Brewers Trade for Mike Moustakas, Royals receive Phillips and Lopez

[dlk9s]

502 is playing the internet message board game perfectly. If Shaw is bad at second base, he triumphantly posts, "SEE! TOLD YOU SO!"

 

If Shaw is fine, 502 posts, "Phew, never so happy to be wrong! Go Brewers!"

[rickh150]

Moose has a $15 million mutual option for next year. Perhaps we keep him. Interesting. Not necessarily a rental! Would the Brewers dangle Shaw with Santana and two of Burnes, Peralta, Hiura for deGrom?

 

Stearns wants an ace..... said it before, and he has a few days to get it. Still shocked if it's deGrom, though.

[brewmann04]

I am still thinking it be a starter that comes out of LF go get it done DS

[brewmann04]

with all these shifts now that the Brewers does Shaw play on that side ?

[brewmann04]

I can't wait to see what Starter will be a brewer come tuesday?

[Eye Black]

How long does a flight from New York to San Francisco take? Assume he will be suited up by Sunday.

about 6 hour flight

Well Counsell said he would be playing tomorrow, so I assume he’ll be on a cross country flight in the morning (if not the red eye).

[Eye Black]

Moose has a $15 million mutual option for next year. Perhaps we keep him. Interesting. Not necessarily a rental! Would the Brewers dangle Shaw with Santana and two of Burnes, Peralta, Hiura for deGrom?

 

Stearns wants an ace..... said it before, and he has a few days to get it. Still shocked if it's deGrom, though.

With Scott Boras as his agent and no draft pick compensation tied to him this year I think he’ll be inclined to look for a multiple year deal covering his early 30’s.

[Boomer5]

I don't see Shaw, one of the least athletic players we have ever had, turning a DP.

 

There will be more trades.

[Boomer5]

Boras is not accepting a $15M option if Moose plays well.

[clancyphile]

Moose has a $15 million mutual option for next year. Perhaps we keep him. Interesting. Not necessarily a rental! Would the Brewers dangle Shaw with Santana and two of Burnes, Peralta, Hiura for deGrom?

 

Stearns wants an ace..... said it before, and he has a few days to get it. Still shocked if it's deGrom, though.

 

Keeping Moose at third, go with Shaw at second, Aguilar at first...

 

I'd think maybe more along the lines of dealing Ortiz and Arcia to Detroit for Mike Fiers might fit the bill. Fiers provides the second-best ERA for s starter on the team, still has 2019 under control (thus, not a rental), and solidifies the rotation. That allows the Crew to move Peralta to the pen as another relief ace.

[SeaBass]

Moustakas has a .375 xwOBA which is 48th best in baseball this season among players with 250+ PAs, and third best on the Brewers now behind Jesús Aguilar (.391 xwOBA / 25th in MLB) and Christian Yelich (.380 xwOBA / 38th in MLB).

 

Also, I know they selected B.J. Surhoff (#1 overall) and Rickie Weeks (#2 overall), but have the Brewers ever traded for a former top two MLB draft pick? Moustakas was the #2 overall selection behind David Price in 2007.

Ben Grieve comes to mind but I don't recall how he was acquired.

[502 to Right]

I've calmed down now. There's no way Stearns intends for Shaw to play more than a game or two at 2B. This is a ruse to keep Shaw's trade value from plummeting while Stearns completes whatever deal he has cooking that involves Shaw.

[clancyphile]

I've calmed down now. There's no way Stearns intends for Shaw to play more than a game or two at 2B. This is a ruse to keep Shaw's trade value from plummeting while Stearns completes whatever deal he has cooking that involves Shaw.

 

Suppose it's Thames or Aguilar on the move instead?

 

Move Thames, then have Aguilar at first, move Yelich to right, Cain in center, Shaw in left?

 

Or maybe deal Aguilar for an ace even up, put Shaw at first, and use the extra 40-man spot for Keston Hiura at second?

[Boomer5]

I've calmed down now. There's no way Stearns intends for Shaw to play more than a game or two at 2B. This is a ruse to keep Shaw's trade value from plummeting while Stearns completes whatever deal he has cooking that involves Shaw.

 

Clearly. Shaw can't and won't play 2B.

[trwi7]

I've calmed down now. There's no way Stearns intends for Shaw to play more than a game or two at 2B. This is a ruse to keep Shaw's trade value from plummeting while Stearns completes whatever deal he has cooking that involves Shaw.

 

So who plays 3rd next year then? You better be getting a pretty significant upgrade somewhere else if you're trading Shaw and either paying Moustakas $10 or more million than Shaw would make or finding someone else if Moustakas leaves.

[Boomer5]

Moose has been pretty bad after April.

 

Something more must be happen by July 31

[topper09er]

Moustakas has a .375 xwOBA which is 48th best in baseball this season among players with 250+ PAs, and third best on the Brewers now behind Jesús Aguilar (.391 xwOBA / 25th in MLB) and Christian Yelich (.380 xwOBA / 38th in MLB).

 

Also, I know they selected B.J. Surhoff (#1 overall) and Rickie Weeks (#2 overall), but have the Brewers ever traded for a former top two MLB draft pick? Moustakas was the #2 overall selection behind David Price in 2007.

 

We traded Gorman Thomas and others for #2 pick Rick Manning

 

We signed Ben McDOnald, a #1 pick, traded him but then traded back for him 3 months later. We also signed Tyler Houston so we had the top 2 pics from the 89 draft.

