Brewers trade for Schoop; give up Luis Ortiz, Jean Carmona, and Jonathan Villar

[Bnowell4evr]

I can see the reasoning behind this trade if Schoop is going to play some SS. Both Moustakas and Schoop should play everyday in our lineup with Shaw platooning with Arcia.

 

VS RHP

3B Moustakas

SS Schoop

2B Shaw

 

 

VS LHP

3B Moustakas

SS Arcia

2B Schoop

 

 

That power vs RHP is insane. Last year Moustakas, Schoop and Shaw hit 38, 32 and 31 HR's! Plus The extra quality player on the bench would ease the pain of all the double switches that the team does. Against RHP with all that extra power, they could get an early lead and bring in Arcia to improve the defense. If they're trailing against a LH starter and they bring in a RH reliever, then you have a LH power bat who could change the course of the game in a swing.

 

I'm really hoping this is how it shapes up. It would be fun to watch all those DINGERZ!

[pacopete4]

I'm done talking Sogard until he's back up..... my opinion of him brings out the worst in people so it seems.

 

By the way, he isn't even playing at Colorado Springs..... on a reserve list? What is this exactly?

 

Probably more charity. It rains for some people.

[YelichPosse]

I'm done talking Sogard until he's back up..... my opinion of him brings out the worst in people so it seems.

 

By the way, he isn't even playing at Colorado Springs..... on a reserve list? What is this exactly?

 

I’m beginning to think you are Eric Sogard, rick lol.

 

Kidding aside...

 

Villar wore out his welcome with CC and he just didn’t trust him or give him the leash he needed. I really think he is a Carlos Gomez waiting to happen. If the same thing happens with him , he will burst out in Baltimore (Gomez was with Mets, then Twins before breaking out here). And everyone will say DS is a nut job etc... but we all know, he would not succeed here in this current time structure.

 

Ortiz is so so, conditioning concerns are enough for me to worry he would be he next Ruben Quevedo.

 

Carmona, May be a good player in the long run but still has a lot of developing to do.

 

All that said - Schoop - if he produces how he has recently and like last year, over the next year and a half, I think we will be very happy. And when he hits the game winning home run in the bottom of the 9th of the wild card game , y’all will celebrate this day for a long while lol.

 

It’s not a huge overpay. It has the chance of being a Brewers win. But won’t b a glaring loss I don’t believe! Good outside the box work DS!

[sveumrules]

FanGraphs with a ranking of all the prospects moved at the deadline...

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/ranking-the-prospects-traded-at-the-deadline-2/

 

Ortiz (12), Carmona (21), Medeiros (41), Lopez (48) & W. Perez (55).

 

Looks like they missed Maverick but they had him at a 45 FV before the season so he'd probably be in the 9-15 range.

[YelichPosse]

FanGraphs with a ranking of all the prospects moved at the deadline...

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/ranking-the-prospects-traded-at-the-deadline-2/

 

Ortiz (12), Carmona (21), Medeiros (41), Lopez (48) & W. Perez (55).

 

Looks like they missed Maverick but they had him at a 45 FV before the season so he'd probably be in the 9-15 range.

 

 

Two hot takes.

 

We did very well getting what we got for what we spent.

 

The first description of Ortiz is husky. Ruben. Quevedo.

 

I wish we got a starter but honestly we did ok!

[Cirilloing]

And...if they look like you(Jordy in GB)....it helps a little.

 

Get out of here with this garbage. Lets go back to 2008...who was the most beloved Packer? Donald Driver, the black guy. Who was the most hated player in the league in WI? Brett Favre, the white redneck guy.

 

Sogard was a fan favorite in Milwaukee for same reason as any other team - he started out hot. The casual fan does not watch every game, and when a new guys comes in and they talk how great he is right away because he hits .500 for the first week that makes an impression. Then no one noticed he got 2 hits in August. If he started out with 2 hits his first month no one talks about him and he is gone.

 

Excellent straw man you've built.. He never said Sogard was Wisconsin's favorite player. He just inferred that this happens with overachieving white players in predominantly white areas. I would agree with this and also add that sometimes they dont even have to achieve anything, just show flashes. I think the effect is probably more pronounced the lower the percentage of white players in a given sport. None of my argument is empirical, just my gut feeling. Im white btw.

 

I dont see this as being a racism or privilege thing, it seems more like a relatability thing.

[markedman5]

CC confirms he will see time at SS

 

[Montezuma]

Wishing Villar the very best with the American League. Love the trade and we now have a productive lineup on the field and off the bench. Well Done David Sterns. WELL DONE

[TJH123]

Sorry but can’t say I’m sad that Villar is gone. Few players have ever frustrated me as much as he did. I’m glad we didn’t give up Burnes, Peralta or Hiura as the deadline has passed. Shaw, Moustakas and Schoop should each man a starting position in the infield, Arcia is the odd man out. I like him a lot but he has just performed terribly this year and the team is trying to make the playoffs. He can still get some PT to give a guy an off day or in case of an injury but that’s probably it. Most days it looks like it will be Shaw at second, Schoop at short and Moose at 3rd.

