2018-08-04: Rockies (Anderson) at Brewers (Peralta) 6:10 PM CDT [Brewers win, 8-4]

[adambr2]

I'm not going to get on Counsell for using Albers to start the 9th, or when he pulled him. It took a double and walk given up by Soria after Albers was pulled before the tying run even got to the plate.

 

8-2 in the 9th is about as good of a situation as you can find to use your struggling reliever. If you can't, he doesn't belong on the roster.

[BruisedCrew]

That was way too exciting for an 8-4 game.

 

Good news is really no reason all of Knebel, Soria, and Hader shouldn't be available if needed tomorrow, then a day off Monday.

 

That’s why bringing Albers in was so ridiculous. They should have those guys plus Jeffress, Burnes and Jennings tomorrow, so why diddle around with a 6 run lead in the ninth inning? Put in a pitcher you trust and get the game over with.

[JohnBriggs12]

I've been a Brewers fan since the beginning. In all those years, I remember twice when they coughed up a 6 run lead in the 9th. Once was against the Orioles around 1977. Brewers were up 6-0. Orioles got 6 in the 9th and 4 in the 10th on a grand slam by Al Bumbry if memory serves me. I was there for that one. The other time was in 84 against the Rangers.

 

I have never felt totally comfortable with a lead less than 7. Albers brought me flashbacks. He's got to go. Now..

[superfly]

I've been a Brewers fan since the beginning. In all those years, I remember twice when they coughed up a 6 run lead in the 9th. Once was against the Orioles around 1977. Brewers were up 6-0. Orioles got 6 in the 9th and 4 in the 10th on a grand slam by Al Bumbry if memory serves me. I was there for that one. The other time was in 84 against the Rangers.

 

I have never felt totally comfortable with a lead less than 7. Albers brought me flashbacks. He's got to go. Now..

 

Nevermind Albers was good in 2012....and 2013....and 2014....and 2015....and 2017.....and through 6/1 2018 before he ended up on the DL.

 

What he's been doing is completely unacceptable, but we need him to be good down the stretch. He's off because he was on the DL with the shoulder, and maybe it isn't right still. No thank you to anymore Taylor Williams, Wilkerson, etc types, I want the vet if he's able to pitch effectively.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

We need Derrick Turnbow

[DougJonesChangeUp]

or Curtis Leskanic

[tmwiese55]

I'm not going to get on Counsell for using Albers to start the 9th, or when he pulled him. It took a double and walk given up by Soria after Albers was pulled before the tying run even got to the plate.

 

8-2 in the 9th is about as good of a situation as you can find to use your struggling reliever. If you can't, he doesn't belong on the roster.

 

This is exactly right. 6 run lead in the 9th is your best chance to get him a clean inning and just in general the exact time to use your worst reliever. After this I think a DL trip has to happen

[areacodes]

That was way too exciting for an 8-4 game.

 

Good news is really no reason all of Knebel, Soria, and Hader shouldn't be available if needed tomorrow, then a day off Monday.

 

That’s why bringing Albers in was so ridiculous. They should have those guys plus Jeffress, Burnes and Jennings tomorrow, so why diddle around with a 6 run lead in the ninth inning? Put in a pitcher you trust and get the game over with.

 

Because it is a 6 run lead?

[wibadgers23]

Brewers have 48 games left. If they go .500 the rest of the way, that will put them at 89 wins. You would think that would be good enough for at least one of the two wild card spots.

[The stache]

 

Only original member is the drummer...

 

Frankie Banali is not the original drummer. He never played with Randy Rhoads. Drew Forsyth played in QR from 1975 to 1979. Banali didn't join until late 1982.

[MoreTrife]

I will not feel safe until we hang 10 on the scoreboard.

 

Yep. Gonna need a bunch more.

 

A bunch more than 7??? How many do you think we will give up?

 

Glad we had 8.

[BruisedCrew]

That was way too exciting for an 8-4 game.

 

Good news is really no reason all of Knebel, Soria, and Hader shouldn't be available if needed tomorrow, then a day off Monday.

 

That’s why bringing Albers in was so ridiculous. They should have those guys plus Jeffress, Burnes and Jennings tomorrow, so why diddle around with a 6 run lead in the ninth inning? Put in a pitcher you trust and get the game over with.

 

Because it is a 6 run lead?

 

Have you noticed how many runs Albers has given up in his last few outings? What happened tonight was totally predictable and Counsell walked right into it. Just close out the game and go home instead of giving the opponent a chance to win.

