Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[Eye Black]

This means NOTHING, but it is slightly ironic that Jonathan Villlar has gone 5-for-10 with the Orioles thus far.

[MrTPlush]

One thing I really hate about this is the fact Schoop will find himself on the bench a lot of days and I find Villar as a more attractive bench option. Works better ABs and has more speed. Literally the only thing Schoop even has on Villar is his “ability” to play SS. Production wise I’m not sure you can say difinitively which is better moving forward. If Schoop hits like crud this year this is going to be a really garbage trade.

 

You could claim we would non tender Villar at the end of the year, valid point and quite likely. People also mention Schoop has an additional year of control, however two things with that:

 

1) I doubt we hold back Hiura long in favor of Schoop...especially if Schoop isn’t hitting. This makes him a bench bat often next year.

 

2) More importantly Schoop is already making $8.5mil! If people are calling for Villar to be non-tendered at $2.55mil this year what exactly is the point to tendering Schoop at probably $10mil+. Schoop has been worse than Villar to date.

 

This trade is mainly about this year. That’s where he is most important...so far he has been awful. This could look terrible as just a Villar/Schoop swap...let alone giving up Ortiz and Carmona too.

 

Lots of time to change that though and in a competitive year a hot streak at the right time could put him in Brewers lore forever. Early results not looking very good.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

One thing I really hate about this is the fact Schoop will find himself on the bench a lot of days and I find Villar as a more attractive bench option. Works better ABs and has more speed. Literally the only thing Schoop even has on Villar is his “ability” to play SS. Production wise I’m not sure you can say difinitively which is better moving forward. If Schoop hits like crud this year this is going to be a really garbage trade.

 

You could claim we would non tender Villar at the end of the year, valid point and quite likely. People also mention Schoop has an additional year of control, however two things with that:

 

1) I doubt we hold back Hiura long in favor of Schoop...especially if Schoop isn’t hitting. This makes him a bench bat often next year.

 

2) More importantly Schoop is already making $8.5mil! If people are calling for Villar to be non-tendered at $2.55mil this year what exactly is the point to tendering Schoop at probably $10mil+. Schoop has been worse than Villar to date.

 

This trade is mainly about this year. That’s where he is most important...so far he has been awful. This could look terrible as just a Villar/Schoop swap...let alone giving up Ortiz and Carmona too.

 

Lots of time to change that though and in a competitive year a hot streak at the right time could put him in Brewers lore forever. Early results not looking very good.

 

Spot on Plush! Watching in person yesterday, he looked like a guy who is pressing. I’m not sure if he is wanting to impress so quickly? But watching his last few weeks in Baltimore to the past 4 games doesn’t seem to adequately show his talent. Hoping he turns it around. Like you said, only takes one hot streak for him to have a spot in Brewers lore.

[pacopete4]

This means NOTHING, but it is slightly ironic that Jonathan Villlar has gone 5-for-10 with the Orioles thus far.

 

It does mean nothing but it is great to see Villar start off well. I’m a fan and it will really be interesting to see how he does elsewhere. Hope he lights it up.

[xisxisxis]

Lost in all the discussion of whether Schoop is better than Villar is the over-riding data that Villar was in Counsell's doghouse.... So you can throw out all the data... CC wanted a replacement and this was the best Stearns could do with the caveat that we have a 2B for 2019 so that Hiura can be brought along reasonably and not on an ultra-fast timeline... Doesn't matter what Villar does for the rest of the year or next... He wasn't getting playing time while a Brewer, especially with the addition of Moustakis, so there's no point of comparing the 2 players...

[MrTPlush]

You can compare the two. Just makes Counsell look like an idiot if he was in his “doghouse”. Stearns gets the blame regardless if it ends up looking terrible. He is the one letting a manager decide what he does based on his “doghouse”. Someone’s fault...just who do you want to blame for it.

 

Which honestly I’m not sure if that is a legitimate rumor.

[DougJonesChangeUp]

We've all gotten new jobs where it just "clicks" or doesn't with our co-workers/bosses. Schoop definitely looks uncomfortable right now. Hopefully he regains some confidence because his swing and ball/strike recognition is comically bad right now. So bad I'm thinking/hoping his head must not be right.

[OldHeidelberg]

He has been with Baltimore his whole mlb career, I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't happy about the trade. But he will settle in and hopefully the pennant chase will light a fire under him. I didn't like the trade but it's nice having 6 HR hitters in the lineup and another off the bench, I am guessing it wasn't Stearns first choice on Tuesday but he did need to do something. Hopefully the dramatic win gets the entire offense going, we have enough sluggers now that more than 1 should be hot at a time.

[TURBO]

Lost in all the discussion of whether Schoop is better than Villar is the over-riding data that Villar was in Counsell's doghouse.... So you can throw out all the data... CC wanted a replacement and this was the best Stearns could do with the caveat that we have a 2B for 2019 so that Hiura can be brought along reasonably and not on an ultra-fast timeline... Doesn't matter what Villar does for the rest of the year or next... He wasn't getting playing time while a Brewer, especially with the addition of Moustakis, so there's no point of comparing the 2 players...

 

Word.

 

Villar wasn't going to see regular playing time with the Brewers, that is and was obvious. I don't know why he got himself into bad graces with CC, but he did, and his play with us was going to be a non factor.

 

Glad he is having success with Baltimore, I'll be pulling for the guy...

[young guns]

This means NOTHING, but it is slightly ironic that Jonathan Villlar has gone 5-for-10 with the Orioles thus far.

