Shields or Estrada?

[JohnBriggs12]

Of the starters who may have cleared waivers, the two names that stick out are Marco Estrada and James Shields, both of whom have some value should the Brewers decide they want to add an arm. Shields in particular interests me. Since May 17th, he's gone 7 or more innings in 10 of his starts.

[bill hAll Star]

Of the starters who may have cleared waivers, the two names that stick out are Marco Estrada and James Shields, both of whom have some value should the Brewers decide they want to add an arm. Shields in particular interests me. Since May 17th, he's gone 7 or more innings in 10 of his starts.

 

First, yes, we might need another arm and these guys could fit that need.

 

Again, though, I posted this every time somebody mentions Shields and his innings-eating abilities...

 

The reason Shields goes 7 is because the White Sox are tanking.

 

When the White Sox lead 3-2 and Shields loads the bases in the 6th, he stays in. Also, they have a DH so no worries about that.

 

When the Brewers lead 3-2 with Shields and he loads the bases in the 6th, Counsell is walking out there and bringing in Josh Hader.

 

Other than Peralta, the other guys can all throw 115 pitches and go 7-8 innings if they want to but we are not playing that way. We generally need to pinch hit or bring in a superior reliever if applicable.

 

I wouldn't mind Shields but we also are near the point where we can potentially bullpen ball the rest of the season from the Peralta rotation spot plus Davies should be near a return so I'm not sure it's going to happen.

[KeithStone53151]

I generally agree with bill hall. With all the offdays we'll have down the stretch and September callups coming, eating innings shouldn't be a major concern. Quality innings should be a much greater concern, and I'm not sure Shields or Estrada will provide better quality innings than guys like Woodruff or Houser.

 

On a similar note, all the off days coming make it that much stupider that CC has put Jeffress/Hader in a box and won't use these guys to try and keep deficits close and give the offense a better chance to come back.

[bill hAll Star]

I generally agree with bill hall. With all the offdays we'll have down the stretch and September callups coming, eating innings shouldn't be a major concern. Quality innings should be a much greater concern, and I'm not sure Shields or Estrada will provide better quality innings than guys like Woodruff or Houser.

 

On a similar note, all the off days coming make it that much stupider that CC has put Jeffress/Hader in a box and won't use these guys to try and keep deficits close and give the offense a better chance to come back.

 

We might have a bunch of leads in September against lesser competition and (hopefully) playoffs to worry about. It's possible that both of those guys throw 5 innings/week the rest of the way. I wish we'd have pulled Guerra early against the Cubs last week, but several of these other teams...the proof came out and we didn't make the comeback regardless.

[KeithStone53151]

I generally agree with bill hall. With all the offdays we'll have down the stretch and September callups coming, eating innings shouldn't be a major concern. Quality innings should be a much greater concern, and I'm not sure Shields or Estrada will provide better quality innings than guys like Woodruff or Houser.

 

On a similar note, all the off days coming make it that much stupider that CC has put Jeffress/Hader in a box and won't use these guys to try and keep deficits close and give the offense a better chance to come back.

 

We might have a bunch of leads in September against lesser competition and (hopefully) playoffs to worry about. It's possible that both of those guys throw 5 innings/week the rest of the way. I wish we'd have pulled Guerra early against the Cubs last week, but several of these other teams...the proof came out and we didn't make the comeback regardless.

 

I personally believe CC doing something like leaving in Lyles to give up 2 runs after we trim a 3 run deficit to 1 run has a negative affect on the mentality of players. You approach your atbat with a 3 run deficit in the 9th much differently than 1 run. Heck who knows, maybe we can scratch one out if that's all we needed. I admittedly haven't paid as much attention the past week, but I saw that blunder and it was infuriating. That specific move almost seemed like CC was trying to lose...not trying to win.

[tmwiese55]

I'd really just rather go with Woodruff than these guys. With him and Davies back soon plus all the off days you shouldn't need any more blah SP arms.