[paul253]

I don't see Shaw, one of the least athletic players we have ever had, turning a DP.

 

There will be more trades.

 

That’s whats we assumed when we signed Cain and traded for Yelich. We all assumed more moves would be coming and nothing did.

[danzig6767]

The negativity centers on Shaw playing 2B. Why? He will be shifted when we are up late in games.

If it was no big deal defensively to put big lumbering corner infielders with power at secondbase instead of lesser hitting, but more athletic and skilled fielders, this would be common.

 

His lack of range will not only show up often, he hasn't turned a double play in his life. The footwork involved in that quick pivot, the various types of tosses from a secondbaseman to the shortstop depending on where a ball is fielded, the jumping over sliding baserunners while throwing, throwing from various arm angles, etc etc.

 

All of those things are skills honed by middle infielders via years and years playing the position. You don't pick that up taking some practice pre-game once in awhile the last few weeks with no baserunner baring down.

 

Look how many times key double plays only get the guy out at first by a step, half a step, or less with skilled middle infielders who have been turning double plays since they were kids.

[badger3034]

I think what I'm most concerned about is that people are okay with Thames playing RF regularly. He is not an outfielder, and some suggesting Shaw playing LF is ridiculous. We need to trade Thames for something, anything. Hopefully pair him with some package of prospects for some starting pitching, and I'll be happy.

 

CF: Cain

RF: Yelich

1B: Aguilar

3B: Moose

2B: Shaw

LF: Braun

C: (hopefully Nottingham, or someone better like JT Realmuto, who would be higher in the lineup)

SS: (hopefully someone better than Arcia)

P

 

Would be my normal batting order

[trwi7]

The footwork involved in that quick pivot, the various types of tosses from a secondbaseman to the shortstop depending on where a ball is fielded, the jumping over sliding baserunners while throwing, throwing from various arm angles, etc etc.

 

Not only this but Shaw is slow. Like turtle slow. There's a fairly decent chance that he doesn't even beat some runners to 2B much less catch the ball with a runner coming at him and pivoting for a throw to 1st.

 

And for guys like Billy Hamilton? Every plate appearance I would have would be trying to bunt it past the pitcher. Either Shaw has to field it and it's going to take him a while to get there or whoever is playing 1st is going to have to field it and Shaw will have to get over to cover 1st, which he isn't going to be able to do fast enough.

 

There is just no way anyone can look at Shaw, his body type, watching how fast he is when he's running the bases and think playing him in the middle infield is a good idea. I'm not going to say it's the worst idea in the world because a manager could theoretically make Mike Trout a 5th outfielder or something but unless there's athleticism that I have never seen, this is one of the dumber things I've seen a team try to do.

[Lathund]

I'll trust that Stearns knows what he's doing, but this is a deal I personally don't understand. I don't see how Shaw would be a decent 2B, and I'm not sure the dropoff in defense is made up for by Moose's bat either. Adding another guy who gets on base at a below-average rate is not what I'd want to see when we really struggle with that aspect, with keeping rallies going, with working counts and knocking out starters. But someone made a good point earlier about the park factors, going from one of the worst for LHH to one of the best. I'd prefer to just get Dozier and kept Shaw where he is.

 

What makes me feel a bit better at least is that this is not a hastily made move; there was speculations about this already in the offseason. And Shaw with the grounders at 2nd and all. So they've thought about this for a while, so clearly they like Moose. As for the deal itself; I like Phillips and that sweet cannon of his, but he was seriously blocked, and the swing-and-miss in his game makes it unlikely to see him hit well enough to be more than a 4th OF. Hoping he gets a chance to play regularly in KC and a chance to prove me wrong. Lopez would be out of options next year, and would have to be either kept on the 25-man or DFAd. So that makes sense as well.

[ebmackenzie]

197 posts have gone by and I am wondering...

Will Shaw get as many innings at 2B as Villar got in the OF?

 

I watched Ryno play 2B on WGN well past when he should have retired and the grass in front of him at Wrigley was at least 5" high...expect that at Miller Park if Shaw plays an inning.

 

IIRC, the 3B market is absolutely awash with quality players coming out next yr in FA, even if Moose is thrown back there will be another decent 3B to fill his place.

 

This move is a precursor to a pitching acquisition that has already been put in motion (DS: "So if Shaw were available then you would be happy to pair him with _____, _____ and one of ____, _____, or ____ for Pitcher X?")

[jjfanec]

Well pretty much no one here liked this deal. I not a huge fan but I do trust so earns overall. This.feela like it has to be a part of something else or Shaw has looked better at 2b in practice than we think. At least we didn't give up a ton

[pacopete4]

It’s so odd to see so many that roasted and had many posts that were filled with such anger against Villar because of his defense (which he ended up turning around this year) just say oh this is fine. Shaw will be fine at 2B.

 

Maybe this will be fine. Doubtful, but maybe they end up moving someone to make this make more sense. (Thames on the move?) either way, Arcia will be the glue that can hopefully save this bad defensive ball club we will have now. (Clancy, don’t respond to me that Hager is taking Arcia’s place. Just stop it.) I know if I was a Brewers pitcher I wouldn’t be too stoked about this move. Part of the reason their numbers are what they are is because of strong defensive play.

 

Oh well, Stearns will have to live this one down if it blows up. Couid be a move that really takes him down a peg or eventually has us questioning if he’s the right guy for this job. Or he could look like a genius again. Should be some real interesting games coming up.