2018 Green Bay Packers Season Thread: 6-9-1: Mike McCarthy Fired, Philbin Interim HC

[LouisEly]

I think they weighed the likelihood of getting the call vs. losing the timeout and decided it wasn't worth it. Not sure I disagree as we probably allow a TD anyway and this time we have a solid 5 minutes to score. Maybe too much time to score.

 

The replay showed it was an obvious incompletion - what makes McCarthy's non-challenge even worse was somebody was dinged up on that play so they had even more time than normal to look at replays before throwing the red flag on the field.

IIRC, it took a while before they found a camera angle that showed that the ball came loose - not until after the next play. The replays that they showed on TV initially were blocked by players on the sideline (great camera work, almost as bad as the New England game). I don't know that McCarthy had that angle - I think he had to guess and had no solid evidence that it came loose.

 

If someone still has the game on their DVR (I deleted it right away), it would be nice to confirm/deny that.

[LouisEly]

Punting on 4th and 2 was so dumb. McCarthy needs to go. Kinda glad they lost....tank the season and get rid of him and bring in a guy that can at least manage timeouts.

They were inside their own 35 yard line - you don't make it, you likely give up points. Scott then hit a 67 yard punt (why they drafted him - six punts for 47 yard average, zero returns).

 

However, it is kind of foolish to expect your defense to stop the #1 rushing attack when you are without Daniels and Clark. And Wilson ALWAYS keeps in on one of the RPO plays at the end of games to seal it. Every. Time.

[homer]

Regardless, it was a huge play that would have been 4th down had it been reversed instead of a 30+ yard gain (or whatever it was). Even with only one timeout it still should have been challenged...and only having one timeout was probably the reason he didn't do it. Also only having one timeout is infuriating as it stems solely from the fact that they can't get plays in fast enough.

[homer]

Punting on 4th and 2 was so dumb. McCarthy needs to go. Kinda glad they lost....tank the season and get rid of him and bring in a guy that can at least manage timeouts.

They were inside their own 35 yard line - you don't make it, you likely give up points. Scott then hit a 67 yard punt (why they drafted him - six punts for 47 yard average, zero returns).

 

However, it is kind of foolish to expect your defense to stop the #1 rushing attack when you are without Daniels and Clark. And Wilson ALWAYS keeps in on one of the RPO plays at the end of games to seal it. Every. Time.

 

They only had one timeout. They couldn't stop the clock.

[LouisEly]

They're not even close to eliminated yet, though. So a Kumerow move like that would basically be McCarthy firing himself if it didn't work. I'm not high on the Packers, but if they beat Minnesota it's right back to the hunt.

Who else are they going to bring back off of IR? Wilkerson, Ryan, and Allison are out for the year. They get to bring back one more player off of IR - why not see if Kumerow is anything?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

They're not even close to eliminated yet, though. So a Kumerow move like that would basically be McCarthy firing himself if it didn't work. I'm not high on the Packers, but if they beat Minnesota it's right back to the hunt.

Who else are they going to bring back off of IR? Wilkerson, Ryan, and Allison are out for the year. They get to bring back one more player off of IR - why not see if Kumerow is anything?

 

I'm not sure if Kyle Murphy could be brought back or not. Offensive line depth might make sense. They might be holding the spot, too, for someone yet to get injured (or one who was hurt yesterday - Graham?) to be activated should the team make the playoffs.

[pacopete4]

I knew I'd get grief for my take, and that is fine. It is just of my own opinion that Rodgers is a bigger root to our offensive problems than a lot of people will ever say. I think McCarthy would love to say it but knows that it wouldn't go over well with 90% of the fanbase, because well, he is Aaron Rodgers. I think the Twitter world is starting to catch it, which is good. He has people open. He has easier passes to complete. He almost refuses to play within a system. I don't care if he is frustrated. He is costing us chances to win football games. He plays hero ball. His schtick has gotten extremely old to me. If people want to just ignore his arrogance because he happens to be a great football player, that's fine with me but I'm pretty much over him which his attitude and sloppy play.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think there's some truth to it, but it's because of how Rodgers plays, not because he isn't coachable or is being a baby. That sounds like a frustrated fan whining. Rodgers delivery looks nothing like it did when he came into the league. That doesn't happen to a guy that's not coachable. Is he arrogant to a degree? Yeah, I definitely think he is. Most great players are. I don't buy Brady's humility schtick either; the guy loves himself.

