Sundays

[adambr2]

I feel like the philosophy has been to win the series, not to sweep the series.

 

When the Brewers clinch the series split or victory prior to Sunday, they choose to rest players for the next series.

 

If someone wanted to look it up, I bet their record on Sundays is a lot better when they need to win to split or win the series.

 

I really don't think that's the case. That would make no sense. Every game counts the same in the standings whether it's a rubber match or for the sweep, the standings go by game victories, not series victories. I've never ever gotten the sense that they've chosen to just throw in the towel and relax for the finale if they've already won the series.

[adambr2]

To elaborate more on that, I think it would be completely negligent of Counsell to have the mentality of just winning a series, not sweeping it.

 

I'm bringing this up again because they were harping about it tonight again on the radio. Just win or split your series and you'll be fine, they said. They used to refer to it as "gravy day" when you've already won the series and are going for a sweep, because another win is just "gravy".

 

I continue to find this mentality to be inexplicable. The only time just winning a series counts just as much as a sweep, is the playoffs. In the regular season, a 3rd game potential sweep against the Giants counts for exactly as much as a rubber game against the Cardinals. If they honestly have the mentality that losing a 3rd game of the series isn't a big deal if you've already won the series, they really are ignoring the basic fact that MLB standings are based on games won, not series won.

 

Yes, in a perfect utopian baseball world, you could win or split every single series and you would be in great shape at the end of the season. In the real baseball world, you're going to have stretches of really bad baseball where you end up doing things like getting swept in a 5 game series in Pittsburgh, and you had better have some really good stretches in there as well where you are sweeping, not just winning series, if you want to be in it at the end of the season.

[jerichoholicninja]

To elaborate more on that, I think it would be completely negligent of Counsell to have the mentality of just winning a series, not sweeping it.

 

I'm bringing this up again because they were harping about it tonight again on the radio. Just win or split your series and you'll be fine, they said. They used to refer to it as "gravy day" when you've already won the series and are going for a sweep, because another win is just "gravy".

 

I continue to find this mentality to be inexplicable. The only time just winning a series counts just as much as a sweep, is the playoffs. In the regular season, a 3rd game potential sweep against the Giants counts for exactly as much as a rubber game against the Cardinals. If they honestly have the mentality that losing a 3rd game of the series isn't a big deal if you've already won the series, they really are ignoring the basic fact that MLB standings are based on games won, not series won.

 

Yes, in a perfect utopian baseball world, you could win or split every single series and you would be in great shape at the end of the season. In the real baseball world, you're going to have stretches of really bad baseball where you end up doing things like getting swept in a 5 game series in Pittsburgh, and you had better have some really good stretches in there as well where you are sweeping, not just winning series, if you want to be in it at the end of the season.

 

It really feels to me like the last few years (even before Counsell took over) that if they won the first two games of a series the starting lineup and general play of the team in the third game was phoning it in. Most of the time that third game is a day game after a night game meaning some guys are going to get a day off but the opposing team is in the same situation and doesn't seem to have the same lackluster play.

[mtrebs]

I feel like the philosophy has been to win the series, not to sweep the series.

 

When the Brewers clinch the series split or victory prior to Sunday, they choose to rest players for the next series.

 

If someone wanted to look it up, I bet their record on Sundays is a lot better when they need to win to split or win the series.

 

I really don't think that's the case. That would make no sense. Every game counts the same in the standings whether it's a rubber match or for the sweep, the standings go by game victories, not series victories. I've never ever gotten the sense that they've chosen to just throw in the towel and relax for the finale if they've already won the series.

 

I’ve thought along the same lines as uwbadgers regards by this. I think it’s not necessarily because they’ve won the first two that they throw in the towel, but instead the third game is often a get-away day as well (which is often a Day game too), so then they rest some starters and end up losing he third game

[adambr2]

Here we go again. 4-15 on Sundays. 19 hits and still lost. New ways to lose each weekend.

[Bobafett89]

We need Domingo back. Domingo wins on sundays!! What a dissapointing loss. 19 hits & 4 walks. The cubs won with like 2 hits. So not winning baseball.

[JosephC]

Brewer hitters have a 0.757 OPS during day games and a 0.684 OPS during night games. The -0.073 is the fifth largest negative in the majors. The Rockies lead in this category, they are OPS'ing 0.785 during night games and only 0.677 during day games. On the other end of the spectrum, the Giants are OPS'ing 0.674 during night games but 0.759 in day games.

 

However, it appears that Brewer pitchers have the exact same problem. The Brewers have a 3.79 ERA in night games but a 4.13 ERA in day games. The -0.34 difference is the sixth largest negative in the majors, nearly mirroring the ranking in the Brewer offense's OPS. Again, the Rockies lead in this category, a respectable 4.32 ERA at night but a poor 5.12 ERA in day games. The Pirates are at the other end of the spectrum, 4.64 ERA at night but a 3.50 ERA in the daytime.

