Brewers Trade for Mike Moustakas, Royals receive Phillips and Lopez

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

In Soviet Milwaukee ...

 

Second base plays you!

[jerichoholicninja]

So if Shaw is a decent 2B does he play there next year until Hiura is ready?

 

Sign Adrian Beltre for 1 year, bring up Keston in late June, split Beltra and Shaw at 3B and Shaw and Keston at 2B to keep everyone fresh, and win World Series.

[SeaBass]

You guys have consumed a lot of kool-aid to think this is a positive move. I've loved Stearns but this move stinks out loud.

My intention isn't to pile on with what others have responded but I made this point the night of the trade: what's the worst case scenario?

 

To me it's:

1. Shaw performs so badly at 2B they can't justify playing him there. Then...

2. They don't play him there.

 

You still have Shaw and Moose on the team, can alternate playing one and having the other on the bench. Of course that's not ideal but it improves the bench, pinch hitting, depth.

 

It would take a LOT of ugliness for that to happen IMO. Shaw has already made some nice plays, I feel fairly confident he can handle routine plays.

 

In the end it comes down to how much of a waste do you personally see the cost of Phillips and Lopez for a chance at improving the offense while taking a risk on the defense, at a position where the team wasn't getting great defense anyway? Me personally I don't think losing those 2 guys hurts the team, this was a low cost move that has big upside potential.

 

If your gripe is they didn't get Machado... I can't help you. The price for him was too high and the price for Moose was bargain basement. No contest there. If Arcia continues not being a black hole with the bat like these last 2 games this is way better.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

So if Shaw is a decent 2B does he play there next year until Hiura is ready?

 

Sign Adrian Beltre for 1 year, bring up Keston in late June, split Beltra and Shaw at 3B and Shaw and Keston at 2B to keep everyone fresh, and win World Series.

-

I can't see the Shaw at 2B thing lasting any longer than the end of this season. The only thing that may change that would be a Moose re-sign. I know there were rumors of the team being interested in him this spring as he was languishing on the market. Of course, he he goes off the next couple months and helps carry this team to the playoffs, I imagine he'll have a lot of interest.

[FVBrewerFan]

Also, Shaw and/or Moose could play some 1B. Aguilar's wild ride seems to be over. I don't expect Aguilar to stay this bad, just as I didn't think he could keep up a 1.000+ OPS all season. But the days of having him in the line-up every single game can change.

 

Bottom line, we're headed into August and the bats will play- somewhere.

[jerichoholicninja]

So if Shaw is a decent 2B does he play there next year until Hiura is ready?

 

Sign Adrian Beltre for 1 year, bring up Keston in late June, split Beltra and Shaw at 3B and Shaw and Keston at 2B to keep everyone fresh, and win World Series.

 

I can't see the Shaw at 2B thing lasting any longer than the end of this season. The only thing that may change that would be a Moose resign. I know there were rumors of the team being interested in him this spring as he was languishing on the market. Of course, he he goes off the next couple months and helps carry this team to the playoffs, I imagine he'll have a lot of interest.

 

I don't see any way Moose is back next year. He either doesn't play very well and they don't want to resign him or he plays really well and prices himself out of Milwaukee. Plus I don't think really want to tie up years and money in multiple 3B with Keston knocking on the door. Which is why I think if Shaw proves he's a decent 2B they would/could sign or acquire another rental 3B while Shaw plays 2B until Hiura is ready.

[YelichPosse]

Also, Shaw and/or Moose could play some 1B. Aguilar's wild ride seems to be over. I don't expect Aguilar to stay this bad, just as I didn't think he could keep up a 1.000+ OPS all season. But the days of having him in the line-up every single game can change.

 

Bottom line, we're headed into August and the bats will play- somewhere.

 

I agree with this take. It will work or it won't work at 2b... with Moose or Shaw. And not like you won't have others who need days off or are in slumps like Aguilar is now... If you guys recall last August and September we needed bats to come alive like nothing ever before... and now we have some extra sticks we can move around and hopefully catch some hot streaks to avoid the drastic falloff we had last year!

[Ennder]

I see the Cards are open to trading Jose Martinez, he could be a nice upgrade at SS.

[KeithStone53151]

I wonder if this changes significantly with the Shaw for natural 2b positional swap...

 

[bill hAll Star]

I wonder if this changes significantly with the Shaw for natural 2b positional swap...

 

 

It may go down (I'm guessing Shaw/Mous only start 30-35 2B games), but my counterpoint:

 

This front office clearly knows what it's doing with its defense. Shifts, scouting, etc. Maybe it goes down, but they have to know what they're doing to think that it's not going to go down too much or at all...or at the very least the offense far outweighs it.