 

Rodgers has always been one to forgo the play right in front of him to use his arm to chuck it downfield. Nobody really cares when they are winning divisions. He has been going "P" in the RPO way too often for years, but he's #12 so nobody really cares.

 

I just think it's a little revisionist to enjoy it and then when the team is having a down year get really hyperbolic with criticizing him, that's all. I went back to the pre-season thread for reference, and you were pretty much Camp Rodgers during the summer.

 

They have plenty of problems, people Tweeting screen shots of open RBs in the flat just get tiresome for me. It's selectiveness at its worst. You can screen grab plays of open guys with every QB, every game of every year. When other things get shored up Rodgers will be just fine. He's the least of my concerns.

[homer]

I mean the best QB's miss open guys every once in a while. The troubling thing to me is how inaccurate he's been. He was pretty average for a lot of 2016 too and then turned it around. I'm not sure how much has to do with lack of trust with the new receivers or what.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

We have to keep in mind we're talking about a player grading 90 on PFF, top 5 in his position, completing over 60% of his passes, 20 TDs and 1 INT.

 

I am not saying he should be absolved of criticism at all; it's valid. He's not been sharp. I said last night this is the worst I think he's looked in a long time. But we're basically criticizing the fact that he's been unable to be heroic and save a mediocre team from itself. While at the same time criticizing him for playing hero ball.

 

I think the frustration is setting in and people are just pointing fingers wherever something sticks.

[Samurai Bucky]

There are two things that should happen.

 

First, Rodgers needs to check down to his running back more often. Also, the short, quick passes seal the deal.

 

Next, McCarthy is probably gone. Hire the Offensive Coordinator from the Patriots.

[pacopete4]

Talk negative about Rodgers and you are a fan whining. Post about firing a head coach and all is good. It is not that I do not think Rodgers is a great QB or that I don't believe he can win another Super Bowl, so being in "Camp Rodgers" really has nothing to do with anything I have said about this season and him. I believe Rodgers was very coachable in the beginning and he has gotten too big for his britches. It does happen to a lot of the great players. It doesn't mean I should ignore it and just say, well the next head coach will get him on track. Rodgers is a huge reason our run game doesn't get on track. Rodgers is a huge reason for why a lot of our drives are stalling out. His attitude and body language have been about as bad as it gets this season. It's gross to me.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think you're being a little sensitive about it. There's a big difference between valid critiques of Rodgers poor play and calling him a baby and flat out saying you want a new coach to come in and fail and lose a bunch of games to show how un-coachable Rodgers is.

 

C'mon. You knew the reaction that over-the-top statement was going to get. And yeah, it was whiney.

 

You're really gonna tell use the "I can't criticize them" line on me? I've criticized the Packers more than anybody here.

 

The body language thing is tired. That is Exhibit A of nonsense that only bothers people when you're losing. Brady has screamed at guys for years. Rodgers has too. When you are losing, it's "negative body language," when you win, it's "Boy, he just loves to compete! He expects so much of the guys!"