 

The Phillies are also in with the Brewers and Rockies, three teams that seem to both hit and pitch better at night. The Phillies OPS 0.734 in night games but only OPS 0.659 in day games, and have a 3.54 ERA in night games but only a 4.14 ERA in day games. But after looking at all these numbers, the Brewers are really under-achieving in day games. CBS lists their daytime record at 17-30. The Phillies have somehow managed a 22-18 record in the day which is quite remarkable looking at the numbers above (0.659 OPS and 4.14 ERA results in 4 games over .500?...have to assume they've suffered a few blowout losses during the day which has really skewed the numbers). But the Rockies, who are the absolute worst when looking at the numbers, have a 16-24 record during the day. They are 8 games under .500 in day games while the Brewers are 13 games under.

 

But back to the Brewers, it's not just about Sunday lineups because the pitching staff's performance is also worse during the day than it is at night.

[JosephC]

OPS differential in time of day stats.

 

Braun = +0.370 (0.893 at night, 0.523 in day)

Arcia = +0.255

Pina = +0.195

Shaw = +0.180

Yelich = +0.148

Aguilar = +0.095

Perez = +0.052

Moustakas = +0.006 (only factoring in stats with Brewers)

Cain = -0.095

Kratz = -0.095

Thames = -0.293 (0.737 at night, 1.030 in day)

Schoop = -0.362 (only with Brewers)

 

 

Lots more +'s than -'s on the list. Throw out Schoop for the lack of a decent sample size, and Thames is the only one much better during the daytime. But Braun, Arcia, Pina, Shaw, Yelich all much better at night. Braun's daytime numbers are so bad that Counsell should consider benching him for all day games even if the pitching matchup seems to be favorable.

[FVBrewerFan]

Look up the stats for Wednesdays, first game back after an off day, or dates ending in "2." You would likely find the same randomness. I really don't even put much weight on home/away splits, much less day/night splits. Sample size way too small to prove it's anything more than random. If Braun's day/night splits are that drastic for his career then it would get my attention.

[xisxisxis]

Look up the stats for Wednesdays, first game back after an off day, or dates ending in "2." You would likely find the same randomness. I really don't even put much weight on home/away splits, much less day/night splits. Sample size way too small to prove it's anything more than random. If Braun's day/night splits are that drastic for his career then it would get my attention.

 

Yep. In my field of work, this happens all the time... when you start subsetting the data you will just capture more non-random noise...

 

For Career, Braun is .906 OPS in day, 0.892 at night....

[Baldkin]

Yeah, I don't feel like this is like the 2008 squad who was notorious for closing down the bars on Saturday nights before Sunday day games.

[jerichoholicninja]

Look up the stats for Wednesdays, first game back after an off day, or dates ending in "2." You would likely find the same randomness. I really don't even put much weight on home/away splits, much less day/night splits. Sample size way too small to prove it's anything more than random. If Braun's day/night splits are that drastic for his career then it would get my attention.

 

Yep. In my field of work, this happens all the time... when you start subsetting the data you will just capture more non-random noise...

 

For Career, Braun is .906 OPS in day, 0.892 at night....

 

It's not totally random as the "Sunday lineup" is a thing for just about every team, not just Milwaukee. I guess our bench just generally has sucked compared to other teams so their scrubs destroy our scrubs.

[FVBrewerFan]

Look up the stats for Wednesdays, first game back after an off day, or dates ending in "2." You would likely find the same randomness. I really don't even put much weight on home/away splits, much less day/night splits. Sample size way too small to prove it's anything more than random. If Braun's day/night splits are that drastic for his career then it would get my attention.

 

Yep. In my field of work, this happens all the time... when you start subsetting the data you will just capture more non-random noise...

 

For Career, Braun is .906 OPS in day, 0.892 at night....

 

It's not totally random as the "Sunday lineup" is a thing for just about every team, not just Milwaukee. I guess our bench just generally has sucked compared to other teams so their scrubs destroy our scrubs.

 

Yes it is, because there is no difference between the Brewers Sunday line-up and any other day or night of the week. It's not like the old days when your bench players barely played. The Brewers really don't have a bench, everyone plays a lot. Even Pina/Kratz, really not a big difference there, plus sometimes it's flipped and Kratz plays the night game before, Pina on Sunday. (Which they just did this weekend.)

 

Plus, we're talking about Braun's day/night splits which has nothing to do with a "Sunday line-up" in general.

[JosephC]

OK, I'll admit I just tacked the "bench Braun for day games" comment onto the end of the post for reasons other than the actual day/night splits. Just sick of the guy's frequent trips to the DL for grade 1 strains and the big sucking sound that accompanies his contract. Will give him credit for making a great catch a couple games back.