[sarcasm]Clearly, just like schoop, villar also prefers the low pressure of playing on a sucky team.[/sarcasm]

[Cirilloing]

You can compare the two. Just makes Counsell look like an idiot if he was in his “doghouse”. Stearns gets the blame regardless if it ends up looking terrible. He is the one letting a manager decide what he does based on his “doghouse”. Someone’s fault...just who do you want to blame for it.

 

Which honestly I’m not sure if that is a legitimate rumor.

 

So let's assume the rumors are true and Villar was in Counsell's dog house. That's not on Counsell. CC has the responsibility to maintain a certain culture in the locker room, to set expectations on how to conduct yourself. If Villar refused to evolve, at that point, it's addition by subtraction.

 

Schoop does not look like anything resembling confident right now, but once he finally settled in I'm sure he will produce.

[Boomer5]

Villar had 279 plate appearances this year and 436 last year. It’s not like they didn’t give him a chance.

[coolhandluke121]

It is worth noting though that Schoop does not walk, strikes out a bit more than most MI and he pops out a ton, this has been true his entire career. This really does set a pretty low floor for him, when he isn't seeing the ball well and hitting it hard he just doesn't bring a whole lot. For his career as a whole he has been a below replacement level hitter. In 2017 he was fantastic. So it is hard to know whether or not he is a good value or not long term. His defense has been where his value has largely come from in his career.

 

But it's more fun to overreact to the people overreacting than it is to have a balanced perspective like this.

[Lathund]

Villar has improved his defense, but offensively he is the exact same player as he was in 2017, except with even less power. His offensive output looks better (89 wRC+ vs 71 wRC+) for one reason only: Higher BABIP, mainly based off infield hits. He has the exact same batted ball profile in terms of location and hard contact % yet is getting better results. We're now almost 2 whole seasons removed from 2016 Villar, and there are no signs of him coming back. The improvement from 2017 to 2018 isn't real, other than defensively.

 

So losing Villar is not something I'm bothered with. Not a fan of the low-OBP swing at everything approach of Schoop either though, not even when it's working, but Villar doesn't factor into it.

[Never Outhustled]

You can compare the two. Just makes Counsell look like an idiot if he was in his “doghouse”. Stearns gets the blame regardless if it ends up looking terrible. He is the one letting a manager decide what he does based on his “doghouse”. Someone’s fault...just who do you want to blame for it.

 

Which honestly I’m not sure if that is a legitimate rumor.

 

Counsel would only look like an idiot if Villar wasn't in his doghouse. Villar was bad, and I'm relieved he's gone.

 

Schoop will eventually get hot and those who don't recognize his talent now will be relieved.

[MNBrew]

Like most here, I generally like this trade, although there's still an element of head-scratching to it. I think Schoop will come around and hopefully it will happen soon.

 

Villar was super good for one year at a level probably beyond most projections for him -- in other words, it seems his 2016 may well be the outlier. Then he regressed pretty significantly and has been pretty ordinary at best, and obviously not good enough to command the everyday 2B position over everyone else on the roster.

 

I like Villar for what his 2016 showed he's capable of. But the Brewers hoped & needed him to be somewhere -- anywhere -- in the same galaxy as his 2016 self and for ~1.6 years he hasn't been. At this point, to me that translates into him being off-season trade bait or, I think more likely, non-tendered.

[TURBO]

You can compare the two. Just makes Counsell look like an idiot if he was in his “doghouse”. Stearns gets the blame regardless if it ends up looking terrible. He is the one letting a manager decide what he does based on his “doghouse”. Someone’s fault...just who do you want to blame for it.

 

Which honestly I’m not sure if that is a legitimate rumor.

 

So let's assume the rumors are true and Villar was in Counsell's dog house. That's not on Counsell. CC has the responsibility to maintain a certain culture in the locker room, to set expectations on how to conduct yourself. If Villar refused to evolve, at that point, it's addition by subtraction.

 

 

I think you might be assuming too much. Has anyone ever heard anything about Villar being a problem with locker room culture?

 

I haven't...

[Bob Skube Snacks]

Man. There’s some folks on this thread that got immediate amnesia about the mental errors that were chronic with Villar. Baserunning stupidity that killed rallies. Ill-timed errors, etc.

 

If he was in the doghouse, he earned it.

[tmwiese55]

Villar basically did none of those things to end last year or at all this year though

[Bob Skube Snacks]

Que? He got hurt in Pittsburgh running into an out at third base.

[bork]

How do you go from a 12 game hitting streak to looking worse than Arcia at the plate?

[502 to Right]

This trade stunk. The Moose trade stunk. I have no idea what Stearns is thinking. I love the guy but these two moves make little sense.

[JosephC]

Schoop's a low OBP guy who has been known for bad offensive stretches. Kind of surprised that this is the guy who Stearns ended up getting. But it really can't be debated that the Brewers needed to be in near desperation mode to get runs from the bottom of the order. And despite BrewerFan's love for the minor league system, I really don't think Stearns had very many attractive pieces to deal if Hiura, Burnes, Peralta and Ray were removed from consideration.

 

My disappointment could be largely biased because I like OBP above all else when it comes to hitters. The Schoop/Moustakas combination seemed like a complete 180 from what Stearns was doing when he went out and acquired players like Yelich and Cain. Hopefully these guys will be able to get some key hits down the stretch.

[PeaveyFury]

This trade stunk. The Moose trade stunk. I have no idea what Stearns is thinking. I love the guy but these two moves make little sense.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that his thought process will work out just fine by the time this is all done.

[ThisIsMyCrew]

This trade stunk. The Moose trade stunk. I have no idea what Stearns is thinking. I love the guy but these two moves make little sense.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that his thought process will work out just fine by the time this is all done.

 

 

Yup!