Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[Yolk]

Yeah, the Braves gave up nothing really.

[bill hAll Star]

 

Except one of Shaw, Schoop, and Moose will be on the bench every day to start.

 

This is such a curious move.

 

Isn't that good to have those guys available on the bench?

 

No, it would be better to have on at C...or SS assuming Schoop is not going to be at SS often. It’s an expensive price to pay for these guys when they find themselves on the bench so much.

 

We make a lot of pitching changes. My guess is that Stearns is adding a pseudo-DH here with the options we have and the amount of times we have the option of pinch-hitting.

 

If this was a bumbling front office making stupid decisions left and right I’d call it a “curious move.” Since it’s not, even if there is risk to it, I am trying to figure out why it could be shrewd, and I think my above paragraph is why.

[tmwiese55]

There is likely to be some even more extreme bullpen usage coming with all the off days and expanded rosters in September. So it's a good thing to have quality hitters to come in with the double switches as opposed to Perez/Orf. Is the price worth it is certainly debatable but it's definitely an improvement and a team like ours doing this bullpen shuffle needs it more than anyone else.

[rickh150]

A few thoughts....

This trade is all about our righty lineup vs lefty pitching (Cubs). School plays 2B and one of Shaw or Moose aplays 3B.

School hit .955 OPS against lefties last year (8th best among SS and 2B).

He's a hot hitter, and the team needs a jolt. He and Moose provides that.

Schoop can play a little SS.

[TexasCheesehead]

 

Video of Schoop reacting to the trade.

[bill hAll Star]

I really don't like this move. The only way it makes some sense is if Schoop can play SS at a high level. I wouldn't be happy with a Machado situation, he doesn't hit like Machado where you can justify it. Moustakas is a plus defender at 3b but Shaw will likely be a below average 2b at best and Schoop is a question mark. If Arcia still gets a ton of playing time, I'll find this trade incredibly dumb as we'll have 2 good players on the bench every day and 2 bad hitters in the lineup everyday.

 

Our pitching has relied heavily on good defense to keep runs off the board, it seems like we are throwing that strategy to the wind to a large degree in the name of offense. I'm hopefully, but also very skeptical.

 

See my post: I think having a loaded bench when you double switch and pinch hit a lot in the NL is probably an undervalued commodity that Stearns is trying to tap into.

 

This team is a top defensive team thanks to the staff, analytics, and transactions to acquire some of these guys. Again, they know what they’re doing if they think they can make it work in the context of the defense.

[Mays Hayes]

Pronounced

 

 

Not...

 

 

 

Well that sucks!!

[Tbadder]

I’m really uncomfortable with this trade, but something had to be done. With Archer and Gausmann being traded today this feels like a forced move. So it’s up to us bludgeoning other teams to death and relying on an excellent bullpen. Carmona hurts. The other two I had increasingly poor opinion of, but then again I’m hardly a professional evaluator. The roster lacks balance it seems, maybe Burnes goes back to starting? I just don’t know. I will say that losing Villar seems like addition by subtraction.

[TexasCheesehead]

Regardless of how you feel about our deadline moves, we can all share in mutual joy that Eric Sogard is never going to be in our starting lineup again this year (we re-signed him to a minor league deal, in case you didn’t know that). Lol

[tmwiese55]

WE've had a great D this year in spite of so-so defenders at 1B, 3b, 2b and one of the OF spots wherever Thames/Braun play. Kind of have to think a key part of the quality D is analytics and shifting, of course along with Yelich and Cain having some good range in the OF. Are they pushing the envelope if you play 6-7 innings a game with a Schoop/Shaw combo, definitely. This outside the box, we'll see what happens but so far I think we have to give benefit of the doubt to our management.

[B-Train]

Runs allowed early in the game because of bad defense count the same as runs allowed later in the game.

Same can be said for runs gained from better offense. This will have to be a wait and see experiment.

 

I have read recently that the Brewers record when scoring 4 or more runs is off the charts - approx 80% wins; conversely the record when scoring 3 or fewer is abysmal.

 

The fix to that issue is to add offense. Get to 4 runs and our chances of winning, because of a lock down bullpen and decent enough starters, go up big time.

 

Now it is up to the players to perform and meet expectations. We can another starter if further attrition to the starters occurs (for the right price).

