Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[sveumrules]

With the amount of player movement nowadays, changing leagues isn't as big of a deal as it used to be, but that's also not to say it has zero effect either.

 

Ultimately these are human beings going through major life changes & each individual will respond to that differently.

 

Looking at Schoop's individual match ups he has 34 plate appearances (5th most PAs he has against any specific pitcher) against Chris Archer & has rocked him to the tune of a 1.353 OPS. In typical Schoop fashion the triple slash is 382/382/971.

[Pugger]

I'm not sure we gave up anything of value for Schoop is my one argument here. I think we culled some players who really weren't worth a 40 man roster spot. Schoop is roughly the same as VIllar offensively and is a better fielder at 2B at least. He offers some stability at the position next year until Hiura is ready to be called up as well. I probably would not have made that deal but I don't think it is some super failure either.

 

Is Schoop better at 2B defensively though? Jonathan Villar at nearly 1/3 the cost would have been a wiser stopgap if that is what we wanted. Not to mention Villar’s speed is a big boost over Schoop.

 

It was a confusing move at the time and keep looking worse by the day. I can only imagine the Brewers hoped 2017 Schoop was the real deal and that hot week he had was a sign of some sort it was still in him. Now it is blowing up in their face (so far).

 

It was pretty obvious, at least to me, that Counsell had lost faith in Villar. Moving him was probably best for both.

 

I seem to remember people grousing about Villar making boneheaded mistakes on the bases and fielding. It is unfortunate Schoop is struggling at the plate (probably pressing) but he looks to be a lot steadier defensively than Villar was.

[stoutdude04]

Schoop not even cracking the starting lineup in back to back days. I like Villar more than most, so this trade is really a bummer to me.

[jerichoholicninja]

Back to back RHP and Arcia hasn't been a black hole of suck lately.

[pacopete4]

Back to back RHP and Arcia hasn't been a black hole of suck lately.

 

...Perez starting today.

[stoutdude04]

Back to back RHP and Arcia hasn't been a black hole of suck lately.

 

As pointed out, Perez starting today. I would love to continue to see Arcia, but nope.

 

Also, I'm sure he wasn't brought in only intended to start against lefties.

[sveumrules]

It looks like the matrix of will Schoop start looks something like this so far...

 

Is a lefty pitching against the Brewers? Very likely, 6 of 7 games.

Is Anderson starting for the Brewers? Yes, 4 of 4 games.

Is Peralta starting for the Brewers? Yes, 4 of 4 games.

Is Guerra starting for the Brewers? Very likely 3 of 4 games.

Is Miley starting for the Brewers? Prolly not, 1 of 4 games.

Is Jhoulys starting for the Brewers? Prolly not, 1 of 5 games.

[jerichoholicninja]

The last 5 games he's played Schoop has went 5-12 with 2 HR to bring his OPS with the Brewers to .576, which is higher than Arcia has this year. It was .385 after his first 51 AB's with the club. So with 12 AB he's added almost 200 points to his OPS. I will agree he's looked like crap at the plate but 50 or so AB's is not enough to make any sort of a judgement about a players hitting.

 

For the other side of the trade, Villar has had some hot streaks in Baltimore, but overall his slash line is nearly identical to what he was doing in Milwaukee the last two years, albeit with a little more power.

[benji]

Yes. I think they do the goal line lineup with fly ball pitchers. I think after that Cubs game we wont see it with Guerra starting anymore.

[Jenkins5]

Since Trade

 

Carmona

18 for 86 4bb 25ks slash .209/.253/.256 .509 ops only .047 iso

 

Ortiz

5.7 K/9 4.50 FIP .... ERA in mid 3s but can’t miss a bat.

 

Schoop started terrible but has came on as of late & we have one more year of control. Month later. Still like the deal

[Boomer5]

Since Trade

 

Carmona

18 for 86 4bb 25ks slash .209/.253/.256 .509 ops only .047 iso

 

Ortiz

5.7 K/9 4.50 FIP .... ERA in mid 3s but can’t miss a bat.

 

Schoop started terrible but has came on as of late & we have one more year of control. Month later. Still like the deal

 

That would be great if Villar wasn’t outplaying Schoop by a big margin.

[TigerUppercut]

Since Trade

 

Carmona

18 for 86 4bb 25ks slash .209/.253/.256 .509 ops only .047 iso

 

Ortiz

5.7 K/9 4.50 FIP .... ERA in mid 3s but can’t miss a bat.

 

Schoop started terrible but has came on as of late & we have one more year of control. Month later. Still like the deal

 

That would be great if Villar wasn’t outplaying Schoop by a big margin.

 

The trade was made as much for next year as it was this year. I keep hearing how Hiura is this big, "can't miss" prospect but anyone with eyes can see that a .260ish hitter in AA needs at least another year riding on buses. Frankly, I'm starting to wonder if there's more hope and hype with him than hits.

[Jenkins5]

He had stellar June & beginning of July until injury. Really since the thumb injury & all of August he has struggled. Maybe injury, bad luck, or just a really rough month but I still believe in his bat. Never read a scout who has doubted his hit tool. In the end I don’t think one brutal month following a hand injury is a sign he needs longer.

