Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[tmwiese55]

Through July 31 the Brewers scored 4.35 runs per game. Since then 4.94 runs per game. Team OPS was about .720 before July 31 and about .780 since (didn't have time to run the exact numbers). The offense sucked the first half, no way around it. Since getting Moose and Schoop the offense has been much better. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it's not like anyone was missing due to injury before. Frankly, I don't think Stearns gave up anyone of great value for either of those two and seemed to fix what has been the crappiest part of the team for the last two years.

 

And that's in spite of significant regression from Jesus since then too. I suppose somewhat balanced by the hot streak of Yelich though, but he was good the whole year anyway.

[Devinep]

At the end of the day, this trade was as much about next year as this year. Brewers saw no future with Villar so they traded him for a guy who can play 2B for a year until Hiura is hopefully ready.

 

But is he even going to be worth the 10 million or so he’ll get? Likely not. He isn’t versatile (just Brewer versatile apparently) and has hit poorly since he’s come over. Better off going into FA and getting Marwin gonzalez or Escobar, players who can move to SS after Huira comes up (they’ve also both outhit Schoop this year)

 

you'd likely have to give multi-year commitments for tens of millions to those guys as opposed just a 1 year commitment to Schoop.

 

ETA: I've also had Marwan in fantasy this year. Major disappointment year for him. But his versatility is just crazy.

 

His major day disappointment year is still above league average and much better than Scoop. I was also thinking as a potential SS but as Meyer said it would depend on how they view Arcia. I’d add Dublin too. And agreed the money issue is there too for paying a FA

[Jenkins5]

Schoop messed up by starting cold. Guy could hit .500 with 1.200 OPS rest of way and we will still read how awful he is..... guy has been pretty darn productive after a really bad two weeks. Think it is something like .320 & .900+ OPS over past 20 game. Weird to me how that is considered so awful. If his 1st 20 games were this, think Schoop narrative would be a little different.

[tmwiese55]

Geezy nails it there. Schoop has been fine since the initial horrible start.

 

As if people here wouldn't be ticked if Gonzalez hit 240/320 after we give him 50 mil. It's just way less risk having the one year deal

[Devinep]

Instead of making it sound like Schoop just started bad and played well recently, we could look at how well he’s overall done. Let’s see if he’s hit well enough to cancel out his bad start. 204/252/357 to the tune of a 61 OPS+. I’m not sure saying he’s been bad is a narrative as much as it is fact

[stoutdude04]

 

 

Schoop does have more upside. Villar's never going to have a year like Schoop did last year. But if Schoop continues to stay within 25% of his career production this year and next, this trade is looking like a clear loss for the Brewers.

 

I think Villar's big year is nearly on par with Schoop last year.

[Bob Skube Snacks]

Is it just me or does this thread pick up every time there's a loss?? I think both sides of the argument have some merit. I agree that Villar fell out of favor; he really did make bone headed mistakes on the bases. I have to believe that was part of the issue. I mean 3 years of watching the same mistakes gets old. In a vacuum, I will also agree that those mistakes don't much matter when comparing two players in terms of total value.

 

There's always alternatives based on decisions. I don't think anybody is without criticism. So, I have no doubt there were other options or things could've played out differently. The best part about the trade for this season is Schoop's bat is capable of carrying a team in stretches/ series' if he gets hot. Whether or not that happens this year I don't know but that's something I don't think Villar could provide.

 

I mostly agree with this. Though I don’t agree at all with the notion that Villar’s bone-headedness is somehow on Counsell for not reaching him or some such silliness. Villar had two-plus years to get better and he did so only marginally.

 

Even if Villar and Schoop were “equal” (I think Schoop is better), the kinds of mistakes Villar made either killed in innings offensively or extended them for opponent defensively. I’ll take Schoop’s steadiness with the glove and on the basepaths over Villar’s peaks and valleys in the same departments any day of the week.

 

And while Schoop has undeniably struggled, some patience is in order too. I’ll bet your recollection of Ted Simmons’ Brewers’ career isn’t about his 1981 season in which he batted .216 and had a 0.3 WAR. He started an entire season slow, but reverted back to career norm for two years afterwards.

 

My point is that Schoop needs more than a month-plus for a fair assessment. Villar had two-and-a-half years which is plenty of time to assess that he was expendable, especially with Hiura coming soon.

[tmwiese55]

Instead of making it sound like Schoop just started bad and played well recently, we could look at how well he’s overall done. Let’s see if he’s hit well enough to cancel out his bad start. 204/252/357 to the tune of a 61 OPS+. I’m not sure saying he’s been bad is a narrative as much as it is fact

 

Yes, no one is going to deny he's been bad because that horrible start has to be factored in. It's just thinking a bit and realizing that you can find a 4-6 stretch for almost anyone where their stats suck. There's a legit argument to say he wasn't worth acquiring to begin with due to the low OBP and all that, but to base stuff off 5-6 weeks small sample is just foolish. If you need examples, go look at how Goldschmidt and Carpenter started the year. Just like anyone reasonable should have known that what Sogard did for his initial call up wasn't going to last.

[502 to Right]

Since the trade - Schoop 50 OPS+. Villar 106 OPS+

 

I guess Schoop can only hit for a team that sucks.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Since the trade - Schoop 50 OPS+. Villar 106 OPS+

 

I guess Schoop can only hit for a team that sucks.

 

Same with Villar

[502 to Right]

Since the trade - Schoop 50 OPS+. Villar 106 OPS+

 

I guess Schoop can only hit for a team that sucks.

 

Same with Villar

 

 

My comment was sarcasm given the people who dismiss Villar for that reason.

 

Unless Schoop turns into the second coming of Ryne Sanberg next year this trade sucked balls.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Since the trade - Schoop 50 OPS+. Villar 106 OPS+

 

I guess Schoop can only hit for a team that sucks.

 

Same with Villar

 

 

My comment was sarcasm given the people who dismiss Villar for that reason.

 

Unless Schoop turns into the second coming of Ryne Sanberg next year this trade sucked balls.

 

I'm kinda enjoying the win tonight ... but you do you

[PeaveyFury]

Interestingly, because of his defensive versatility and solid play on that side of the ball, Schoop has maintained a slightly positive WAR in Milwaukee despite his struggles with the bat. That aspect of his game has been a pleasant surprise.

[True Blue Brew Crew]

 

I'm kinda enjoying the win tonight ... but you do you

 

Seriously though. If the Brewers ever win the World Series, the first complaint about something will no doubt fly before the corks are popped on the champagne.

[pacopete4]

I enjoyed Villar. I wanted him to get more of a chance this season. I also think Schoop is a good player. The Brewers have a really good second half record so sometimes trades may affect things differently than just comparing Head to Head stats.

[StearnsFTW]

 

Same with Villar

 

 

My comment was sarcasm given the people who dismiss Villar for that reason.

 

Unless Schoop turns into the second coming of Ryne Sanberg next year this trade sucked balls.

 

I'm kinda enjoying the win tonight ... but you do you

 

I give the guy credit. When he sinks his teeth into something they stay there. He's like a pitbull.

 

Brewers win to get within 1/2 game of the Cubs? Who cares? Villar is better than Schoop!!!11!1!