[KeithStone53151]

I really don't like this move. The only way it makes some sense is if Schoop can play SS at a high level. I wouldn't be happy with a Machado situation, he doesn't hit like Machado where you can justify it. Moustakas is a plus defender at 3b but Shaw will likely be a below average 2b at best and Schoop is a question mark. If Arcia still gets a ton of playing time, I'll find this trade incredibly dumb as we'll have 2 good players on the bench every day and 2 bad hitters in the lineup everyday.

 

Our pitching has relied heavily on good defense to keep runs off the board, it seems like we are throwing that strategy to the wind to a large degree in the name of offense. I'm hopefully, but also very skeptical.

 

See my post: I think having a loaded bench when you double switch and pinch hit a lot in the NL is probably an undervalued commodity that Stearns is trying to tap into.

 

This team is a top defensive team thanks to the staff, analytics, and transactions to acquire some of these guys. Again, they know what they’re doing if they think they can make it work in the context of the defense.

 

I definitely can see the value in using Schoop in a double switch over Villar or Perez for a 3-4 inning 2 at bat stint. That's a lot to pay for that upgrade. I sure hope they know what their doing and I hopeful that it works out, but as noted above I'm a bit skeptical. On the surface it looks like we paid a lot for a very marginal upgrade.

[jonescm128]

I really don't like this move. The only way it makes some sense is if Schoop can play SS at a high level. I wouldn't be happy with a Machado situation, he doesn't hit like Machado where you can justify it. Moustakas is a plus defender at 3b but Shaw will likely be a below average 2b at best and Schoop is a question mark. If Arcia still gets a ton of playing time, I'll find this trade incredibly dumb as we'll have 2 good players on the bench every day and 2 bad hitters in the lineup everyday.

 

Our pitching has relied heavily on good defense to keep runs off the board, it seems like we are throwing that strategy to the wind to a large degree in the name of offense. I'm hopefully, but also very skeptical.

 

See my post: I think having a loaded bench when you double switch and pinch hit a lot in the NL is probably an undervalued commodity that Stearns is trying to tap into.

 

This team is a top defensive team thanks to the staff, analytics, and transactions to acquire some of these guys. Again, they know what they’re doing if they think they can make it work in the context of the defense.

 

I definitely can see the value in using Schoop in a double switch over Villar or Perez for a 3-4 inning 2 at bat stint. That's a lot to pay for that upgrade. I sure hope they know what their doing and I hopeful that it works out, but as noted above I'm a bit skeptical. On the surface it looks like we paid a lot for a very marginal upgrade.

 

Are you saying Schoop is a marginal upgrade over Villar/Perez? Gotta disagree with you on that. He is way better.

[tmwiese55]

I tried finding on baseball ref but couldn't find it, but don't we have a really bad record vs lefties this year? Just like we're really bad in day games. This would improve the vs lefties lineup and the Cubs have 4 lefty starters right now.

[FVBrewerFan]

Let's cut to the chase. Shaw has been horrible vs LHP this season. Now you can sit him every time a LHP is starting, but still use a big bat like that vs a RHP late in a game.

 

Question will be how Schoop is used vs RHP. I would guess he won't start very often, but will play the 2nd half of most every game using double switch.

 

In 2019 I see Shaw moving back to 3B full time, and Schoop full time at 2B. (Barring any trades of course, this can likely change.) If Hiura is "ready" at some point next season, it's a good problem to have. Brewers have shown they're pretty creative in finding places for hot bats.

[Bulldogboy]

Scoop is an upgrade for what its worth to our overall depth but if he isn't playing short someone is going to be sitting quite a bit. I think scoop should play short and move to second once you get to the late innings for Arcia. Not getting a starter is a major problem. Jimmy Nelson could cost brewers a playoff spot two years in a row. Who would have thought.

[AKCheesehead]

 

Video of Schoop reacting to the trade.

In Baltimore do they conduct interviews in the middle of a recycling facility?

[Thurston Fluff]

This move feels like a boost to the floor more than the ceiling. It's not flashy. It'll be an improvement, but in less obvious ways. It means more rest for guys like Shaw and Aguilar, and another option to play with if Aguilar's little slump continues or if anybody in the infield gets hurt, and better options for pinch hitting matchups and matchups in general.

