Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[A Swing and A Drive]

Well he was the AL Player of the Week a few weeks back so as a Milwaukee Brewer fan I'm hoping he is just a streaky hitter.

 

However, his on base skills are less than desirable for a trade target.

 

IMO, the Brewer fans who rationalize that every Stearns move is brilliant "is beginning to get a little bothersome."

 

To each his own, I guess.

 

Go Brewers!

[bill hAll Star]

Well he was the AL Player of the Week a few weeks back so as a Milwaukee Brewer fan I'm hoping he is just a streaky hitter.

 

However, his on base skills are less than desirable for a trade target.

 

Yes, a guy that hacks at everything is going to be very streaky. I haven't seen a lot of his recent at-bats, but he's hit a lot of balls hard right at guys in a few I've seen. Everything's in play so he's going to have some weeks that he goes 14/27 at the plate with 3 HR and he's going to have a lot of 2/28 with 10 K weeks.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Well he was the AL Player of the Week a few weeks back so as a Milwaukee Brewer fan I'm hoping he is just a streaky hitter.

 

However, his on base skills are less than desirable for a trade target.

 

IMO, the Brewer fans who rationalize that every Stearns move is brilliant "is beginning to get a little bothersome."

 

To each his own, I guess.

 

Go Brewers!

 

Agree 100% with all of this. Schoop's profile as a hitter made him an odd choice as a trade target from the get-go, basically because the team's line-up is already stacked with several low OBP types.

 

But what's done is done, and if this team is going to make a run for the playoffs, it is in their best interest if Good Schoop shows up. I was excited by the pick-up initially, but I'm not going to lie and say Schoop's first week as a Brewer hasn't cast some doubt in my mind. It's almost like the Brewer middle infield curse has gone in reverse. Typically the guys become stars after leaving Milwaukee. This time, albeit in a very small sample, a good player has come to Milwaukee and significantly regressed.

[A Swing and A Drive]

But what's done is done, and if this team is going to make a run for the playoffs, it is in their best interest if Good Schoop shows up.

 

 

I'm thinking next week on the road against the Cubs and Cardinals would be a perfect time!

 

 

 

 

 

"We can bicker about this all night, but what's done is done"- Dale, STEP BROTHERS

[Boomer5]

Well he was the AL Player of the Week a few weeks back so as a Milwaukee Brewer fan I'm hoping he is just a streaky hitter.

 

However, his on base skills are less than desirable for a trade target.

 

IMO, the Brewer fans who rationalize that every Stearns move is brilliant "is beginning to get a little bothersome."

 

To each his own, I guess.

 

Go Brewers!

 

Agree 100% with all of this. Schoop's profile as a hitter made him an odd choice as a trade target from the get-go, basically because the team's line-up is already stacked with several low OBP types.

 

But what's done is done, and if this team is going to make a run for the playoffs, it is in their best interest if Good Schoop shows up. I was excited by the pick-up initially, but I'm not going to lie and say Schoop's first week as a Brewer hasn't cast some doubt in my mind. It's almost like the Brewer middle infield curse has gone in reverse. Typically the guys become stars after leaving Milwaukee. This time, albeit in a very small sample, a good player has come to Milwaukee and significantly regressed.

 

This is our concern, Dude.

[jonescm128]

Jonathan Schoop's first week as a Milwaukee Brewer

 

25 at bats

3 hits

0 bb

11 SO

2 r

3 rbi

.120 avg

.120 obp

.160 slugging

.280 ops

 

3 fielding errors

 

Better times ahead...

 

Stearns did it, We Believe it, That Settles it!

 

The posters here that seem to be taking pleasure in Schoop's poor play to prove themselves right are beginning to get a little bothersome.

 

 

I agree 100%. People need to give it a rest its getting extremely annoying.

[tmwiese55]

FYI in April Cain had a 1/19 5 game stretch. Yelich had a 4/22 which included a 1/15. There is no denying Schoop has been bad but for informed baseball posters it's hard to believe the overreactions to a few games. I guess first impressions go a long way. For example everyone loves Thames because of how he started last year, imagine if his June/July his how he started instead and his April came later, well actually he'd have been DFAd before it could have happened actually according to this thinking.

[FVBrewerFan]

Aguilar, Santana, Phillips, Braun, Cain, Yelich, Thames, Broxton - which of those guys do you completely DFA, leave exposed to rule 5, or leave a 100% bench role in 2019? Braun can get less time but he still has to be on your MLB roster.

 

My response earlier was to a poster who said Phillips was blocked, I pointed out he was NOT blocked. If his bat started speaking loudly, there would have been room for him.

 

In your list above, Santana is on the 40, so not exposed to rule 5. Thames would move back to 1B, and Broxton could be traded or DFA. Not to mention other trades they could have done in the off-season. You make room for a superb defensive OF who can hit. Point being, he wasn't traded because there's no room for him- he was traded because he can't hit.

[bill hAll Star]

Aguilar, Santana, Phillips, Braun, Cain, Yelich, Thames, Broxton - which of those guys do you completely DFA, leave exposed to rule 5, or leave a 100% bench role in 2019? Braun can get less time but he still has to be on your MLB roster.

