Wilson Ramos to Phillies

[bill hAll Star]

Return not yet known.

[And That]

It's a PTBNL.

[Fear The Chorizo]

It's a PTBNL.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if there are a couple lists of prospects the Rays will be able to choose from based on how soon Ramos actually returns to game action.

[Roderick]

It's a PTBNL.

 

Wouldn't surprise me if there are a couple lists of prospects the Rays will be able to choose from based on how soon Ramos actually returns to game action.

 

May even end up cash.

 

Seems like something I hope the Brewers looked into. One downside scenario is Ramos is still out a long time and you pay his salary and send over some cash. Other downside is he is not 100% but comes back to play and ends up costing the best player on the PTBNL list.

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/mlb-trade-deadline-deal-really-work-phillies-need-wilson-ramos-get-healthy-quickly

 

Ramos’ health situation was “factored into the components of the deal,” according to Klentak. In other words, the Phils didn’t give up much for him. They will send a player to be named later or cash to Tampa Bay to complete the deal. Ramos, who will be a free agent at season’s end, is owed about $2.8 million for the remainder of the season and the Phils will have no trouble swallowing that.

[adambr2]

Ramos went 3 for 4 with 3 RBI in his debut with Philly tonight in a 7-4 win over Boston.

 

I really really wish we had been a little more aggressive here. It cost the Phillies basically nothing and he's one of the best catchers in baseball. It was a low priced lottery ticket with a big potential payoff with our catcher position being a black hole.

 

A 2 week wait after the deadline would have been more than worth it.

[Eye Black]

 

 

I couldn’t agree more, Ramos would have been quite a boon for the Brewers offense down the stretch.

[ClosetBrewerFan]

Why do we think the return was light. Its a PTBNL. That could mean any minor leaguer in their system not on the 40 man. Remember Michael Brantley was a PTBNL.

[adambr2]

Why do we think the return was light. Its a PTBNL. That could mean any minor leaguer in their system not on the 40 man. Remember Michael Brantley was a PTBNL.

 

The main benefit for Tampa was unloading a few million, which we could have easily taken on.

 

I've never heard of a "PTBNL or cash considerations" being anything of significance. In almost all cases, if a PTBNL is significant it is known ahead of time.

 

It is going to be a light return. IF it ends up being a player, probably something along the caliber of a Yeison Coca PTBNL.

[Brewever]

Why do we think the return was light. Its a PTBNL. That could mean any minor leaguer in their system not on the 40 man. Remember Michael Brantley was a PTBNL.

 

The main benefit for Tampa was unloading a few million, which we could have easily taken on.

 

I've never heard of a "PTBNL or cash considerations" being anything of significance. In almost all cases, if a PTBNL is significant it is known ahead of time.

 

It is going to be a light return. IF it ends up being a player, probably something along the caliber of a Yeison Coca PTBNL.

 

 

Yes would have been nice to get him...jeez and for nothing??

 

Well played Stearns.

[liveforoctober]

Why do we think the return was light. Its a PTBNL. That could mean any minor leaguer in their system not on the 40 man. Remember Michael Brantley was a PTBNL.

 

The main benefit for Tampa was unloading a few million, which we could have easily taken on.

 

I've never heard of a "PTBNL or cash considerations" being anything of significance. In almost all cases, if a PTBNL is significant it is known ahead of time.

 

It is going to be a light return. IF it ends up being a player, probably something along the caliber of a Yeison Coca PTBNL.

 

 

Yes would have been nice to get him...jeez and for nothing??

 

Well played Stearns.

 

You say this as if Ramos was available to us at a small cost and Stearns decided against it. This may or may not be the case, but what inside information do you have that says Stearns never initiated talks on a Ramos deal?

[sveumrules]

Yes would have been nice to get him...jeez and for nothing??

 

Well played Stearns.

 

Any player acquired for nothing is being acquired from the so called trash can, otherwise there would be an acquisition cost greater than zero.

 

I thought we already had too many players like this & it reeked of desperation?