[bill hAll Star]

I generally agree with bill hall. With all the offdays we'll have down the stretch and September callups coming, eating innings shouldn't be a major concern. Quality innings should be a much greater concern, and I'm not sure Shields or Estrada will provide better quality innings than guys like Woodruff or Houser.

 

On a similar note, all the off days coming make it that much stupider that CC has put Jeffress/Hader in a box and won't use these guys to try and keep deficits close and give the offense a better chance to come back.

 

We might have a bunch of leads in September against lesser competition and (hopefully) playoffs to worry about. It's possible that both of those guys throw 5 innings/week the rest of the way. I wish we'd have pulled Guerra early against the Cubs last week, but several of these other teams...the proof came out and we didn't make the comeback regardless.

 

I personally believe CC doing something like leaving in Lyles to give up 2 runs after we trim a 3 run deficit to 1 run has a negative affect on the mentality of players. You approach your atbat with a 3 run deficit in the 9th much differently than 1 run. Heck who knows, maybe we can scratch one out if that's all we needed. I admittedly haven't paid as much attention the past week, but I saw that blunder and it was infuriating. That specific move almost seemed like CC was trying to lose...not trying to win.

 

It can go both ways, though. I don't really believe the mentality thing much, but even if you do, one can also argue that Counsell pushing more on Jeffress/Hader in August in games to keep the guys "in the game" mentally and hopefully sneak one out could be negative when they're pitching their 90th inning of relief in late September and are running out of gas.

[JohnBriggs12]

I frankly would trust Shields whose been there more than anyone other than Chacn down the stretch. Look at what Hamels is doing for Cubs.

[bill hAll Star]

I frankly would trust Shields whose been there more than anyone other than Chacn down the stretch. Look at what Hamels is doing for Cubs.

 

I could probably find 20 pitchers that haven't "been there" having excellent months down the stretch for contenders.

[KeithStone53151]

I frankly would trust Shields whose been there more than anyone other than Chacn down the stretch. Look at what Hamels is doing for Cubs.

 

I could probably find 20 pitchers that haven't "been there" having excellent months down the stretch for contenders.

 

I see 2 in our rotation, Miley and Chacin...

[MrTPlush]

I frankly would trust Shields whose been there more than anyone other than Chacn down the stretch. Look at what Hamels is doing for Cubs.

 

I could probably find 20 pitchers that haven't "been there" having excellent months down the stretch for contenders.

 

That is why everything is still a big mystery. Terrible players can get hot and carry us...especially starters. Miley has now started 9 games and boosts a 2.18 ERA. WHAT!? We don't need an ace, we just need someone to pitch like one for a few weeks.

 

James Shields could come here, get hot, and be our much needed hero. I wouldn't be too opposed to acquiring Shields and inserting him into Peralta's spot. I don't like Peralta's chances of being a good contributor down the stretch. He has been shaky for awhile and he is officially in unchartered territory with innings pitched in a year.

[LouisEly]

Again, though, I posted this every time somebody mentions Shields and his innings-eating abilities...

 

The reason Shields goes 7 is because the White Sox are tanking.

 

When the White Sox lead 3-2 and Shields loads the bases in the 6th, he stays in. Also, they have a DH so no worries about that.

 

When the Brewers lead 3-2 with Shields and he loads the bases in the 6th, Counsell is walking out there and bringing in Josh Hader.

 

Other than Peralta, the other guys can all throw 115 pitches and go 7-8 innings if they want to but we are not playing that way. We generally need to pinch hit or bring in a superior reliever if applicable.

 

I wouldn't mind Shields but we also are near the point where we can potentially bullpen ball the rest of the season from the Peralta rotation spot plus Davies should be near a return so I'm not sure it's going to happen.

Or we could use data.

