Brewers acquire Curtis Granderson for CF Demi Orimoloye

[Outlander]

Probably more disappointed in losing Thompson than Demi O as he still has an option and would have liked to see what the Brewers could do with him. Imagine some crap team picks him up and pitches him in September. Brooks is pushing 30 and out of options so no big deal there.

[jonescm128]

Why does Wilkerson deserve a spot on the 40-man?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Why does Wilkerson deserve a spot on the 40-man?

 

Rotation depth. Probably redundant now, though, with Gonzalez and Davies coming back. I'm sure he's next on the list.

[brewcrewrule28]

Granderson has been noticeably worse defensively than Thames this year so let's stop this narrative.

[jerichoholicninja]

I'm not really going to pay attention to defensive stats for a single season if we're comparing a 1B pretending to be an outfielder to a guy who's played outfield his whole life. I'm sure Grandy has lost speed since his heyday but he can still read a flyball, which Thames is very questionable at doing.

[brewcrewrule28]

So we should ignore the stats are trust all the Granderson OF play you've watched this year?

[coolhandluke121]

I'm not really going to pay attention to defensive stats for a single season if we're comparing a 1B pretending to be an outfielder to a guy who's played outfield his whole life. I'm sure Grandy has lost speed since his heyday but he can still read a flyball, which Thames is very questionable at doing.

 

I would add that the Brewers make sure Thames gets most of his OF starts when they're playing in a small ballpark, and they put him in LF or RF depending on which one requires less range in each park. Do the Blue Jay's do that for Granderson? I doubt it.

 

Also, Thames has elite CF defense next to him, compensating for his lack of range. I don't know everything that goes into the advanced stats, but I doubt it covers this. I'm guessing it's mostly about putouts per opportunity compared to league average, which doesn't account for Granderson's stats being hurt by flyballs that might make it out of Miller Park or be caught by Cain/Broxton and thus mitigate the damage to Thames' dWAR.

 

This is probably a case where conventional wisdom should make you scrutinize the limitations of advanced stats and not the other way around. And Granderson's stats probably translate to roughly an .825 OPS at Miller Park.

[KeithStone53151]

Lol. Good thing we got Cedeno, he can replace Josh Hader on the postseason roster.....This guy over here.....

 

Cedeno has been statistically better and more reliably healthy than Hader this year?

 

That should have been blue, more of a response to the guy thinking Thames deserves a playoff roster spot over braun

[HarveysWBs]

So we should ignore the stats are trust all the Granderson OF play you've watched this year?

 

I’m not sure anyone is going to claim Granderson resembles his old self at all, but let’s take the numbers with a grain of salt. Granderson has nearly twice as many OF innings as Thames this year, and true, his UZR is twice as bad. But consider, the Crew is clearly doing what it can to protect Thames in the field by being selective in his use (and while I haven’t studied their defensive alignments, it wouldn’t shock me if Cain is shaded his direction a bit with a better defender in Yelich on the other side).

 

In the end, I’m not sure I can reasonably say who is a worse defender at this point, but I’m reasonably sure of two things: Granderson isn’t great, and Thames is not suddenly the best OF defender he’s ever been at nearly 32 years old, as some of his unalloyed numbers seem to suggest. Neither is a great option in the field, and we should hope they don’t have to play meaningful defensive innings.

 

EDIT: I composed this while others posted similar arguments. I did not intend to pile on.

[coolhandluke121]

So we should ignore the stats are trust all the Granderson OF play you've watched this year?

 

I’m not sure anyone is going to claim Granderson resembles his old self at all, but let’s take the numbers with a grain of salt. Granderson has nearly twice as many OF innings as Thames this year, and true, his UZR is twice as bad. But consider, the Crew is clearly doing what it can to protect Thames in the field by being selective in his use (and while I haven’t studied their defensive alignments, it wouldn’t shock me if Cain is shaded his direction a bit with a better defender in Yelich on the other side).

 

In the end, I’m not sure I can reasonably say who is a worse defender at this point, but I’m reasonably sure of two things: Granderson isn’t great, and Thames is not suddenly the best OF defender he’s ever been at nearly 32 years old, as some of his unalloyed numbers seem to suggest. Neither is a great option in the field, and we should hope they don’t have to play meaningful defensive innings.

 

EDIT: I composed this while others posted similar arguments. I did not intend to pile on.

 

Great post. Truly superb. :-)

[HarveysWBs]

So we should ignore the stats are trust all the Granderson OF play you've watched this year?

 

I’m not sure anyone is going to claim Granderson resembles his old self at all, but let’s take the numbers with a grain of salt. Granderson has nearly twice as many OF innings as Thames this year, and true, his UZR is twice as bad. But consider, the Crew is clearly doing what it can to protect Thames in the field by being selective in his use (and while I haven’t studied their defensive alignments, it wouldn’t shock me if Cain is shaded his direction a bit with a better defender in Yelich on the other side).

 

In the end, I’m not sure I can reasonably say who is a worse defender at this point, but I’m reasonably sure of two things: Granderson isn’t great, and Thames is not suddenly the best OF defender he’s ever been at nearly 32 years old, as some of his unalloyed numbers seem to suggest. Neither is a great option in the field, and we should hope they don’t have to play meaningful defensive innings.

 

EDIT: I composed this while others posted similar arguments. I did not intend to pile on.

 

Great post. Truly superb. :-)

 

Tip of the cap to your analysis as well. Couldn’t have said it better.

[torts]

They didn't trade for Curtis for his defense

[nate82]

Lol. Good thing we got Cedeno, he can replace Josh Hader on the postseason roster.....This guy over here.....

 

Cedeno has been statistically better and more reliably healthy than Hader this year?