[BruisedCrew]

Regardless of whether the Brewers had a shot at Ramos (who would have been a nice addition, especially if Pina is headed for the DL) it’s another example of other playoff contenders doing more to improve their teams than the Brewers have.

[Brewer Fever]

Is Wilson Ramos better than Pina with a pitching staff? Will the Phillies realize a net gain even if Ramos bats .300 with them? Will their pitchers pitch better or worse with Ramos behind the plate? What is the calibur of the PTBNL? Do you people even ask yourselves these questions? Is there a point having this discussion with people who don't ask these questions? Is this real? What is the meaning of life? Are any of us real people or are we all just robots typing words? What was it that I ate this morning that has me so gassy?

[jonescm128]

Why do we think the return was light. Its a PTBNL. That could mean any minor leaguer in their system not on the 40 man. Remember Michael Brantley was a PTBNL.

 

The main benefit for Tampa was unloading a few million, which we could have easily taken on.

 

I've never heard of a "PTBNL or cash considerations" being anything of significance. In almost all cases, if a PTBNL is significant it is known ahead of time.

 

It is going to be a light return. IF it ends up being a player, probably something along the caliber of a Yeison Coca PTBNL.

 

The PTBNL in the Chris Archer trade was Shane Baz. 2017 first round pick and top 100 prospect.

[adambr2]

Is Wilson Ramos better than Pina with a pitching staff? Will the Phillies realize a net gain even if Ramos bats .300 with them? Will their pitchers pitch better or worse with Ramos behind the plate? What is the calibur of the PTBNL? Do you people even ask yourselves these questions? Is there a point having this discussion with people who don't ask these questions? Is this real? What is the meaning of life? Are any of us real people or are we all just robots typing words? What was it that I ate this morning that has me so gassy?

 

As you would have noticed if you had read through the thread, we already discussed the caliber of the PTBNL, which as I noted is basically a nothing burger, so yes, we were asking those questions.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/reminder-phillies-got-wilson-ramos-172611044.html

 

The Rays took the cash, so that answers one of your condescending questions. There is no PTBNL.

 

To answer others: Yes, there would be a significant net gain if Ramos hits. 300, as there would be for us over Pina. No, I cannot prove to you that Ramos would be better with a pitching staff any more than I can prove that Realmuto would be, even though the pitching staff has been awful in August. I don't know if the Brewers pitchers would be better or worse with Ramos, though it would be hard for them to be worse lately.

 

To answer a final one, no, there is really no point in you having a discussion with people about anything if your only response is to belittle those who might disagree or question any possible move that the Brewers did or didn't make.

[adambr2]

Why do we think the return was light. Its a PTBNL. That could mean any minor leaguer in their system not on the 40 man. Remember Michael Brantley was a PTBNL.

 

The main benefit for Tampa was unloading a few million, which we could have easily taken on.

 

I've never heard of a "PTBNL or cash considerations" being anything of significance. In almost all cases, if a PTBNL is significant it is known ahead of time.

 

It is going to be a light return. IF it ends up being a player, probably something along the caliber of a Yeison Coca PTBNL.

 

The PTBNL in the Chris Archer trade was Shane Baz. 2017 first round pick and top 100 prospect.

 

And we knew right from the start that the PTBNL in the Archer deal was going to be of significant value. Completely different. It wasn't "PTBNL OR cash".

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/reminder-phillies-got-wilson-ramos-172611044.html

 

Again, the Rays took the cash. So the PTBNL was indeed of no significance.

[adambr2]

To answer others: Yes, there would be a significant net gain if Ramos hits. 300, as there would be for us over Pina. No, I cannot prove to you that Ramos would be better with a pitching staff any more than I can prove that Realmuto would be, even though the pitching staff has been awful in August. I don't know if the Brewers pitchers would be better or worse with Ramos, though it would be hard for them to be worse lately.

 

You've indicated that if Ramos produces at the plate, he would be a clear gain. When in fact you have no idea whether he'd subtract more than he'd add when his work with the pitching staff and behind the plate is factored in. There are also countless other things you don't know about what in terms of what other factors were weighed or what took place before the Rays ultimately sent Ramos to Philadelphia.