[JosephC]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2018/08/12/notes-zach-davies-remain-minor-league-rehab-no-return-date-set/971598002/

 

See the bottom "No picnic on Sundays" part. Never dreamed that on-the-field batting practice would be so strenuous that professional athletes would need a weekly day off. That batting practice grind, what a killer!

[Ennder]

Sunday is a very classic day off for players in baseball, this isn't a Brewer thing. It likely means nothing for any specific team.

[Brewever]

Sunday is a very classic day off for players in baseball, this isn't a Brewer thing. It likely means nothing for any specific team.

 

 

Excuses excuses

[MNBrew]

Generalizing for a just a moment to day games in general, after today's downer (although yesterday's win was so encouraging), does it seem a little unexpected based on how this year's going that the Brewers came out of a series at Wrigley having improved their season winning percentage in day games?

 

There are a few things in the bigger picture that are concerning. The Sunday thing is a glaring & obvious one. Certainly there's no legit excuse. Same for this:

 

In today's game, Haudricourt noted that the Brewers have had a .204 BA on the season with the bases loaded. In a circumstance when batters often thrive because their focus/concentration/whatever is usually especially elevated.... our Brewers are largely stinking it up. Yikes! Hopefully we make the playoffs in spite of it, but it's a circumstance where a little better success rate could potentially have some pretty significant payoff in the standings.

 

It reminds me of the one "off" year (2009, maybe? just stabbing at an answer, not looking it up) Prince Fielder after he'd already been good, when he had when his BA w/ RISP was especially lousy -- one of our biggest run producers wasn't doing what he was one of the main guys counted on to do -- yet folks were countering that he was at least walking a lot and had a good OBP. What he did well wasn't unhelpful, but he wasn't doing a main thing the team needed him to do most. To me it was almost akin to singing the praises of Braden Looper for his 14 wins (not insignificant, but...) and saying he was actually a good pitcher and that his 5+ ERA wasn't really indicative of the quality of his work.

 

So hopefully the crappy-so-far Sunday record doesn't keep them out of the playoffs, but hopefully they start getting it together big-time on that front and a few significant others.

[Brewever]

Generalizing for a just a moment to day games in general, after today's downer (although yesterday's win was so encouraging), does it seem a little unexpected based on how this year's going that the Brewers came out of a series at Wrigley having improved their season winning percentage in day games?

 

There are a few things in the bigger picture that are concerning. The Sunday thing is a glaring & obvious one. Certainly there's no legit excuse. Same for this:

 

In today's game, Haudricourt noted that the Brewers have had a .204 BA on the season with the bases loaded. In a circumstance when batters often thrive because their focus/concentration/whatever is usually especially elevated.... our Brewers are largely stinking it up. Yikes! Hopefully we make the playoffs in spite of it, but it's a circumstance where a little better success rate could potentially have some pretty significant payoff in the standings.

 

It reminds me of the one "off" year (2009, maybe? just stabbing at an answer, not looking it up) Prince Fielder after he'd already been good, when he had when his BA w/ RISP was especially lousy -- one of our biggest run producers wasn't doing what he was one of the main guys counted on to do -- yet folks were countering that he was at least walking a lot and had a good OBP. What he did well wasn't unhelpful, but he wasn't doing a main thing the team needed him to do most. To me it was almost akin to singing the praises of Braden Looper for his 14 wins (not insignificant, but...) and saying he was actually a good pitcher and that his 5+ ERA wasn't really indicative of the quality of his work.

 

So hopefully the crappy-so-far Sunday record doesn't keep them out of the playoffs, but hopefully they start getting it together big-time on that front and a few significant others.

 

 

 

I wish we got Sunday night games, dang Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers,Redsox..to me that doesn't seem fair that Sunday night games are 90% teams mentioned. Heck they don't even show the Astros, Phillies, Braves..they don't even show the ASTROS?

 

Haha, the last time Astros got play on Sunday night is when Jessica Mendoza tried telling the world series champs how they should run their franchise. (As far as signing Osuna) Ya, I am sure they need advice. I do think it's unfair, I am sure there are many teams who have huge differences in day/night splits.

 

 

Also a big change I see and hear from brewer fans, here and with people I talk to is, "If we make the playoffs" I personally think it would be a disaster if we missed the playoffs, then had to listen to people that lie to themselves about this team talk about how we are ahead of schedule and how competitive the NL is.

 

I don't want excuses. I want results. I don't want grit, I want wins. I don't want mediocrity, I want a champion.

 

Seems way to many give the excuses and are ok with mediocrity....heck Maybe average feels like greatness to them, because of how bad this team has been for so long, minus a few years.

[sveumrules]

I personally think it would be a disaster if we missed the playoffs, then had to listen to people that lie to themselves about this team talk about how we are ahead of schedule and how competitive the NL is.