 

My response earlier was to a poster who said Phillips was blocked, I pointed out he was NOT blocked. If his bat started speaking loudly, there would have been room for him.

 

In your list above, Santana is on the 40, so not exposed to rule 5. Thames would move back to 1B, and Broxton could be traded or DFA. Not to mention other trades they could have done in the off-season. You make room for a superb defensive OF who can hit. Point being, he wasn't traded because there's no room for him- he was traded because he can't hit.

 

This was kinda the point - one of those guys was blocked. If it wasn't Phillips, it was Broxton. We are kinda coming to the same point with different reasons but someone had to be dealt in the Phillips/Broxton/maybe Santana grouping and Phillips was chosen maybe for your reasons.

 

It would've been very hard to have Thames, Aguilar, Braun, Broxton, Phillips, Santana, Cain, and Yelich all on the roster next year unless they wanted to move Braun to 2B part time (half serious). Too many bodies with no options remaining and not enough playing time for their value. One of them had to go.

[monty57]

It would've been very hard to have Thames, Aguilar, Braun, Broxton, Phillips, Santana, Cain, and Yelich all on the roster next year unless they wanted to move Braun to 2B part time (half serious). Too many bodies with no options remaining and not enough playing time for their value. One of them had to go.

 

Throw in that we have Shaw, Moose, Schoop, Arcia and two catchers. We could have a hard time trimming our MLB roster to 13 position players. We could simply not exercise the options on Moose and/or Schoop, but that would be giving away talent for nothing. Rather, I think we'll see a pretty busy offseason with a few of our MLB guys being traded away. Even guys like Perez have too much value to simply cut loose.

 

It is nice that we're getting to a point where we have a surplus of talented players. It's much better than most of the Brewers' history where we've had a few guys who deserve to be on a MLB roster and a bunch of filler. And rarely in this team's history have we had to worry about having more than 40 talented guys that needed to be protected.

 

The Schoop deal may turn out to be good or bad, but overall this franchise is light years ahead of where it has been for most of the past 48 years.

[Boomer5]

Moose won’t be on the team next year unless we sign him as a FA. His option is mutual.

 

If Schoop doesn’t turn it around and fast, I’d have a tough time imagining we pay him $8.5M plus whatever he gets in arbitration.

[bill hAll Star]

Moose won’t be on the team next year unless we sign him as a FA. His option is mutual.

 

If Schoop doesn’t turn it around and fast, I’d have a tough time imagining we pay him $8.5M plus whatever he gets in arbitration.

 

1 year/$15m is debatable whether that would be a bad idea for him. It was the whole late offseason standoff thing, but he only signed for $6.5m this year (with the option) so it's quite possible that taking $15m is the right move for him. I'm sure he could sign 3/$25 instead or something, but he could bet on himself and go with the higher 1 year deal if we also wanted to pony up.

 

Obviously there are financial constraints of taking on Schoop's arbitration number ($10m?) and/or Mous's ($15), but I guess I could see it happen if Mark really wants to open up the pocketbooks for a year.

[Boomer5]

The problem is if he mashes he won’t resign for one year at almost any price, and if he hits like he has so far at 726, we won’t commit $15M. His pick up really doesn’t/didn’t make sense in the first place since we have Shaw and the 1B duo already set for 2019.

 

Schoop at $10M or whatever is self explanatory at least at this point.

 

$25M for two guys we really don’t need and who aren’t elite seem like a difficult bet for 2019.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Not sure I've seen the angle of retaining Schoop for 2019 should Hiura be used as part of trade package to land a stud starter with a few years of team control this winter, either. Or if Schoop rights the ship, he'll still have good value to trade this offseason should Hiura be deemed ready to play everyday in Milwaukee starting Opening Day 2019.

 

I have a very difficult time seeing any reason why Schoop would just be released - that would be terrible roster management even if Schoop doesn't get another hit this season. The likely 2019 gameplan is for Shaw to shift back to 3rd after Moose likely opts for FA this offseason, then Schoop is the opening day 2B with Hiura biding time at AAA until he's called up in Juneish.

[tmwiese55]

Adding to the end of Chorizo's plan in his post. If Arcia is still struggling at the time of Hiura's call up you can still give Schoop a lot of starts at SS as you're doing now.

[MrTPlush]

If Schoop is terrible for the rest of the year he will cost almost $10mil. Pretty easy to see why he could be released.

 

He hasn’t been worth $10mil this entire year...even before getting here.

 

That being said I doubt he gets released, even if it is warranted.

[wildcat2237]

If Schoop is terrible for the rest of the year he will cost almost $10mil. Pretty easy to see why he could be released.

 

He hasn’t been worth $10mil this entire year...even before getting here.

 

That being said I doubt he gets released, even if it is warranted.

 

I think non-tendered might be the right word.....not released... but yeah... he stinks and is not worth $10 million next year.

[SRB]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's slightly annoying to see so many Brewers fans attacking a new acquisition after a brief cold stretch, when that guy has a proven track record of being an excellent player. This isn't Yuniesky Betancourt...