[KeithStone53151]

I wonder if this changes significantly with the Shaw for natural 2b positional swap...

 

 

It may go down (I'm guessing Shaw/Mous only start 30-35 2B games), but my counterpoint:

 

This front office clearly knows what it's doing with its defense. Shifts, scouting, etc. Maybe it goes down, but they have to know what they're doing to think that it's not going to go down too much or at all...or at the very least the offense far outweighs it.

 

I generally have confidence in the decision the front office has made here, just worth noting as a counter point. I wasn't trying to argue against the move. I see both sides and don't really have a strong opinion on whether this was a wise move or not. I'm generally just hopeful.

[rickh150]

I see the Cards are open to trading Jose Martinez, he could be a nice upgrade at SS.

 

Can we just say that this humor is either funny or not funny and be done? My view is that it was never clever or funny. To continue to go to this dry well must mean that some people actually think it is STILL clever and funny.

 

Again, if Shaw begins the game at 2nd, it does not mean he is going to end the game there. Some are locked into this belief. Our SP comes out in the 5th or 6th usually, and rotations can start there. Often a double shift or two is made during this time frame, as well. That's like 17 outs or so. Half of those outs happen when there isn't anyone on 1st base. A few more happen when the shift is on a lefty and Shaw isn't turning two. We're talking about a handful of outs that are up for grabs for him possibly turning two, and these are coming early in games. He can play closer to the bag then, which makes the turn three times easier. There are ways to make this work. Is it wise to do the entire game, especially in close games? Probably not. I can't see this happening, though.

 

And as others have pointed out, more Ks in the game (most will be this season) lead to less opportunities in the field. The risk of putting below avg fielding players in positions, other than catcher, is less than ever before. Also, I'm fairly certain Moose or Shaw is not going to start every game at 2B, especially against lefties.

[Boomer5]

I see the Cards are open to trading Jose Martinez, he could be a nice upgrade at SS.

 

Lol. Well played.

 

This won’t get old for me.

[rickh150]

I see the Cards are open to trading Jose Martinez, he could be a nice upgrade at SS.

 

Exaggerated Hypothetical-

If we could get Harper for peanuts, but he had to play half the game at SS, would you do it? My guess is that we all would, that his Aug/Sept batting stats would more than offset his d, and that we switch him to the OF come late in the game.

 

Same with Shaw to a certain extent...

[patrickgpe]

I slept on this for a couple days and I do like this move. Is it a risk, Yes. Did the brewers give up good players to get him, Yes. But both did not have a long term future in Milwaukee. Sometimes you have to take a risk, if you want to be playing in October. If things work out defensively, they are going to have one of the better lineups 1-8 in the NL down the stretch.

[rickh150]

I slept on this for a couple days and I do like this move. Is it a risk, Yes. Did the brewers give up good players to get him, Yes. But both did not have a long term future in Milwaukee. Sometimes you have to take a risk, if you want to be playing in October. If things work out defensively, they are going to have one of the better lineups 1-8 in the NL down the stretch.

 

Relatively no risk. If it blows up, we have a deeper 1B/3B situation and bench.

[Boomer5]

There will be another move. No way they are playing Shaw at 2B.

Care to wager?

 

Yes

[zzzmanwitz]

There will be another move. No way they are playing Shaw at 2B.

Care to wager?

 

Yes

 

Shaw will still be playing plenty of 2B.

[jonescm128]

I am sure this has been discussed somewhere in here but I don't want to look through 21 pages of comments, but can we make a qualifying offer to Moustakas that would net us a draft pick next year? Or since he has a mutual option are you not able to make a QO. Not sure how this stuff works...

[xisxisxis]

No QO. Has to do with when he was acquired. IIRC the player has to be with the team opening day to qualify for QO...

[jerichoholicninja]

No QO. Has to do with when he was acquired. IIRC the player has to be with the team opening day to qualify for QO...

 

Technically it would be because he was offered one last year and a player can only be offered it once during their career. But the traded during the last year of his contract part would apply if he didn't get it last year.

[JohnBriggs12]

The market for bats last year was fairly weak. If I had to choose between Thames and Moustakas, I'd take Mousetakas.

[jonescm128]

The market for bats last year was fairly weak. If I had to choose between Thames and Moustakas, I'd take Mousetakas.

 

Definitely...similar power but Moustakas also provides defense and he is a better all around hitter.

[homer]

Moustakas's stats since the trade:

 

.286/.321/.490

[502 to Right]

Moustakas's stats since the trade:

 

.286/.321/.490

 

Shaw's stats since the trade:

 

.279/.333/.558

 

So the Brewers could have skipped the Moose trade, kept Shaw at 3B--and instead trade for a 2B who's actually better than Jonathan Villar.