[clancyphile]

Hader didn't pitch that much, he's still available. Soria threw 13 pitches, he's also arguably available.

 

Hader, Soria, Burnes, Jeffress, and Jennings.

 

Knebel and Barnes also went 15 pitches or less.

 

I'm not super-worried.

[TURBO]

 

Only original member is the drummer...

 

Frankie Banali is not the original drummer. He never played with Randy Rhoads. Drew Forsyth played in QR from 1975 to 1979. Banali didn't join until late 1982.

 

lol

 

ok, Banali is the drummer they had when they hit it big. He was the Metal Health drummer, so if we are being that picky, then yes, he was not the original drummer.

 

my bad.

[BruisedCrew]

Tomorrow I would give Aguilar and his tired bat a day off and play Thames at first and Braun in LF.

[Ennder]

You guys are really reaching if you want to blame Counsell for bringing in a guy who is struggling after coming off of the DL with a 6 run lead to try to find his stuff. This is the classic example of when Albers should be in a game. It is bad enough you all want to blame him for every single loss the team has on the year, don't try to blame him for not winning as big as they could too.

[sdcheezhd]

I've been a Brewers fan since the beginning. In all those years, I remember twice when they coughed up a 6 run lead in the 9th. Once was against the Orioles around 1977. Brewers were up 6-0. Orioles got 6 in the 9th and 4 in the 10th on a grand slam by Al Bumbry if memory serves me. I was there for that one. The other time was in 84 against the Rangers.

 

I have never felt totally comfortable with a lead less than 7. Albers brought me flashbacks. He's got to go. Now..

I was there too! 2d game of a DH they'd last the 1st so even worse. Some bum came up to put the first few on and then our close Irish Tom Murphy came in to the jig. I still remember how stupid that jog sounded at 6-6. As I recall it was 5 in the 10th so 11-6

[areacodes]

 

That’s why bringing Albers in was so ridiculous. They should have those guys plus Jeffress, Burnes and Jennings tomorrow, so why diddle around with a 6 run lead in the ninth inning? Put in a pitcher you trust and get the game over with.

 

Because it is a 6 run lead?

 

Have you noticed how many runs Albers has given up in his last few outings? What happened tonight was totally predictable and Counsell walked right into it. Just close out the game and go home instead of giving the opponent a chance to win.

 

Honestly? It sounds like a perfect opportunity to try and let him work out whatever his issue is right now.

 

When should they use Albers and who should they have used instead?

[BruisedCrew]

As I said before, if you’re trying to get a guy a chance to find his stuff, use him in a game when you are several runs BEHIND so that you aren’t risking blowing a game that you should be winning easily. If the bullpen had been used heavily in the last couple of games, then maybe you have to use Albers. But last night, because of Thursday’s blowout and Guerra’s 8 inning start on Friday, everyone in the bullpen except for Jennings and Burnes had had at least two days off and is looking at an off day on Monday. Albers, meanwhile had pitched both Wednesday and Thursday, and wasn’t able to get out of an inning in either game. So, yeah, I think using your least effective and least rested pitcher against a potent offense was an unnecessary risk. Let Barnes and 2 of your rested and more effective relievers get in an inning of work and don’t give the opponent life. With the rest they’ve had, with just one inning of work they should be available to pitch both today and Tuesday after the off day.

 

I don’t criticize Counsell for bullpen decisions that often. But I did it last night because I think he unnecessarily put a game at risk and it almost blew up in his face.

[areacodes]

I just don't think the criticism is warranted in that situation. People are already concerned that the bullpen is overworked (or will be) and you want Counsel to use Jeffress, Soria or Hader up by 6 to get 3 outs?

 

We should take every opportunity to give our best relievers days off so they are fresh as we push towards the playoffs. Albers failed yesterday but it still took a hit and a walk against Soria to bring the tying run to the plate. Albers was a big part of why our bullpen was so good early this season and has a decent track record for a reliever... we need him to get back on track and can't just wait for blowout losses to do so.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I just don't think the criticism is warranted in that situation. People are already concerned that the bullpen is overworked (or will be) and you want Counsel to use Jeffress, Soria or Hader up by 6 to get 3 outs?

 

We should take every opportunity to give our best relievers days off so they are fresh as we push towards the playoffs. Albers failed yesterday but it still took a hit and a walk against Soria to bring the tying run to the plate. Albers was a big part of why our bullpen was so good early this season and has a decent track record for a reliever... we need him to get back on track and can't just wait for blowout losses to do so.