 

At very worst the team is right on schedule (yes, even if they miss the playoffs) and that is only because the timetable has been accelerated as a result of them overachieving each of the last two seasons.

 

Entering this season general consensus was that we would be competitive for a WC spot as the WAS, CHI & LAD "super teams" were all considered division locks & that is exactly where we are at the moment.

 

This team was not considered a postseason lock prior to the season, so if they don't make the postseason it would hard for me to consider that a disaster as it has always been a realistic outcome.

[Brewever]

I personally think it would be a disaster if we missed the playoffs, then had to listen to people that lie to themselves about this team talk about how we are ahead of schedule and how competitive the NL is.

 

At very worst the team is right on schedule (yes, even if they miss the playoffs) and that is only because the timetable has been accelerated as a result of them overachieving each of the last two seasons.

 

Entering this season general consensus was that we would be competitive for a WC spot as the WAS, CHI & LAD "super teams" were all considered division locks & that is exactly where we are at the moment.

 

This team was not considered a postseason lock prior to the season, so if they don't make the postseason it would hard for me to consider that a disaster as it has always been a realistic outcome.

 

 

 

I see your point. I really do. But let's look at it through a casual fans eyes (which I am not). The brewers missed the playoffs by 1 game last year. What if they miss the playoffs by 3 games this year? By definition, that is regression. Yes you have to take into account they might win more games this year than last.

 

Alot of people keep talking about this "schedule" Whom is setting this schedule? When did they set the schedule...So 2019 is the year? 2020? Or we are just gonna say after 2018 we are gonna be really good and hope some of these guys pan out Burned and Peralta namely. What if we miss the playoffs the next 2-3 years, are we still on schedule, are we gonna keep saying this? Then there is the chance Sterns leaves...its a big puzzle, which intrigues me. Let's hope for the best.

 

With the addition of Yelich and Caine, after missing the playoffs by 1 game, should you have a very good chance?

 

Then there is the "same old brewers mantra" brewers fade second half every season, always pretenders. We become a joke, especially to cub fans (grrrrr).

 

We could probably say the brewers front office caters more to the casual fan then the hardcore fan?

 

Ehh, idk. To me it isn't disastrous to have another great first half and the same old brewers the second half....but it's gonna have an impact on certain fans no doubt.

 

Sorry for the babbling and going I different directions.

[Brewever]

Sunday is a very classic day off for players in baseball, this isn't a Brewer thing. It likely means nothing for any specific team.

 

 

This guy is right, every team has about a 25% winning percentage on sundays. It's not just the brewers guys.

[Ennder]

There are definitely two parts to this. The Brewers have played poorly in day games and Sunday games are usually day games. I completely believe in that part of it.

 

Counsell rests guys on Sunday and that is why we lose is the part I don't believe at all. It is a well known practice for every team in baseball to rest guys on Sunday. It makes filling out fantasy lineups a huge headache on Sunday because so many players that normally start have the day off. This really is not something specific to the Brewers at all. I don't believe that has much of anything to do with this stat.

 

Also I'm curious where you got the record by day. Did you just add it up on your own or does a site actually split that data up? That would be something interesting to look at if it is a split somewhere easy to get.

[Brewever]

There are definitely two parts to this. The Brewers have played poorly in day games and Sunday games are usually day games. I completely believe in that part of it.

 

Counsell rests guys on Sunday and that is why we lose is the part I don't believe at all. It is a well known practice for every team in baseball to rest guys on Sunday. It makes filling out fantasy lineups a huge headache on Sunday because so many players that normally start have the day off. This really is not something specific to the Brewers at all. I don't believe that has much of anything to do with this stat.

 

Also I'm curious where you got the record by day. Did you just add it up on your own or does a site actually split that data up? That would be something interesting to look at if it is a split somewhere easy to get.

 

 

I agree with the first part the rest I dont.

 

Day games and Sunday games go hand in hand.

 

I seen the Sunday record was like 4-13 or something.

 

Well, we can blame espn, if it wasn't for the Yankees Redsox Dodgers love fest, maybe we could get some Sunday night games....oh, well then that means Jessica Mendoza, yuck nvm.

[Brewever]

There are definitely two parts to this. The Brewers have played poorly in day games and Sunday games are usually day games. I completely believe in that part of it.

 

Counsell rests guys on Sunday and that is why we lose is the part I don't believe at all. It is a well known practice for every team in baseball to rest guys on Sunday. It makes filling out fantasy lineups a huge headache on Sunday because so many players that normally start have the day off. This really is not something specific to the Brewers at all. I don't believe that has much of anything to do with this stat.

 

Also I'm curious where you got the record by day. Did you just add it up on your own or does a site actually split that data up? That would be something interesting to look at if it is a split somewhere easy to get.

 

 

I don't play fantasy, so how do you know most teams sit their stars on sunday...is this a fact? I don't know..havent played fantasy since I was a kid.