnett? He had a pasture in front of him and goes down at the behest of Peppers with five minutes left in the game. That's a play you make with 45 seconds left. Not 5 minutes.

 

McCarthy's turtle calls were supposed to do nothing but milk timeouts off the board which they did. The players lost that game in an appalling display of melt. Remember that was a game almost NOBODY had them winning and they dominated it for 57 minutes or so.

[tmwiese55]

Yea I remember jumping out of my seat complaining the second he slid down on that interception. Sure I wouldn't say I predicted what happened to happen, but that was absolutely boneheaded by a 15 plus year vet in Peppers. If they run that back and take the almost gimmy FG the game is over. Couldn't believe someone was dumb enough to make that play in a non kneel down situation.

 

And when bashing playcalling, don't forget that was the year Rodgers was playing with the bad calf muscle and was immobile.

[Fear The Chorizo]

40 points was hyperbole, I didn't actually mean they'd have to score 40 points. Can we read between the lines a little here? The point is that I don't believe McCarthy won't take extra joy in beating GB.

 

As far as the 2014 NFCCG, turtle mode was the correct mode. The slide down after the pick, IMO, was worse than Bostick. I don't remember who that was, Burnett? He had a pasture in front of him and goes down at the behest of Peppers with five minutes left in the game. That's a play you make with 45 seconds left. Not 5 minutes.

 

McCarthy's turtle calls were supposed to do nothing but milk timeouts off the board which they did. The players lost that game in an appalling display of melt. Remember that was a game almost NOBODY had them winning and they dominated it for 57 minutes or so.

 

I agree with your hyperbole, but understand my point that as an offensive coach, McCarthy's offenses haven't been consistently elite for several years - I don't worry about their performance in games Rodgers missed due to injury, although McCarthy's failure as a whole to have a viable backup QB option since Flynn's departure in 2011 is a ding on him as well. If it takes 53, part of the blame for recent woes falls on McCarthy and Packer personnel people for Hundley not being what they thought he was last season. If the team was scoring at a rate normally expected from a team with a HOF-caliber qb in today's game, this season would have wound up much differently and he'd still be coaching the Packers.

 

All the plays you mentioned from the 2014 NFCCG are absolutely true. That was an epic collapse, and blame for that no matter how undeserved ultimately falls on the coach's shoulders. Turtle calls to get timeouts off the board are great, but when you are dominating a game like you indicated, why even give them a prayer when you could make an aggressive call or two to earn a 1st down and end the game without relying on a tiring defense to make a stop? Opting for 6 points via two field goals from the 1 and 2 yard line to open a game almost NOBODY game them a chance to win was a failure by a passive coaching strategy. That failed passive coaching strategy carried through the course of the entire game and gave the Seahawks more opportunities than they deserved to beat the better team that day.

[tmwiese55]

I've often brought up on this topic over the years that the offense has rarely if ever been the issue, and obviously that's MM area of focus. Yes I know he's HC so also responsible for the D, but you know what I'm getting at. So in spite of nitpicks or things I'd have rather they done better at, or simply thinking "with Rodgers the O should be even better" they still usually graded out well on the offensive side (MM's area). Really besides this year and 15 the offense has been very good.

 

2017: Rodgers out so whatever

2016: 4th in PTs, 8th in YDs

2015: 15 and 23. I was surprised here, Rodgers played that whole year I think (guessing that's Nelson injury year?)

2014: 1st and 6th

2013: 8th and 3rd

2012: 5th and 13th