 

You are 100% correct. Unfortunately this team has had many opportunities being up my comfortable margins this year. But when they are, that is the chance to get struggling pitchers some work. Yes, Albers made things more nerve wracking, but it worked out in the end. Plus, most of our prime relievers are still available for today.

[BruisedCrew]

I just don't think the criticism is warranted in that situation. People are already concerned that the bullpen is overworked (or will be) and you want Counsel to use Jeffress, Soria or Hader up by 6 to get 3 outs?

 

We should take every opportunity to give our best relievers days off so they are fresh as we push towards the playoffs. Albers failed yesterday but it still took a hit and a walk against Soria to bring the tying run to the plate. Albers was a big part of why our bullpen was so good early this season and has a decent track record for a reliever... we need him to get back on track and can't just wait for blowout losses to do so.

 

Sure, in general you want to save your best relievers. But I don’t think that means that you blindly refuse to use certain pitchers regardless of how often they have been used and whether or not you have an off day coming up. Or that you ignore how many effective relievers you have. When none of your best relievers (at least the best 4) did not pitch in the previous 2 games, and you have an off day coming in two days) I think there is less value, and possibly some downside, to saving all of them.

 

It’s one thing if you have a great closer, a reliable setup man, and 5 or 6 mediocre pitchers in the bullpen. Then you want to save those two “best” relievers for tight games that you have a chance to win. But the Brewers bullpen right now has more effective relievers than that. If I ranked the Brewers best relievers now, I would say the best 3 are Hader, Jeffress, and Knebel. Their roles and ability to pitch on consecutive days are different, but they are the ones I would be using the most judiciously. Next, I would put Soria, followed closely by Burnes. Albers was in this category for the first part of the season but since his return he has pitched himself to the bottom of the heap. Barnes has taken over Williams role as the bridge guy who pitches mainly when the team is behind or has a comfortable lead or needs someone before the 6th inning. Jennings is in a special category as the lefty who can be used in several roles but isn’t one of the “best” relievers.

 

I keep coming back to the specific circumstances of last night’s game and why the general desire to save relievers may not apply. Counsell already did something unconventional by using Knebel in the 7th. He apparently thought that with two days off, he could get Knebel some work in without sacrificing his availability for today if he’s needed or for Tuesday. Why would the same not apply to Soria and/or Jeffress? Hader may be different because they seem to be even more reluctant to use him on consecutive days than the others.

 

I would have brought Soria in to start the ninth last night. If he could have gotten through the inning without throwing a ton of pitches he could have been available today if needed. Even if he wouldn’t be available, you’d still have Hader, Jeffress, Burnes, Jennings, and probably Knebel and Barnes. If that isn’t good enough then you’re screwed anyway.

 

It’s fine to be concerned about the bullpen getting overworked, and I’m there too. But sitting a reliever for 3 days in a row, and maybe 5 days in a row if they don’t get in today, isn’t going to make them any more effective in September. Pitching Albers for the third time in 4 days may not have been the ideal way to have him work out his problems either.

 

We’re obviously going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

[BruisedCrew]

I've been a Brewers fan since the beginning. In all those years, I remember twice when they coughed up a 6 run lead in the 9th. Once was against the Orioles around 1977. Brewers were up 6-0. Orioles got 6 in the 9th and 4 in the 10th on a grand slam by Al Bumbry if memory serves me. I was there for that one. The other time was in 84 against the Rangers.

 

I have never felt totally comfortable with a lead less than 7. Albers brought me flashbacks. He's got to go. Now..

I was there too! 2d game of a DH they'd last the 1st so even worse. Some bum came up to put the first few on and then our close Irish Tom Murphy came in to the jig. I still remember how stupid that jog sounded at 6-6. As I recall it was 5 in the 10th so 11-6

 

I remember a game against Arizona where the Brewers went into the last of the 9th with a 5-0 lead and ended up losing 6-5 without recording an out. I hate seeing the opponent get a rally started no matter how large the lead is because once it starts it isn’t always that easy to stop.

[Pugger]

Lol, Sedar.

 

Arcia literally rounding 3rd and the cutoff was caught already. That was a real dumb send.

 

Sedar is a dope.

[Pugger]

Are you kidding me with this?

 

Why is Albers anywhere near a Major League mound, and wearing a Brewers uniform?

 

He really is a mess right now...