 

The little voice in my head asking "where's everybody gonna play" sounds an awful lot like the one at the beginning of the season asking the same question about the outfield.

 

I do still worry about the defense a bit. But hope springs attorney.

 

 

That's a pretty good way of looking at this. When we signed Chacin it wasn't flashy but he lifted the floor and expanded the depth. Turns out that depth is what held the staff together this season. With this move we don't have to rely on a couple key players staying healthy and productive as much.

[tmwiese55]

I tried finding on baseball ref but couldn't find it, but don't we have a really bad record vs lefties this year? Just like we're really bad in day games. This would improve the vs lefties lineup and the Cubs have 4 lefty starters right now.

 

Don't see record but vs lefties team OPS goes down 49 points, avg 19, obp 14, slug 34.

[jonescm128]

Let's cut to the chase. Shaw has been horrible vs LHP this season. Now you can sit him every time a LHP is starting, but still use a big bat like that vs a RHP late in a game.

 

Question will be how Schoop is used vs RHP. I would guess he won't start very often, but will play the 2nd half of most every game using double switch.

 

In 2019 I see Shaw moving back to 3B full time, and Schoop full time at 2B. (Barring any trades of course, this can likely change.) If Hiura is "ready" at some point next season, it's a good problem to have. Brewers have shown they're pretty creative in finding places for hot bats.

 

Exactly. This was a move for next year just as much as it was for this year.

[Jenkins5]

Interesting move. Carmona stings a little but there are others like Coco that I have grown to like more. Lot of power potential & was doing well at 18 in Helena though. Nice lottery ticket for O’s. Ortiz I’m not heartbroken about. He will probably battle nagging injuries while career that will never allow him to reach potential.

 

We have great options every night. If injury happens, we are pretty covered. We are deep. That’s important down the road. I’m really interested how it all plays out for us.

 

I’ll judge trade later with no knee jerks

[splitterpfj]

I think what Stearns has done is masterful, he's built a good, deep big league team, and he's kept his best prospects - but this team needs some insurance for the rotation, clearly.

 

I get it, the truly impactful starter wasn't there to be had right now, that's why I credit Stearns for keeping his best kids, because a time will come when he's in position to get a stud when one comes along. I didn't expect a major trade for a pitcher today, but I did expect a deal for an arm.

 

I gladly welcome Schoop, and I don't mind the loss of the guys Baltimore got either - I'll take it, and I'm really excited for this team, but ....

[coolhandluke121]

It’s interesting that 2 weeks ago people were up in arms about making moves. Stearns makes moves, doesn’t give up any of our top 5 prospects, and people hate them. I don’t understand it.

 

It might not be the same people on both sides you know. Always gotta guard against the tendency to treat this forum like it should have a personality of its own. Just because 50 people demand a trade and then 50 different people complain about the trade they make doesn't mean there's any contradiction there. The hundreds of people who post here don't owe it to you to have a unified voice.

 

Decent trade. They bought low on a pretty talented player. For this year though, I would have been fine with Villar against LHP's with Perez and Saladino for various mop-up duties (defensive replacements, spot start against LHP's, emergency injury replacement, pinch-run, etc). With Moustakas in the fold and reasonable injury luck, they weren't going to have to give scrubs very many pa's anymore regardless.

[FVBrewerFan]

I tried finding on baseball ref but couldn't find it, but don't we have a really bad record vs lefties this year? Just like we're really bad in day games. This would improve the vs lefties lineup and the Cubs have 4 lefty starters right now.

 

Don't see record but vs lefties team OPS goes down 49 points, avg 19, obp 14, slug 34.

 

Right, and remember the Dodgers are also LH heavy in their rotation.

 

One move doesn't solve the hitting for LHP issue, but it helps. Now they need Arcia and Pina/Kratz to be even decent. Even if they hit like they have on this road trip they'll be fine. Aguilar needs to heat up again....which leaves it all up to Braun. Man he used to destroy LHP! Please Braunie, get even 80% of that back for 3 more months.

[adambr2]

Schoop has some crazy strange platoon splits. The first few years of his career he had some major reverse splits where he hit much better against RHP. Last season he destroyed LHP at a .955 OPS clip and hit a much more modest, but still good .805 OPS.

 

I'm going to chalk up his early season struggles to injuries. He's been amazing lately.