 

Moose has an expensive team option after this year, so my thinking is they will decline it, Schoop has arbitration but should still be decently cheaper than Moustakas to retain, so I think he’ll be back next year and then he is a unrestricted FA after 2019. Moose like I said will probably be gone after this year, unless Stearns wants to give him $15 million. If he helps us win a World Series, then I could see Stearns paying him big bucks for 1 more season. Shaw should be here at least a few more years, and if Moose is gone he will move back to 3rd base, which would immediately open the door for Keston Hiura at second, which was the main point I was getting at. The way I see it, next year the infield will likely be Shaw at 3rd, Schoop at short and Hiura at second, because I think he’s ready. Otherwise if they want to give him a lot of time in AAA, then Schoop will probably be at second and Arcia will be at short next year, unless Moose is brought back which who knows if it will happen. We’ll see what happens. For now I like this move and our lineup should be deadly.

[markedman5]

And...if they look like you(Jordy in GB)....it helps a little.

 

Get out of here with this garbage. Lets go back to 2008...who was the most beloved Packer? Donald Driver, the black guy. Who was the most hated player in the league in WI? Brett Favre, the white redneck guy.

 

Sogard was a fan favorite in Milwaukee for same reason as any other team - he started out hot. The casual fan does not watch every game, and when a new guys comes in and they talk how great he is right away because he hits .500 for the first week that makes an impression. Then no one noticed he got 2 hits in August. If he started out with 2 hits his first month no one talks about him and he is gone.

 

Excellent straw man you've built.. He never said Sogard was Wisconsin's favorite player. He just inferred that this happens with overachieving white players in predominantly white areas. I would agree with this and also add that sometimes they dont even have to achieve anything, just show flashes. I think the effect is probably more pronounced the lower the percentage of white players in a given sport. None of my argument is empirical, just my gut feeling. Im white btw.

 

I dont see this as being a racism or privilege thing, it seems more like a relatability thing.

 

I think people tend to have a fondness for guys who play hard and smart ...overachiever types....but if they end up sucking that fondness goes away rather quickly.

 

Don't think color has anything to do with it but I do understand the general concept.

 

I have always had a fondness for undersized white shooting guards in basketball because in my youth I was that guy.......but my favorites are all mostly black because other then Larry Bird and Pistol Pete most of the really great players I have watched have been black.

[SRB]

Splits: career / this season

 

Moustakas vs. LHP: .300 wOBA / .300 wOBA

Moustakas vs. RHP: .323 wOBA / .336 wOBA

 

Shaw vs. LHP: .308 wOBA / .246 wOBA

Shaw vs. RHP: .353 wOBA / .384 wOBA

 

Schoop vs. LHP: .304 wOBA / .300 wOBA

Schoop vs. RHP: .325 wOBA / .308 wOBA

 

I don't totally get these moves, to be honest. If you're going to have too many guys for too few positions, at least try to add a guy with complementary platoon splits. (Hernan Perez can arguably fill that role, he strongly favors LHP but hasn't been used that way this season)

 

I don't think Travis Shaw should ever be sitting, he is the best player out of the three and even though he's been awful against LHP this season his career numbers vs. LHP are the best. I would start Shaw at 3B and Schoop at 2B almost everyday and let Moustakas be a bench/utility guy, though Counsell is almost surely not going to do that.

 

If Schoop is a legitimate option at SS then this makes a lot more sense.

[82brewcrew82]

CC must have gotten a talking to from DS. He has changed his tune and it certainly sounds like Schoop is going to be playing some SS.

[adambr2]

CC must have gotten a talking to from DS. He has changed his tune and it certainly sounds like Schoop is going to be playing some SS.

 

I thought this was odd. Counsell said at first no Schoop wasn't going to play SS, they Stearns says yes, then Counsell backtracks. Does not appear that they were on the same page which you kind of assume they would be on this.

[Ennder]

illar wore out his welcome with CC and he just didn’t trust him or give him the leash he needed. I really think he is a Carlos Gomez waiting to happen. If the same thing happens with him , he will burst out in Baltimore (Gomez was with Mets, then Twins before breaking out here). And everyone will say DS is a nut job etc... but we all know, he would not succeed here in this current time structure.

 

The difference was that Gomez was a plus defender so you could excuse some of the other flaws. Villar is bad defensively so if he isn't working out elsewhere he has no value at all.

[jerichoholicninja]

illar wore out his welcome with CC and he just didn’t trust him or give him the leash he needed. I really think he is a Carlos Gomez waiting to happen. If the same thing happens with him , he will burst out in Baltimore (Gomez was with Mets, then Twins before breaking out here). And everyone will say DS is a nut job etc... but we all know, he would not succeed here in this current time structure.

