Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[Boomer5]

It’s been two games. Sheesh.

[tmwiese55]

I wasn't a huge fan of the move or the low OBP either, but it's been 2 games. 2 games. For a guy who hit .293/.338/.503 last year and .360/.356/.700 last month. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but this is baseball, where even Mike Trout sometimes goes 6 games without a hit. So have at least a tiny bit of patience. That might be asking a bit too much of bf.net posters, or fans in general, though.

 

I believe there is a crazy stat that since Trout has been called up he hasn't gone more than 2 games without getting on base. Maybe it was 3 games, either way. Absolutely crazy

[jerichoholicninja]

Schoop was acquired for next year as much as this year. We have a year and a half to hate on him. Don't waste it all after two games.

[torts]

It’s been two games. Sheesh.

 

I know!

 

does anyone else feel like Schoop is rickie weeks pt 2?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It’s been two games. Sheesh.

 

I know!

 

does anyone else feel like Schoop is rickie weeks pt 2?

 

If Schoop turns out to be the 2010-11 version of Rickie, I don't think anyone would be complaining.

[tmwiese55]

Relax, it's 2 games and it's baseball where you fail 65-70% of the time even if you're doing well. Thankfully I couldn't watch last night, but in the first game he hit at least two of the balls hard that I remember.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if he gets tonight off though to let him catch his breath. Been a crazy couple days with him I'm sure getting things figured out, traveling cross country twice in a couple days. Lefty pitcher Saturday I believe

[Lathund]

I wasn't a huge fan of the move or the low OBP either, but it's been 2 games. 2 games. For a guy who hit .293/.338/.503 last year and .360/.356/.700 last month. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but this is baseball, where even Mike Trout sometimes goes 6 games without a hit. So have at least a tiny bit of patience. That might be asking a bit too much of bf.net posters, or fans in general, though.

 

I believe there is a crazy stat that since Trout has been called up he hasn't gone more than 2 games without getting on base. Maybe it was 3 games, either way. Absolutely crazy

 

Mike Trout is ridiculous. But he did have that 6-game hitless streak this year. Still got on base in 4 of them though, with 7 walks.

[buckybrewer232]

Way too early to freak out regarding Schoop, but I will admit he has looked pretty uninspiring so far. Watching Dozier mash against the Brewers certainly did not help either.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If Schoop truly does play SS a few games, that's the reason he was acquired instead of Dozier - we also have to remember Schoop had to face Kershaw in his second game, immediately after his 1st game that occurred following a short notice cross-country flight and insertion into the lineup as a cleanup hitter.

 

Give the dude a week or so to settle into his new surroundings, my goodness...

[A Swing and A Drive]

Brian Dozier is a much superior hitter, IMO. Just makes the addition of Schoop at the price we paid that much more puzzling.

 

And this isn't just about the last two games, either.

 

Schoop's track record of getting on base is atrocious. He didn't even walk one time in the month of July.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Brian Dozier is a much superior hitter, IMO. Just makes the addition of Schoop at the price we paid that much more puzzling.

 

Schoop is 5 years younger, has a full more year of team control, and is a better defender. Their career statlines have OPS separated by ~30 points - which include all of Dozier's prime and essentially the 1st year of Schoop's.

 

Much superior hitter at this stage in their careers, Dozier is not.

[tmwiese55]

I wasn't a huge fan of the move or the low OBP either, but it's been 2 games. 2 games. For a guy who hit .293/.338/.503 last year and .360/.356/.700 last month. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but this is baseball, where even Mike Trout sometimes goes 6 games without a hit. So have at least a tiny bit of patience. That might be asking a bit too much of bf.net posters, or fans in general, though.

 

I believe there is a crazy stat that since Trout has been called up he hasn't gone more than 2 games without getting on base. Maybe it was 3 games, either way. Absolutely crazy

 

Mike Trout is ridiculous. But he did have that 6-game hitless streak this year. Still got on base in 4 of them though, with 7 walks.

 

Yea it's just another one of the crazy Trout stats out there showing how beyond ridiculous he is.

 

I just looked at that streak. I think he'd have been 7/22 for obp in that stretch still and one of the games was a day off pinch hit appearance. It's also an example too of how BA isn't as important as obp to judge on, one of the games he was walked 4 times. tough to get a hit if they won't throw you a pitch.

[brewmann04]

Holy Overreaction you have to give the guy some time to adjust and stop pressing.

[Pugger]

Yes, let's see how he does at Miller Park this weekend.

[Boomer5]

At $8.5M now, what would his arby number be for next year?

[brewcrewdue80]

At $8.5M now, what would his arby number be for next year?

 

Well, added 3mil then 4mil in arbs so far. He's on a worse year thus far, so guess 3.5mil added is 12mil. But a hot finish and postseason maybe to 15mil.