[RollieTime]

I was unable to watch the game, but watching the highlights showed the same exact issue we have had for years: The offensive line’s poor pass blocking and the pocket collapsing before Rodgers even drops back and is able to go through his entire progression. I know that our line has been rated highly some seasons, but that is strictly because Rodgers is a magician that avoids three tackles and rolls out. Him being able to hold the ball for 7 seconds and showing that “he has all day” to throw isn’t because of his fantastic offensive line that seems to get the credit. It’s because he is absolutely ridiculous at avoiding tacklers and escaping the pocket. How can he possibly see the open receiver when a 6’4” lineman is free running straight at him? Rodgers needs to avoid him, sometimes multiple guys, roll out, and pick up where the receivers are again and re-evaluate where the corners and safety’s are positioned in regards to the receivers and then making the pass. Rodgers needs his line to block for him and I don’t see Rodgers calling them out for their lack of protection.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

One thing Brady has always done far better than Rodgers is actually use the pocket, probably because he can't move, but Brady is the best I have ever seen at sitting there until the last possible millisecond, sometimes getting drilled, and getting a ball out as quickly as possible with enough time for a play to develop.

 

Rodgers mobility is his crutch, and he starts running around often before he even has to. He's made it work, but if we were more willing at times to take what he has, he wouldn't have to buy 5 seconds with his legs.

 

I agree that his line has never been really tremendous at protecting him.

[LouisEly]

I mean the best QB's miss open guys every once in a while. The troubling thing to me is how inaccurate he's been. He was pretty average for a lot of 2016 too and then turned it around. I'm not sure how much has to do with lack of trust with the new receivers or what.

Probably a combination of rookie receivers not being on the same page/knowing how to read the defense (like the play where ESB was open over the middle but Rodgers expected him to sit in the zone instead of cross through it) and Rodgers' knee sapping some of his strength. When you have an injury the tendency is to overcompensate for it which often messes up other things.

 

Last night he was 21-30 for 311 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs - that's really good for any QB for a prime-time road game, especially in that environment with only one veteran WR.

[SeaBass]

I don't think Rodgers should be free from criticism. Overall the issues feel, not unimportant, but like things that he can easily make up for when things are going right. But sure, things like taking too many sacks, skewing towards pass in RPO, focusing too long on trying to get the ball down field instead of taking the shorter play and sometimes trying to be too cute with some targeted passes to make them hard to intercept but also making them more difficult to complete.

 

The ball he bounced at the receivers feet on 3rd down right before McCarthy chose to punt in their last possession sticks in my head. Not that it happened but that it's familiar, I've seen him bouncing what seem like easily completed passes before and I feel it's been happening once or twice a game for several weeks now. Is he just missing the throw or is he trying to throw one of those targeted "safe" passes? Maybe I'm wrong or making it bigger than it is but the point is I've been noticing these ankle level passes especially the last 3 or more games. It's part of what I yell at my TV when I get frustrated.

 

I still think he's an amazing QB, his demeanor on the field doesn't really bother me, probably because I feel frustrated too. Maybe it is a little much for him to show so much negative emotion. I have no doubt that he cares very much about winning football games.

[SeaBass]

There are two things that should happen.

 

First, Rodgers needs to check down to his running back more often. Also, the short, quick passes seal the deal.

 

Next, McCarthy is probably gone. Hire the Offensive Coordinator from the Patriots.

I've been thinking a lot about Josh McDaniels too, ever since the Patriots game a few weeks ago. I admired that they weren't afraid to run some innovated plays on offense. Frankly, he made McCarthy look stale in comparison. There are already rumblings in the media about him being a candidate Green Bay is targeting. I don't think he'd waffle about coming to Green Bay like he did Indianapolis. The Packers HC job has to be seen as one of the best jobs in the sport.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I mean the best QB's miss open guys every once in a while. The troubling thing to me is how inaccurate he's been. He was pretty average for a lot of 2016 too and then turned it around. I'm not sure how much has to do with lack of trust with the new receivers or what.

Probably a combination of rookie receivers not being on the same page/knowing how to read the defense (like the play where ESB was open over the middle but Rodgers expected him to sit in the zone instead of cross through it) and Rodgers' knee sapping some of his strength. When you have an injury the tendency is to overcompensate for it which often messes up other things.

 

Last night he was 21-30 for 311 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs - that's really good for any QB for a prime-time road game, especially in that environment with only one veteran WR.