 

The difference was that Gomez was a plus defender so you could excuse some of the other flaws. Villar is bad defensively so if he isn't working out elsewhere he has no value at all.

 

Gomez also crashed and burned his way out of Milwaukee and everywhere since. Won't be missing either of them.

[brewmann04]

I hate losing Ortiz because I believe we never have enough young arms. We seem to have not only major league logjam but minor league jam with Hiura and Dubon. But I be curious if DS can add a waiver wire trade still.

[NievesNoNO]

illar wore out his welcome with CC and he just didn’t trust him or give him the leash he needed. I really think he is a Carlos Gomez waiting to happen. If the same thing happens with him , he will burst out in Baltimore (Gomez was with Mets, then Twins before breaking out here). And everyone will say DS is a nut job etc... but we all know, he would not succeed here in this current time structure.

 

The difference was that Gomez was a plus defender so you could excuse some of the other flaws. Villar is bad defensively so if he isn't working out elsewhere he has no value at all.

 

Gomez also crashed and burned his way out of Milwaukee and everywhere since. Won't be missing either of them.

 

I won't miss Villar. I was wrong on him after his big season. Just too many bone headed base running mistakes to forgive with the rest of his profile.

 

Gomez hasn't been anything since he left, but man at his peak he was electric. LOOOVVED watching him play. For me, he's one of the few players that was worth the price of admission.

[tigerbrew]

I like this trade, we added another big bat into the lineup who plays both 2B and SS. What's more Schoop is not a rental, we have him for next season too, and we didn't give up much to get him.

[LouisEly]

I hate losing Ortiz because I believe we never have enough young arms. We seem to have not only major league logjam but minor league jam with Hiura and Dubon. But I be curious if DS can add a waiver wire trade still.

As for young arms, they have Burnes, Peralta, Woodruff, Z. Brown (I know that the Brewers are very high on him), Houser, and Supak. Good chance this offseason they trade one, possibly two, of Anderson/Davies/Guerra and restock with a few younger arms.

 

The Brewers are definitely short on arms in the lower levels though. Need some of those HS arms from the last few drafts (Lillis, Lemons, Murphy, Lazar, Bullock, Morales, Jarvis, Gonzales, Olsen) to pan out, but it will be a while.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Did a little digging - Schoop has outperformed Machado offensively over the past month or so, and his above average defense at 2B probably translates to being a better SS defender than what Machado was there as well. It will be very interesting to compare the contributions these two provide LA and the Brewers from here on out.

 

With Schoop having 1 more year until free agency, I'm guessing DS got a statistically comparable player to the top rental bat on the market using a similar trade package that he offered for Machado, and he'll have Schoop for another year of team control to either play in Milwaukee or eventually trade to restock the farm next year.

[Tbadder]

The more I think about this trade the more I like it because it sets up next year. We’ll almost certainly lose the Moose, and almost just as certainly strengthen the starting staff in the off season. I don’t think we’re WS bound this year, but I could see it next year. If that’s the case it could be a brilliant preemptive move on Stearns’ part. But still, Carmona hurts, really hurts. Here’s hoping that Turang (sic?) makes us all scoff at missing Carmona. In DS We Trust.

[BruisedCrew]

I’m surprised that the Brewers added two infielders, but did nothing to address catcher or starting pitching.

 

But, as this sinks in, there are a couple of things about which I have to remind myself. The first is that, we don’t know who it will be, but it is almost certain that somebody in the “position player group” will get injured before the end of the season. I just hope it isn’t too many guys and that they won’t be out for too long. But the depth that we’re discussing today will probably be thinner at times and it will be nice to be able to plug in a stronger bat than Orf or Sogard. Also, the Brewers like to give almost everyone a day off at least once a week. The added depth allows them to do that without fielding a notorious “Sunday lineup” and it will also allow them to have some bigger bats on the bench when needed. Hopefully this will all make the everyday players fresher in September.

 

I still expect the Brewers to make some kind of waiver deal for a starting pitcher before the end of August. I am concerned that the Cubs and Pirates (who both have slapped the Brewers around already this year) have done a lot more to bolster their pitching. The head to head games against those teams could be crucial.

[TooLiveBrew]

Please leave the Sogard & race discussion where it lies. Nothing bad yet, so let's leave it alone.

 

Thank you!

[brewmann04]

I agree about a DS trade in August

[Ennder]

The catching issue really isn't as big as people want to make it out to be. Pina has been an above average catcher so far in his slightly over a year career. His BABIP is down right now and it is deflating everything but he is hardly a problem. A better backup C would be nice for sure but it isn't the huge weak link people keep suggesting it is. I'd love a SP but it apparently just isn't happening. We are going with the starter gets us 4 to 5 innings and we abuse the bullpen and hope it survives it path. It can work but it is certainly risky and any injuries to the bullpen will derail it.