 

That should have been blue, more of a response to the guy thinking Thames deserves a playoff roster spot over braun

 

OK lets see here Thames has a wRC+ of 103 while Braun has a wRC+ of 94. Yeah having Thames over Braun in the playoffs would be a bad idea. Also Thames has a ISO of .268 which puts him in the elite power hitter category while Braun only has a ISO of .193 which puts him just above average.

 

If you want to go even further Braun has an even lower percentage of hard hit balls at 38.6% while Thames has a 49.3%.

[torts]

Braun is going nowhere, can we move on from that?

[nate82]

Braun is going nowhere, can we move on from that?

 

I didn't say he was going anywhere. If the Brewers had to choose between Braun or Thames on the playoff roster I would choose Thames as he would be the better choice offensively.

[cesser000]

Braun is going nowhere, can we move on from that?

 

Well, at least not till 2021. I'm sure the front office can't wait to exercise that $4 million buyout.

[adambr2]

It wasn't really a discussion of moving on from Braun but rather Braun vs. Thames on the playoff roster. But yeah Braun will be on the playoff roster. I still believe Thames will, too.

[pacopete4]

Weird hill to die on. Thames has been absolute trash. DFA territory trash.

[adambr2]

Weird hill to die on. Thames has been absolute trash. DFA territory trash.

 

Nah, this is way too far the other way IMO. Thames STILL after being absolute trash as you describe has the same OBP, higher OPS and higher WAR than Braun, with more HR despite missing a huge chunk of this season.

 

He's had a rotten August. No doubt. Its one rotten month. Prior to that he was a very useful lefty bat as he was last season as well. He's putting his 2020 option in a lot of doubt, but no reason to throw in the towel on him now.

 

I just find it odd that Nate brings up some good points on Thames quoting his hard hit percentage and ISO that ironically Braun defenders use frequently to support their stance that he (Braun) has been unlucky, not bad, but when the shoe is on the other foot, Nate is quickly dismissed.

[pacopete4]

One is trending up and the other doesn’t have a position, strikes out about 40% of the time and that might be light.

 

I wasn’t saying he should or even would be DFA’d but it won’t take much more of what he’s doing lately for Stearns and co. to get there.

[KeithStone53151]

Braun is going nowhere, can we move on from that?

 

I didn't say he was going anywhere. If the Brewers had to choose between Braun or Thames on the playoff roster I would choose Thames as he would be the better choice offensively.

 

Wow, is this real life. Thames has a 507 OPS since the all-star break. End of discussion. There's a lot of pitchers you'd rather have hit than him right now...to point at season stats is wildly lazy. What he's doing right now is what matters. If Thames improves in September, the discussion changes. That dude is completely lost at the plate right now and I wouldn't be surprised if his playing time is minimal down the stretch.

[KeithStone53151]

Weird hill to die on. Thames has been absolute trash. DFA territory trash.

 

Nah, this is way too far the other way IMO. Thames STILL after being absolute trash as you describe has the same OBP, higher OPS and higher WAR than Braun, with more HR despite missing a huge chunk of this season.

 

He's had a rotten August. No doubt. Its one rotten month. Prior to that he was a very useful lefty bat as he was last season as well. He's putting his 2020 option in a lot of doubt, but no reason to throw in the towel on him now.

 

I just find it odd that Nate brings up some good points on Thames quoting his hard hit percentage and ISO that ironically Braun defenders use frequently to support their stance that he (Braun) has been unlucky, not bad, but when the shoe is on the other foot, Nate is quickly dismissed.

 

Braun is 291/336/485 in the 2nd half, good for 822 ops. Based on the eye test, Braun has looked much better as well. I think Braun is a better option than Aguilar at the moment, though that's definitely debatable. Braun vs Thames is not even remotely debatable right now. Braun is the better choice, it's not close.

[adambr2]

Weird hill to die on. Thames has been absolute trash. DFA territory trash.

 

Nah, this is way too far the other way IMO. Thames STILL after being absolute trash as you describe has the same OBP, higher OPS and higher WAR than Braun, with more HR despite missing a huge chunk of this season.

 

He's had a rotten August. No doubt. Its one rotten month. Prior to that he was a very useful lefty bat as he was last season as well. He's putting his 2020 option in a lot of doubt, but no reason to throw in the towel on him now.

 

I just find it odd that Nate brings up some good points on Thames quoting his hard hit percentage and ISO that ironically Braun defenders use frequently to support their stance that he (Braun) has been unlucky, not bad, but when the shoe is on the other foot, Nate is quickly dismissed.

 

Braun is 291/336/485 in the 2nd half, good for 822 ops. Based on the eye test, Braun has looked much better as well. I think Braun is a better option than Aguilar at the moment, though that's definitely debatable. Braun vs Thames is not even remotely debatable right now. Braun is the better choice, it's not close.

 

That wasn't my stance. I never said Thames is the better choice right now, I just can't understand why in the first half, when people like me said Braun was done, (to which I'd say I was wrong), and other people pointed out that there were signs of optimism in his hard hit contact rate and ISO, are not only dismissing that when it pertains to Thames and calling him DFA territory trash, but exaggerating negative aspects of his performance such as K rate. (It's not 40%).

 

To me, just seems unfair and contradictory. And I don't dispute that Thames looked terrible in August, but he absolutely does have some peripherals in his favor.

[KeithStone53151]

Adam I agree. Its crazy to say he's in dfa territory. And he definitely could heat up and earn a playoff spot. I do think we move on from thames after the season though. Probably via trade. 1b belongs to aguilar

[adambr2]

Adam I agree. Its crazy to say he's in dfa territory. And he definitely could heat up and earn a playoff spot. I do think we move on from thames after the season though. Probably via trade. 1b belongs to aguilar

 

Agreed with all of this, though I don't think it's too far-fetched that he's back next year. Not a great fit anymore though.