Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

That seems to imply that the Brewers weren't terribly close on Archer, but did kick the tires on bigger names like deGrom....

 

Part of me wonders if deGrom was the "pitcher almost acquired" that Stearns referred to yesterday. That would have been one heck of a splash.

 

 

Can't believe that was the deal..... not much news anywhere that deGrom was even on the market, much less traded. I was thinking more along the lines of Archer or Harvey.

 

You may be right. I'd be willing to bet the package the Brewers put out there for Archer likely focused on Ortiz and perhaps included Carmona too (along like names like Erceg, Lutz and Diplan). That's probably why they had to rush the Schoop deal to get in just before the deadline. They had to make sure they were out on Archer for committing to the Schoop trade. I think it was quite obvious that they weren't going to trade Hiura, Burnes, Ray and maybe even Peralta.

[Pugger]

Will Brewers fan develop a scoooooooop chant? Similar to Luuuuuuuc?

 

Along with Moooooose?

[zzzmanwitz]

Will Brewers fan develop a scoooooooop chant? Similar to Luuuuuuuc?

 

Along with Moooooose?

 

Moooooooose is much more likely. Sc"OOOOOHHHHHHH"pe doesn't have the same ring to it.

[homer]

This is a good synopsis of how playing time will probably be divvied up:

 

If shortstop doesn’t quite work out, then Schoop becomes a platoon guy who gets starts at second and third with the occasional shortstop start and a bunch of pinch-hits off the bench. It isn’t the worst outcome. Then, next season, Schoop can take over at second base while Shaw moves back to third base and Moustakas is gone. Schoop’s arrival also buys some time for the Brewers’ best prospect, Keston Hiura, who started the year at High-A and has hit well on his promotion to Double-A. He can now be eased into the Brewers lineup after some time at Triple-A next season. The Brewers might not have gotten the pitching they wanted; at worst, though, they added a bench bat and a potential starter for next season.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brewers-acquire-jonathan-schoop-presumably-to-play-infield/

[tmwiese55]

The Brewers have plenty of assets to get a top end pitcher this offseason. Throw in Nelson and Burnes and we have quite the depth, as well.

 

I don't think they'll view it as a need next year. Anderson, Chacin, Guerra have all been fairly solid. Nelson will hopefully be full strength and Burnes should be ready to step right in. Still have Davies, Woodruff, Peralta, maybe Miley as depth guys to fill in with injuries. If something presents itself I'm sure they'll consider it and look into if a good value but their starting pitching on paper should look much better going into next year than it did going into this year.

[tmwiese55]

This is a good synopsis of how playing time will probably be divvied up:

 

If shortstop doesn’t quite work out, then Schoop becomes a platoon guy who gets starts at second and third with the occasional shortstop start and a bunch of pinch-hits off the bench. It isn’t the worst outcome. Then, next season, Schoop can take over at second base while Shaw moves back to third base and Moustakas is gone. Schoop’s arrival also buys some time for the Brewers’ best prospect, Keston Hiura, who started the year at High-A and has hit well on his promotion to Double-A. He can now be eased into the Brewers lineup after some time at Triple-A next season. The Brewers might not have gotten the pitching they wanted; at worst, though, they added a bench bat and a potential starter for next season.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/brewers-acquire-jonathan-schoop-presumably-to-play-infield/

 

That's the way I look at it too. And I'd add in that it provides injury insurance on the whole infield so that if someone goes down you're not playing Perez/Salad every day during the playoff chase.

[adambr2]

Assume we play about 40% of our remaining games against lefties (should be close to that) and 60% against righties, we could divvy it up like this:

 

Shaw and Moose start 100% of the time against RHP and split against LHP. 80% of all starts each.

 

Against LHP, Schoop always starts vs. LHP at 2nd and Arcia always at SS. They split the righties at SS. 70% of all starts each.

 

In this scenario everyone starts at least 70% of games and you still have room for PH and defensive replacements late too.

 

My reservation with my own plan here is that both of Schoop and Arcia are reverse split types who don't really fit as a platoon player.

[tmwiese55]

Schoop the last two years is better vs lefties, I think the reverse was only early in his career. Arcia basically can't hit vs anyone so that's not much of anything to consider for me.

[xisxisxis]

sume we play about 40% of our remaining games against lefties (should be close to that) and 60% against righties, we could divvy it up like this:

 

Shaw and Moose start 100% of the time against RHP and split against LHP. 80% of all starts each.