 

Pitch count:

1-25: .818 OPS-A; 26-50: .662; 51-75: .673; 76-100: .703; 100+: .929 (n=20 PAs, one HR)

 

Innings 1-3: .730 OPS-A; innings 4-6: .669; innings 7-9: .865

 

1st PA: .785; 2nd PA: .585; 3rd PA: .736

 

So that data suggests that he is good through 100 pitches or 6 innings or three times through the lineup, which is all the Brewers need.

 

Also, in interleague play this year: 3.51 ERA, 1.130 WHIP, .734 OPS-A - and interleague this year is against the NL Central.

 

Shields has been a good - maybe not great, but good - starting pitcher through 6 IP, 100 pitches, and against the NL Central.

[superfly]

Of the starters who may have cleared waivers, the two names that stick out are Marco Estrada and James Shields, both of whom have some value should the Brewers decide they want to add an arm. Shields in particular interests me. Since May 17th, he's gone 7 or more innings in 10 of his starts.

 

First, yes, we might need another arm and these guys could fit that need.

 

Again, though, I posted this every time somebody mentions Shields and his innings-eating abilities...

 

The reason Shields goes 7 is because the White Sox are tanking.

 

When the White Sox lead 3-2 and Shields loads the bases in the 6th, he stays in. Also, they have a DH so no worries about that.

 

When the Brewers lead 3-2 with Shields and he loads the bases in the 6th, Counsell is walking out there and bringing in Josh Hader.

 

 

Say what?

[bill hAll Star]

Again, though, I posted this every time somebody mentions Shields and his innings-eating abilities...

 

The reason Shields goes 7 is because the White Sox are tanking.

 

When the White Sox lead 3-2 and Shields loads the bases in the 6th, he stays in. Also, they have a DH so no worries about that.

 

When the Brewers lead 3-2 with Shields and he loads the bases in the 6th, Counsell is walking out there and bringing in Josh Hader.

 

Other than Peralta, the other guys can all throw 115 pitches and go 7-8 innings if they want to but we are not playing that way. We generally need to pinch hit or bring in a superior reliever if applicable.

 

I wouldn't mind Shields but we also are near the point where we can potentially bullpen ball the rest of the season from the Peralta rotation spot plus Davies should be near a return so I'm not sure it's going to happen.

Or we could use data.

 

Pitch count:

1-25: .818 OPS-A; 26-50: .662; 51-75: .673; 76-100: .703; 100+: .929 (n=20 PAs, one HR)

 

Innings 1-3: .730 OPS-A; innings 4-6: .669; innings 7-9: .865

 

1st PA: .785; 2nd PA: .585; 3rd PA: .736

 

So that data suggests that he is good through 100 pitches or 6 innings or three times through the lineup, which is all the Brewers need.

 

Also, in interleague play this year: 3.51 ERA, 1.130 WHIP, .734 OPS-A - and interleague this year is against the NL Central.

 

Shields has been a good - maybe not great, but good - starting pitcher through 6 IP, 100 pitches, and against the NL Central.

 

Junior Guerra is good the 3rd time around the order and pitches 75-100 as well. (.691 OPS 75-100, .700 OPS 3rd time around).

 

Chase Anderson is good in those situations. (.764 OPS 3rd time around).

 

Yes, Shields can go 6 just like the rest of our rotation (save for Peralta). I would imagine 90% of pitchers in the majors even in this "they're babying the pitch count" and heavy reliever usage era can go 6 innings and 110 pitches if they want to. Many of them that feature a 3rd or 4th pitch aren't that much worse the 3rd time around when they are allowed to go that far.

 

I think you missed my point - the Brewers are going to pull the pitcher regardless if it gets to the 5th and they need to pinch hit or get out of a jam. Just like Guerra or Chacin or anyone else we trot out there, those pitchers are just as good and "innings eater" pitchers as James Shields. We take them out by choice. People are trumpeting Shields as if he is a special beast that can pitch further than Chacin or Guerra. He wouldn't pitch that far on the Brewers unless the game situation presented itself.