 

My guess is Schoop is 2B next season, Keston AAA 2B until he forces call up or injury to Schoop occurs.

[jerichoholicninja]

Since Trade

 

Carmona

18 for 86 4bb 25ks slash .209/.253/.256 .509 ops only .047 iso

 

Ortiz

5.7 K/9 4.50 FIP .... ERA in mid 3s but can’t miss a bat.

 

Schoop started terrible but has came on as of late & we have one more year of control. Month later. Still like the deal

 

That would be great if Villar wasn’t outplaying Schoop by a big margin.

 

Neither has really been good. Villar's OPS is .723 with Balitmore and Schoop is at .653 with Milwaukee.

 

If you want to look at their last 20 games though, Schoop is blowing away Villar is the OPS department .865 to .677.

[clancyphile]

Neither has really been good. Villar's OPS is .723 with Balitmore and Schoop is at .653 with Milwaukee.

 

If you want to look at their last 20 games though, Schoop is blowing away Villar is the OPS department .865 to .677.

 

Schoop is trending in the right direction after a rough start. The trend can be a friend.

 

I'll take an .865 OPS at short any day of the week.

 

Re-sign Moose, Schoop at short, Shaw at second, Jesus at first.

 

Trade Arcia.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

Neither has really been good. Villar's OPS is .723 with Balitmore and Schoop is at .653 with Milwaukee.

 

If you want to look at their last 20 games though, Schoop is blowing away Villar is the OPS department .865 to .677.

 

Schoop is trending in the right direction after a rough start. The trend can be a friend.

 

I'll take an .865 OPS at short any day of the week.

 

Re-sign Moose, Schoop at short, Shaw at second, Jesus at first.

 

Trade Arcia.

 

Yikes. That sounds horrible..

[bill hAll Star]

Villar’s only production has come against junk pitching. Schoop struggles against a very tough schedule after the trade but it’s nit apples to apples because Villar put up 75% of his post-trade production in one series @Texas and a few games against Toronto.

[hurricanecrush]

Neither has really been good. Villar's OPS is .723 with Balitmore and Schoop is at .653 with Milwaukee.

 

If you want to look at their last 20 games though, Schoop is blowing away Villar is the OPS department .865 to .677.

 

Schoop is trending in the right direction after a rough start. The trend can be a friend.

 

I'll take an .865 OPS at short any day of the week.

 

Re-sign Moose, Schoop at short, Shaw at second, Jesus at first.

 

Trade Arcia.

You could move Moose to short, Shaw to second, Aguilar to first and Braun to third and Thames to Lf

[502 to Right]

Neither has really been good. Villar's OPS is .723 with Balitmore and Schoop is at .653 with Milwaukee.

 

If you want to look at their last 20 games though, Schoop is blowing away Villar is the OPS department .865 to .677.

 

Schoop is trending in the right direction after a rough start. The trend can be a friend.

 

I'll take an .865 OPS at short any day of the week.

 

Re-sign Moose, Schoop at short, Shaw at second, Jesus at first.

 

Trade Arcia.

You could move Moose to short, Shaw to second, Aguilar to first and Braun to third and Thames to Lf

 

Stearns will recommend Moose at SS, Shaw at 2B, Schoop at 1B, and Aguilar at 3B. It really doesn't matter because the Brewers shift so much they won't play those positions anyway.

[bill hAll Star]

Are the jokes about guys being out of position supposed to be funny at this point?

 

Seems like we’re getting exactly what was advertised/supported by some on here: better offense at the expense of (maybe?) slightly worse defense which we can sub out of later in games.

[Ennder]

Schoop hasn't been a better offensive player than Villar in his career so not sure why you would expect him to be now. He is a much better defensive 2B and to be honest a better defensive SS most likely. That is where the value is coming if it comes.

[coolhandluke121]

Are the jokes about guys being out of position supposed to be funny at this point?

 

That reminds me, I haven't heard any sarcastic jokes about the outfielders and 1b's lately.

 

C Aguilar

1B Thames

2B Braun

SS Shaw

3B Moustakas

LF Choi

CF Santana

RF Arcia

 

Get it? Because the Brewers are so dumb? HAHAHAHA!

[jerichoholicninja]

Schoop hasn't been a better offensive player than Villar in his career so not sure why you would expect him to be now. He is a much better defensive 2B and to be honest a better defensive SS most likely. That is where the value is coming if it comes.

 

Schoop has a higher career OPS and OPS+ than Villar. And Villar's career numbers are all propped up by his excellent 2016 season. I won't say definitively that Schoop has been the better hitter but to say Villar has been better is not correct at all.

[TURBO]

Villar, whether he deserved it or not, was in the doghouse. CC never played him on any kind of a regular basis. It wasn't going to change, so it was best we moved on.

[MrTPlush]

Schoop hasn't been a better offensive player than Villar in his career so not sure why you would expect him to be now. He is a much better defensive 2B and to be honest a better defensive SS most likely. That is where the value is coming if it comes.

 

Schoop has a higher career OPS and OPS+ than Villar. And Villar's career numbers are all propped up by his excellent 2016 season. I won't say definitively that Schoop has been the better hitter but to say Villar has been better is not correct at all.

 

Cause Schoop’s career OPS+ isn’t propped up by his one good season (2017) either.