[OnaBadger58]

Holy Overreaction you have to give the guy some time to adjust and stop pressing.

 

For a guy that flew from New York to Los Angeles to play a game that day and then go again Kershaw? This is not an overreaction, this guy is a straight scrub.

[Ennder]

It is worth noting though that Schoop does not walk, strikes out a bit more than most MI and he pops out a ton, this has been true his entire career. This really does set a pretty low floor for him, when he isn't seeing the ball well and hitting it hard he just doesn't bring a whole lot. For his career as a whole he has been a below replacement level hitter. In 2017 he was fantastic. So it is hard to know whether or not he is a good value or not long term. His defense has been where his value has largely come from in his career.

[rwa12]

When he gets hot it will be fun to watch, seems to have some Domingo in him. When he’s cold he’s ice cold, hot red hot. Not much gray area.

[Eye Black]

It is difficult to know what kind of offensive contribution to expect from Schoop at this point. He has a lot of experience for being just 26-years old. He has kind of been all over the place thus far in his career. As far as weighted runs created he has been well above and well below league average (of 100)...

 

2014 (481 PAs): 64 wRC+

2015 (321 PAs): 113 wRC+

2016 (647 PAs): 99 wRC+

2017 (675 PAs): 127 wRC+

2018 (375 PAs): 86 wRC+

 

[sarcasm]Seems like odd years are his thing.[/sarcasm] He has been up and down in waves with his production within those seasons as well. If from today on he could hit at or slightly above 100 wRC+ the rest of the season he would be a useful addition to the lineup. I do hope he hits in the #6 spot more often than the #4 spot going forward.

[SRB]

Schoop started at SS tonight and will likely be our everyday 2B next season. Major differences from Dozier.

 

As a hitter, the worst case Schoop is basically just Jonathan Villar, but the key difference is that the organization clearly does not think Villar can play innings at SS anymore. That versatility is why they were swapped, along with Schoop having much higher upside based on his 2017 and 2018 July.

[TexasCheesehead]

Schoop started at SS tonight and will likely be our everyday 2B next season. Major differences from Dozier.

 

As a hitter, the worst case Schoop is basically just Jonathan Villar, but the key difference is that the organization clearly does not think Villar can play innings at SS anymore. That versatility is why they were swapped, along with Schoop having much higher upside based on his 2017 and 2018 July.

 

Probably a dumb question, but is it basically a given that Moose isn't coming back in 2019?

[Lathund]

It is worth noting though that Schoop does not walk, strikes out a bit more than most MI and he pops out a ton, this has been true his entire career. This really does set a pretty low floor for him, when he isn't seeing the ball well and hitting it hard he just doesn't bring a whole lot. For his career as a whole he has been a below replacement level hitter. In 2017 he was fantastic. So it is hard to know whether or not he is a good value or not long term. His defense has been where his value has largely come from in his career.

 

Below replacement level??!?! 11.2 bWAR for his career, most of that coming from offense. Unless you're confusing average (He's at 99 OPS+) with replacement level?

[Lathund]

Schoop started at SS tonight and will likely be our everyday 2B next season. Major differences from Dozier.

 

As a hitter, the worst case Schoop is basically just Jonathan Villar, but the key difference is that the organization clearly does not think Villar can play innings at SS anymore. That versatility is why they were swapped, along with Schoop having much higher upside based on his 2017 and 2018 July.

 

Probably a dumb question, but is it basically a given that Moose isn't coming back in 2019?

 

If Schoop sticks around, and likely promoting Hiura at some point, playing time will be rough; unless Shaw is traded which seems unlikely.

 

But really, with a $15m mutual option, there are two scenarios; One is that playing time and performance makes it so that Brewers aren't too keen on paying $15m. If he plays well enough to be clearly worth $15m, then surely he'd want to try and get multiple years at that AAV on the open market. Didn't work last year, but there's no qualifying offer (and thus no loss of a draft pick) attached to him this year.

[Ennder]

 

Below replacement level??!?! 11.2 bWAR for his career, most of that coming from offense. Unless you're confusing average (He's at 99 OPS+) with replacement level?

 

Your right, I was thinking fangraphs OFF stat was 5 per win and it is 10. I don't use bWAR because it is generally outdated.

 

Since starting full time in 2014 Schoop is the 5th worst overall full time offensive contributor at 2B. If you go only by hitting he is the 8th worst.

 

I think people just need to go into this with realistic expectations, Schoop is not a big offensive upgrade over Villar. His defense is the upgrade and the hope that something about 2017 was for real and can be recaptured. Even if he managed that he had one of the biggest differences between wOBA and xwOBA In baseball that year so at best we hope for a muted version of 2017.