 

Rodgers played a very solid game considering the pressure he was under all night. He made several throws/plays that only he and perhaps a couple of other people on the planet can make. There were a few plays where he wasn't quite able to avoid the rush and pick up huge chunks running that I'm sure a combination of his knee issue and father time cost him last night, also. The bad pass on that critical 3rd down looked to be a footwork problem, which I think he's gotten lazy with due to his arm talent - Favre did the same thing at roughly the same stage in his career, and his career resurgence started with McCarthy trying to get him back to better throwing mechanics. The talent is still there, but Rodgers has gotten a bit inconsistent and probably could use a fresh coaching perspective to refocus him. Still a 19-1 TD to INT ratio is absurd for a guy who's "struggling".

 

It seems like teams are blitzing the Packers more on plays that by design take a long time to develop, so they're getting home or at least pressuring him so much that the play design crumbles and then he's forced to try and improv with a Adams + a group of young receivers. Unless Rodgers can avoid a free rusher on most of those plays, he's not going to make the opponent pay. That's a recipe for a lot of poor 3rd down conversions, which is what has been a season-long problem. Perhaps there are plays/formations that teams are keying on for blitzes - I keep going back to the last 1.5 quarters against the Bears in game 1 when a 1-legged Rodgers carved up a Bears' D with essentially a sugar huddle and 4-5 wide receiver sets. I get the need to run, particularly with Jones playing great - but why not continue using that desperation/short passing game approach as the backbone of a game plan if it works? It would definitely curtail the blitz-heavy defensive schemes if more slants and short crossing routes were run that can just gouge blitzes.

[young guns]

I think they weighed the likelihood of getting the call vs. losing the timeout and decided it wasn't worth it. Not sure I disagree as we probably allow a TD anyway and this time we have a solid 5 minutes to score. Maybe too much time to score.

 

The replay showed it was an obvious incompletion - what makes McCarthy's non-challenge even worse was somebody was dinged up on that play so they had even more time than normal to look at replays before throwing the red flag on the field.

IIRC, it took a while before they found a camera angle that showed that the ball came loose - not until after the next play. The replays that they showed on TV initially were blocked by players on the sideline (great camera work, almost as bad as the New England game). I don't know that McCarthy had that angle - I think he had to guess and had no solid evidence that it came loose.

 

If someone still has the game on their DVR (I deleted it right away), it would be nice to confirm/deny that.

I just checked because that was my memory as well. They showed a replay that showed it hitting the ground twice before the next play, but they were either full speed or barely slowed down and not zoomed in. What effected my memory I think is that neither buck nor mailman saw anything either and were basically saying I don't see anything wrong with any of those replays so it shouldn't be overturned. They brought in Pereira and he flat out said that's not a catch but it was right before the snap. It want till 2 plays later that we got the super slow zoomed in look of it hitting the ground.

 

I don't know what the teams get to look at to decide, but frankly there was probably enough from the broadcast to call for a review and if they are able to go through different views at slow speeds on their own then there is no excuse for that not being reviewed and probably comes down to either McCarthy not trusting whoever or being too chicken.

[MrTPlush]

Doesn’t Josh McDaniels want to be with the Patriots? I faintly remember him going there and not care for head coach jobs.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The likely true rumor is that McDaniels gets Belichick's job when he leaves.

 

But if you're him, are you really going to postpone a HC job for years just to get it when Brady is done playing? I mean, why?

[young guns]

I have no interest in mcdaniels. He accepted and then backed out of the Colts job this past offseason. Just feel meh towards him.

[nodakfan17]

I wouldn’t touch McDaniels, given his history.

 

I’d prefer John Harbough, assuming he gets let go from Baltimore. Personally, I want to be certain that the next coach is capable of winning a Super Bowl. Lincoln Riley is also on top of my wishlist, but I think Oklahoma pays up to keep him.

[homer]

Watching New Orleans.....Drew Brees takes three steps, sets, and throws the ball. Literally every single time.