 

We all have to base our conclusions on the information we have available, as none of us have access to every bit of information possible. I find your logic to be extremely poor -- if one were to use it, you could not argue for JT Realmuto over Erik Kratz as I can't be absolutely certain he will mesh with our current pitchers well enough to justify the bat upgrade.

 

My opinion was simply that because of our lack of a good catcher plus the low cost and availability of Ramos, coupled with the fact that he's a very good offensive and defensive catcher, that he should have been pursued more aggressively.

 

That's a perfectly reasonable opinion under our circumstances and I have every right to it. In my opinion you are vastly overcomplicating it. I don't think there are very many impartial observers who wouldn't conclude that Wilson Ramos is an upgrade over Manny Pina and makes the 2018 Brewers a better team than they are.

[Brewever]

Yes would have been nice to get him...jeez and for nothing??

 

Well played Stearns.

 

Any player acquired for nothing is being acquired from the so called trash can, otherwise there would be an acquisition cost greater than zero.

 

I thought we already had too many players like this & it reeked of desperation?

 

 

That's what you got put of this topic?

 

Ok, compared to the catchers we have now would you consider Ramos to be of the trash heap variety?

 

I certainly dont..

 

The players we usually acquire from the trash heap that are bad are not only bad they are trash. Sogard, Miller, Z..

 

Ramos is anything but those... so..

 

Stearns is fine he doesn't need people on message boards to have his back.

 

People keep taking me saying "I am not as high in Stearns as some" as me hating the guy.

 

With as many people that gush all over Stearns, saying I'm not as high on him as some doesn't sound that bad. Heck maybe I like the guy, but just don't have a crush on him...

 

It is ok to be critical of someone and not hate them....lol. This needs to be explained?

[adambr2]

Yes would have been nice to get him...jeez and for nothing??

 

Well played Stearns.

 

Any player acquired for nothing is being acquired from the so called trash can, otherwise there would be an acquisition cost greater than zero.

 

I thought we already had too many players like this & it reeked of desperation?

 

 

That's what you got put of this topic?

 

Ok, compared to the catchers we have now would you consider Ramos to be of the trash heap variety?

 

I certainly dont..

 

The players we usually acquire from the trash heap that are bad are not only bad they are trash. Sogard, Miller, Z..

 

Ramos is anything but those... so..

 

Stearns is fine he doesn't need people on message boards to have his back.

 

People keep taking me saying "I am not as high in Stearns as some" as me hating the guy.

 

With as many people that gush all over Stearns, saying I'm not as high on him as some doesn't sound that bad. Heck maybe I like the guy, but just don't have a crush on him...

 

It is ok to be critical of someone and not hate them....lol. This needs to be explained?

 

Yep. Ramos is on pace to be about a 3.5 WAR player this year. His OPS is over .850. He plays a position of obvious weakness on the team. He is also a strong defensive player-- we are not talking about acquiring Johnny Estrada.

 

He was acquired for nothing but cash. Considering what we were willing to give up for rentals at positions that we weren't weak at, I think it's very fair to question and be disappointed that we didn't do enough to acquire Ramos.

 

Ramos is a top 5 player at his position. No one should consider him a trash heap player just because it was a trash heap price tag, to me that's just even more reason to think it was a big missed opportunity.

[Brewer Fever]

Ramos is a top 5 player at his position.

 

Please share your evaluations of more MLB players please. It's clear that you are a valuable resource for player evaluation. I know this because I couldn't find one ranking of Ramos in the top 10 of all MLB catchers much less the top 5. That's not to say there aren't any rankings out there with Ramos in the top 10. It's just clearly not as cut and dry as you so kindly declare for us right here. What a valuable resource you are. Anyway here's just a sample of clearly misguided rankings where Ramos isn't top 10....

