Archer to Pirates for Meadows/Glasnow/Baz

[bill hAll Star]

What has Theo honestly done since he took over for the Cubs? The only really big one I can really think of to give him credit for is Bryant. Baez was from the previous regime. Throwing a bunch of money at the pen has worked for the most part, but he has managed to build about the least efficient rotation in baseball when you consider bang for buck. Darvish is early but looks terrible so far, Quintana looks like an overpay, and it was ridiculous what he gave up for Chapman.

 

He honestly did a better job rebuilding them and acquiring young talent than he has turning them into a contender. If he had waited on his young talent, they'd probably be a 110 win team and head and shoulders the best in the NL.

 

Well, this is always an interesting point to me. First, it was Epstein's plan to draft bats and pay for pitching...but disregarding that and knowing you have 10-15 elite/good bats either on your roster or coming up 4-5 years ago and that you have the opportunity to go up to $150 and eventually $200 million...what else are you going to do?

 

Maybe a blind squirrel would also be able to build a pitching staff like this, but if your plan is to get a ton of underpaid bats/defenders via the draft/minors and then pay for a slightly above average WAR pitching staff, he's executing it. Any trade (Arrieta, Quintana (yes, lost value)) is a bonus.

 

This is somewhat akin to the Rockies situation to me. They've got a pitching staff that is literally making $5 million dollars (combined) this year and is under control for several more. They've maybe overpaid Ian Desmond but otherwise have a relatively affordable set of bats (maybe $80 million combined). They also have a window of still having Arenado and Blackmon's prime.

 

So knowing that they had maybe $90 million covered with an OK offense and minors depth (Dahl, McMahon), a good, young starting staff...and your owner tells you that you have a $130-140 million budget...wouldn't it make sense to overpay some relievers on short-term deals? Of course, they're made fun of to no end because Wade Davis is now a $5 million pitcher making $15 million for 3 years. Nothing is really hurting them long term even if some of those contracts were duds.

 

;tldr - we make fun of any GM of a larger market when they have some overpaid players to fill needs on a competitive team...it's a league full of a finite amount of MLB caliber, imperfect players. If you are a larger market and have money to spend, you knowingly overpay at certain points. I think giving up Torres for Chapman and Eloy/Cease for Quintana can absolutely come into question, but large market GMs sometimes get the opportunity to knowingly overpay players to fill a void. Sometimes it works out very well, of course. Lester seems every week like he's going to regress (hard contact issues this year) and he's still put up very good value on that contract.

 

The Astros did it perfectly but for every Astros there are 10 tank/rebuilds that amounted in very little. I'm all for tanking and being shrewd with prospects/contracts, but it's still very hard to make it work.

 

Also ;tldr - in these same threads we make fun of the Marlins for not spending an extra $30 million to field a 78 win team we rip the larger market GMs for spending an extra $30 million to go from an 87 win team to a 92 win team.

 

The Phillies are paying Arrieta and Carlos Santana $50 million this year to be a solid pitcher and a borderline bench bat. Was it stupid? I don't really think so. They had a window of a few years where they could afford to overpay a few guys to fill needs while they have younger arby guys. It's not going to affect their ability to keep any of their core and they still can attempt to get Harper or someone of that ilk if they want to.

[illiniguy]

What has Theo honestly done since he took over for the Cubs? The only really big one I can really think of to give him credit for is Bryant. Baez was from the previous regime. Throwing a bunch of money at the pen has worked for the most part, but he has managed to build about the least efficient rotation in baseball when you consider bang for buck. Darvish is early but looks terrible so far, Quintana looks like an overpay, and it was ridiculous what he gave up for Chapman.

 

He honestly did a better job rebuilding them and acquiring young talent than he has turning them into a contender. If he had waited on his young talent, they'd probably be a 110 win team and head and shoulders the best in the NL.

Id say getting Kyle Hendricks and Carl Edwards for Ryan Dempster, Anthony Rizzo for Andrew Cashner, and Jake Arrieta and Pedro Strop for Scott Feldman were ok trades......

 

Oh and Addison Russell for Jeff Samardzija.

 

You had me until Russell for Samardzija. Not sure which of those two has been worse overall. Both have been below average.

 

If only there was a stat that gave you that information on player value..... Like for example Addison Russell has been worth 12.4 WAR in 3 and a half seasons. Meanwhile in 11 years, Shark has been worth 12.2. Russell has made the league minimum, while Shark has earned $100,000,000 since the trade. Yes, it's a real toss up who has been more valuable....

[torts]

a pirates thread that turned into a Cubs discussion

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

What has Theo honestly done since he took over for the Cubs? The only really big one I can really think of to give him credit for is Bryant. Baez was from the previous regime. Throwing a bunch of money at the pen has worked for the most part, but he has managed to build about the least efficient rotation in baseball when you consider bang for buck. Darvish is early but looks terrible so far, Quintana looks like an overpay, and it was ridiculous what he gave up for Chapman.

 

He honestly did a better job rebuilding them and acquiring young talent than he has turning them into a contender. If he had waited on his young talent, they'd probably be a 110 win team and head and shoulders the best in the NL.

What? They’re going to have the best record in the NL from 2015-2018 after the year, have a WS, and 3 straight NLCS appearances and another playoff appearance this year. How isn’t that building a contender? Plus they still are going to be good for at least 3-5 more years. I only can hope we have a run like that some day.