 

That seems like the behavior of the dreaded "casual fan"

[JosephC]

Not sure I've seen the angle of retaining Schoop for 2019 should Hiura be used as part of trade package to land a stud starter with a few years of team control this winter, either. Or if Schoop rights the ship, he'll still have good value to trade this offseason should Hiura be deemed ready to play everyday in Milwaukee starting Opening Day 2019.

 

I have a very difficult time seeing any reason why Schoop would just be released - that would be terrible roster management even if Schoop doesn't get another hit this season. The likely 2019 gameplan is for Shaw to shift back to 3rd after Moose likely opts for FA this offseason, then Schoop is the opening day 2B with Hiura biding time at AAA until he's called up in Juneish.

 

Pretty good chance that the Brewer's preference would be to trade Schoop and sign a cheaper second baseman to bridge the gap to Hiura. However, there hasn't been much of a market for second baseman over the last year-plus. Schoop will be costly and will be coming off a bad year. I can see it being difficult for the Brewers to trade him.

 

If a trade can't be made immediately following the season, for me the decision is a no-brainer. Offer Schoop arbitration and pay him the money. Where was Carmona rated in the Brewer's system when this trade went down? 13th? Ortiz was an unquestionable top 10. So there was a top 10, another in the top 15 and Villar. A small market team can't give up that type of value for a 2 month rental. Schoop will turn 27 this off-season, so his age likely has nothing to do with this bad season. Even including the terrible numbers this season, his slash line from the beginning of 2016 until now is .269/.306/.466/.772, with a 162 game average of 30 home runs and 89 RBI. While he had some minor injury issues earlier this year, he played in 162 games in 2016 and 160 games in 2017. Last year he was an All-Star and finished 12th in MVP voting. The large sample size + age indicates that this is a solid major league second baseman who is just having a bad year.

[502 to Right]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's slightly annoying to see so many Brewers fans attacking a new acquisition after a brief cold stretch, when that guy has a proven track record of being an excellent player. This isn't Yuniesky Betancourt...

 

That seems like the behavior of the dreaded "casual fan"

 

This move stunk the moment it was made. It's gotten worse since then. Same with the Moose trade.

[trwi7]

when that guy has a proven track record of being an excellent player.

 

Can I just post the laughing emoji? All I really want to do right here is post the laughing emoji.

[PeaveyFury]

when that guy has a proven track record of being an excellent player.

 

Can I just post the laughing emoji? All I really want to do right here is post the laughing emoji.

 

?? I guess excellent might be a bit of a stretch, but he's been a 1.5-2-ish WAR player for much of his career before now.

 

And he WAS excellent last year, but one year does not make a track record.

[bill hAll Star]

Villar now since leaving @Texas is 1/8 with an error that could've cost the O's the game in the 9th last night.

 

"We don't need Schoop or Moustakas next year" - We're averaging 5.18 runs/game since the Moustakas trade with a mostly pitcher-friendly stretch and that includes Schoop basically not contributing. We have a deeper lineup that cannot be pitched around and that is no small thing.

 

Even the Rockies Thames game...when we get a few guys on - say Thames was batting 5 instead of 7th. Obviously with the butterfly effect, we have no idea if that game gets there, but they probably pitch carefully to Thames and then face Saladino, Miller, and Pina with no bench options in the pitcher spot if it gets there.

 

Instead, they go Mous, Aguilar, Shaw, Schoop, Thames with a 1 run lead. That is hard to pitch around.

 

I'm not saying it's worth $25 million to Mark, but having depth on the offense is very nice. If Hiura is going to be ready early next year, I'm not sure it's worth keeping both if in theory they both wanted to come back, but the offensive depth is not a small thing.

[FVBrewerFan]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's slightly annoying to see so many Brewers fans attacking a new acquisition after a brief cold stretch, when that guy has a proven track record of being an excellent player. This isn't Yuniesky Betancourt...

 

That seems like the behavior of the dreaded "casual fan"

 

Agreed. I would add a caveat, Schoop wasn't brought in to contribute over the course of the entire season. He was brought in for the two month pennant drive, so coming up on two weeks of horrible performance is a big chunk of that time frame.

 

But there's still a lot of games to be played, and Schoop could be the hero in September. That's, of course, when all the people calling for his head will quickly come here to post they were wrong.

[bill hAll Star]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's slightly annoying to see so many Brewers fans attacking a new acquisition after a brief cold stretch, when that guy has a proven track record of being an excellent player. This isn't Yuniesky Betancourt...

 

That seems like the behavior of the dreaded "casual fan"

 

Agreed. I would add a caveat, Schoop wasn't brought in to contribute over the course of the entire season. He was brought in for the two month pennant drive, so coming up on two weeks of horrible performance is a big chunk of that time frame.

 

But there's still a lot of games to be played, and Schoop could be the hero in September. That's, of course, when all the people calling for his head will quickly come here to post they were wrong.

 

Just like Chacin. Everyone that wanted to cut him after 3 starts has come back and admitted it :-).