 

https://www.mlb.com/news/buster-posey-remains-atop-2018-top-10-catchers/c-265337230

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2757515-mlb-position-power-rankings-2018-brs-top-30-catchers#slide0

 

https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/articles/mlb_39s_top_10_catchers_for_2018/s1_13132_25710683

 

https://www.lifestylesports101.com/mlb-ranking-the-top-10-catchers-heading-into-2018/

 

https://calltothepen.com/2018/02/02/top-10-catchers-2018-mlb-season/

 

They're obviously all wrong. It's as simple as you put it - Wilson Ramos is a top 5 player at his position.

[adambr2]

Regardless of whether the Brewers had a shot at Ramos (who would have been a nice addition, especially if Pina is headed for the DL) it’s another example of other playoff contenders doing more to improve their teams than the Brewers have.

 

I was mostly on board with the other rental moves (although losing Medeiros hurt), and I thought we did so well in some areas to improve our team, but I definitely feel like we missed a good opportunity on this one. Considering that the Rays received only cash from the Phils for Ramos I think a prospect along the lines of another potential Rule 5 casualty, such as Bickford, probably would have been enough to deal with us over the cash for the Rays and I think that would have been a worthwhile investment.

[Brewever]

Regardless of whether the Brewers had a shot at Ramos (who would have been a nice addition, especially if Pina is headed for the DL) it’s another example of other playoff contenders doing more to improve their teams than the Brewers have.

 

I was mostly on board with the other rental moves (although losing Medeiros hurt), and I thought we did so well in some areas to improve our team, but I definitely feel like we missed a good opportunity on this one. Considering that the Rays received only cash from the Phils for Ramos I think a prospect along the lines of another potential Rule 5 casualty, such as Bickford, probably would have been enough to deal with us over the cash for the Rays and I think that would have been a worthwhile investment.

 

 

Our lineup would have been ALOTA better with the addition of Ramos, now add in the fact we coulda had him for little to nothing, that's the part that hurts the most.

[adambr2]

Regardless of whether the Brewers had a shot at Ramos (who would have been a nice addition, especially if Pina is headed for the DL) it’s another example of other playoff contenders doing more to improve their teams than the Brewers have.

 

I was mostly on board with the other rental moves (although losing Medeiros hurt), and I thought we did so well in some areas to improve our team, but I definitely feel like we missed a good opportunity on this one. Considering that the Rays received only cash from the Phils for Ramos I think a prospect along the lines of another potential Rule 5 casualty, such as Bickford, probably would have been enough to deal with us over the cash for the Rays and I think that would have been a worthwhile investment.

 

 

Our lineup would have been ALOTA better with the addition of Ramos, now add in the fact we coulda had him for little to nothing, that's the part that hurts the most.

 

Catcher I agree remains a need. There might be one last really good option left -- Francisco Cervelli. He's about right up there with Ramos in many aspects IMO. The fact that he's in the NL, and comes with a bit of a heavy price tag, presents a chance for him to make it to us on waivers. The Pirates have been fading -- they're not contending. Like they did last year with Nicasio, they may rather dump some payroll the last couple months here if they can rather than bank on the minuscule chance of making a run.

 

Cervelli would be a huge addition if obtained, and like Ramos, is by no means a poor defensive catcher.

[JosephC]

Stearns probably had no interest in getting a catcher because the Brewers need a catcher. It makes much more sense to trade for a third baseman when it's not needed, and then move the other third baseman to second base, then trade for a second baseman, but since the third baseman is now at second base, then the new second baseman goes to shortstop.

[adambr2]

Stearns probably had no interest in getting a catcher because the Brewers need a catcher. It makes much more sense to trade for a third baseman when it's not needed, and then move the other third baseman to second base, then trade for a second baseman, but since the third baseman is now at second base, then the new second baseman goes to shortstop.

 

What surprised me a bit about the lack of connection to Ramos is that they reportedly were interested in a catcher before the deadline. Now maybe it was just smoke, but if they indeed were (Pittsburgh wasn't a seller at the time), Ramos you think would have made the most sense and it certainly appears they could have acquired him.

 

Unless they were after a really big fish like Realmuto, but I doubt that they were looking at that route.