 

Against LHP, Schoop always starts vs. LHP at 2nd and Arcia always at SS. They split the righties at SS. 70% of all starts each.

 

In this scenario everyone starts at least 70% of games and you still have room for PH and defensive replacements late too.

 

My reservation with my own plan here is that both of Schoop and Arcia are reverse split types who don't really fit as a platoon player.

 

I'd include Brewers pitching as part of the equation (i.e. Defense). The Brewers starters are 28th in the majors in GB% with Peralta and Anderson as having the lowest GB% followed closely by Guerra... Given Chacin and Miley are both high GB% pitchers, Arcia should start when they are on the mound, but we should consider Schoop for starts at SS when Peralta & Anderson are pitching and possibly Guerra as Arcia's defense is minimized when there aren't many GB...

[homer]

sume we play about 40% of our remaining games against lefties (should be close to that) and 60% against righties, we could divvy it up like this:

 

Shaw and Moose start 100% of the time against RHP and split against LHP. 80% of all starts each.

 

Against LHP, Schoop always starts vs. LHP at 2nd and Arcia always at SS. They split the righties at SS. 70% of all starts each.

 

In this scenario everyone starts at least 70% of games and you still have room for PH and defensive replacements late too.

 

My reservation with my own plan here is that both of Schoop and Arcia are reverse split types who don't really fit as a platoon player.

 

I'd include Brewers pitching as part of the equation (i.e. Defense). The Brewers starters are 28th in the majors in GB% with Peralta and Anderson as having the lowest GB% followed closely by Guerra... Given Chacin and Miley are both high GB% pitchers, Arcia should start when they are on the mound, but we should consider Schoop for starts at SS when Peralta & Anderson are pitching and possibly Guerra as Arcia's defense is minimized when there aren't many GB...

 

Yep. And our bullpen has a huge K% so the defensive issues are mitigated to a degree there.

[3and2Fastball]

I can pretty confidently say that I am the biggest Villar fan who regularly posts on Brewerfan, and even I love this trade.

 

Huge depth now, multiple lineup options... Bigtime power potential from Schoop & Moose... I like it!

 

Having Schoop in 2019 will help plenty too, gives Hiura more time to develop in AAA.

 

Re: Jean Carmona. I like Brice Turang a lot more.

[clancyphile]

Then again, for sheer offense, can you beat Moustakas at third, Schoop at shortstop, Shaw at second, and Aguilar at first?

 

That could be the starting infield through 2019.

 

An infield that provides 120 or more home runs over the course of a season - add that to the outfield of Yelich, Cain, and Thames... Braun as a DH and someone giving guys a break at LF, RF, or 1B...

 

This is a true Craig's Crushers lineup.

[xisxisxis]

sume we play about 40% of our remaining games against lefties (should be close to that) and 60% against righties, we could divvy it up like this:

 

Shaw and Moose start 100% of the time against RHP and split against LHP. 80% of all starts each.

 

Against LHP, Schoop always starts vs. LHP at 2nd and Arcia always at SS. They split the righties at SS. 70% of all starts each.

 

In this scenario everyone starts at least 70% of games and you still have room for PH and defensive replacements late too.

 

My reservation with my own plan here is that both of Schoop and Arcia are reverse split types who don't really fit as a platoon player.

 

I'd include Brewers pitching as part of the equation (i.e. Defense). The Brewers starters are 28th in the majors in GB% with Peralta and Anderson as having the lowest GB% followed closely by Guerra... Given Chacin and Miley are both high GB% pitchers, Arcia should start when they are on the mound, but we should consider Schoop for starts at SS when Peralta & Anderson are pitching and possibly Guerra as Arcia's defense is minimized when there aren't many GB...

 

Yep. And our bullpen has a huge K% so the defensive issues are mitigated to a degree there.

 

Actually our Bullpen is 3rd in the majors in GB% so there's a good argument that when the SP comes out, Arcia should be the first defensive substitution (if he isn't already in the lineup) and if Schoop comes in it should be at 2B...

[TURBO]

Then again, for sheer offense, can you beat Moustakas at third, Schoop at shortstop, Shaw at second, and Aguilar at first?

 

That could be the starting infield through 2019.

 

An infield that provides 120 or more home runs over the course of a season - add that to the outfield of Yelich, Cain, and Thames... Braun as a DH and someone giving guys a break at LF, RF, or 1B...

 

This is a true Craig's Crushers lineup.

 

I am surely hoping that for 2019, we have an actual RF and Thames is traded.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Then again, for sheer offense, can you beat Moustakas at third, Schoop at shortstop, Shaw at second, and Aguilar at first?

 

That could be the starting infield through 2019.

 

An infield that provides 120 or more home runs over the course of a season - add that to the outfield of Yelich, Cain, and Thames... Braun as a DH and someone giving guys a break at LF, RF, or 1B...

 

This is a true Craig's Crushers lineup.

 

I am surely hoping that for 2019, we have an actual RF and Thames is traded.

 

Domingo version 2.0 - hopefully more 2017 than 2018...or that guy leading the Southern League in HR (although Ray probably needs a bit more time to develop)

[homer]

 

 

Yep. And our bullpen has a huge K% so the defensive issues are mitigated to a degree there.

 

Actually our Bullpen is 3rd in the majors in GB% so there's a good argument that when the SP comes out, Arcia should be the first defensive substitution (if he isn't already in the lineup) and if Schoop comes in it should be at 2B...

 

Interesting. I didn't realize that.

[A Swing and A Drive]

Some thoughts on the Deadline Day trade...

 

[brewcrewdue80]

Ha, I read this all, thanks a long way back, mentioning I called a Villar/Ortiz value for Schoop.

Im not even familar with Carmona, and his loss doesnt bother me. We got away from the frustrating player Villar presents. (I've liked him but he lacked some common sense) Ortiz was an easy sell high. One of the 40man crunches forthcoming who is a SP that can't achieve over 100IP it seems in 4years. To talented to put in the bullpen, but 2years away at beston his pace to reach a modest SP innings limit. That should have been year 1 this season, and iit's no way happening this year. Maintains the 40man flexibility vs usage on a Minor Leaguer stuck in the mud.

 

Schoop is an improvement on depth and potential. Could trade him in the offseason, but this clearly puts to rest any Hiura call ups this season.

 

All in all, we kept the guys we really didnt want to part with and Im glad. No mortgage the future, it is still brightly shining.

[YelichPosse]

Biggest issue I have with this trade is my brain keeps saying shoop. Def not scope.

 

It’s a brain-tying name for sure.

[TURBO]

Biggest issue I have with this trade is my brain keeps saying shoop. Def not scope.

 

It’s a brain-tying name for sure.

 

I'm not alone then? lol I can't stop thinking SHOOP, even though I know it's scope.

 

Hopefully, after watching so many games it will be beaten into my head.

[Eye Black]

Here are some great

of Jonathan Schoop from 2004. Schoop led Curaçao to the championship along with teammate Jurickson Profar. Based on the video it looks like Schoop will be just fine at Shortstop.

 

And of course Harold Reynolds immediately puts an “Ozzie Smith” comp on the 12-year old Schoop.

[SomewhereInTime]

Looks like we traded away Ortiz for a worse version of Hernan Perez. I would say it's just a couple bad games but he has 100 games this year with an OBP south of .280 and a walk rate of 3%. That is not a good baseball player.

[A Swing and A Drive]

And to make it worse, it was a “not a good” baseball player that we didn’t need.

 

With that said, he’s now a Brewer and is entering his prime so we need to cut him some slack and hope for the best. Shaw is a superior player IMO and it’s frustrating knowing that he will be losing abs this season because of this move.

 

However...

Stearns did it, I believe it, that settles it!

[Lathund]

I wasn't a huge fan of the move or the low OBP either, but it's been 2 games. 2 games. For a guy who hit .293/.338/.503 last year and .360/.356/.700 last month. Maybe it works out, maybe it doesn't, but this is baseball, where even Mike Trout sometimes goes 6 games without a hit. So have at least a tiny bit of patience. That might be asking a bit too much of bf.net posters, or fans in general, though.

[coolhandluke121]

I am always a little worried about a guy who won't take a pitch. They can have some good years early, but if they don't adjust when teams stop giving them pitches to hit, that's a huge problem. Look at Hernan. He looked like he could be a decent player in 2016, but opposing pitchers just toy with him now.

 

Schoop is obviously a lot more talented, but he's going to be a frustrating and inconsistent player if he doesn't take more walks.