Brewers Trade for Mike Moustakas, Royals receive Phillips and Lopez

[Fear The Chorizo]

Are we really speculating about potential free agent contract values on a guy the brewers literally traded for about 36 hours ago with two full months of season left?

[adambr2]

Are we really speculating about potential free agent contract values on a guy the brewers literally traded for about 36 hours ago with two full months of season left?

 

What's the problem with that? It's a message board. We speculate on things a lot.

[coolhandluke121]

 

It's absolutely crazy and delusional to think that Moustakas could not beat 1/$15 million on the open market. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

Would you say there is a 0% chance he takes that option, like you said there's a 0% chance Villar is better as an RHB even though his career OPS is 60 points better from that side of the plate?

 

Pretty amazing how, according to you, the thing that is supported by factual evidence and history is the thing that can't possibly be legit, whereas the alternative is 100% obvious in both cases.

[coolhandluke121]

Are we really speculating about potential free agent contract values on a guy the brewers literally traded for about 36 hours ago with two full months of season left?

 

I don't follow. Are you suggesting that whether the Brewers might be able to retain his services at a reasonable cost for one more season is not an important aspect of the trade?

[Ennder]

It's absolutely crazy and delusional to think that Moustakas could not beat 1/$15 million on the open market. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

Why though? He couldn't beat it last year when there wasn't competition on the market and he isn't having as good a season this year. I could easily see him not get the deal he wants and I could easily see him being spooked by what happened last year and just taking the 1 more year in a hitters park to prove himself. Assuming we wanted the option.

[adambr2]

It also depends on what you mean by "beat". Does 3/33 beat 1/15? Guess it depends on your perspective.

 

But absolutely no way do I think he does better than $15M annually on the open market. Tough to gauge the years he'll get.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Are we really speculating about potential free agent contract values on a guy the brewers literally traded for about 36 hours ago with two full months of season left?

 

I don't follow. Are you suggesting that whether the Brewers might be able to retain his services at a reasonable cost for one more season is not an important aspect of the trade?

 

It's a mutual option, not a team one right? So, at the end of the day it's up to moose and boras what he wants to do - not Stearns and the brewers. Based on last offseason's weirdness, I really don't see the point in trying to gauge the potential 3b market now in july. In all likelihood stearns made this trade without worrying much about what moustakas does this offseason since he essentially has no control over it.

 

This isn't like Soria, who at his age as a reliever might be much more inclined to exercise his 2019 option while the brewers might not want to if they truly do have future payroll constraints. At his age, moose would be foolish not to try free agency again this offseason.

[Pugger]

At some point in this thread can we just decide to watch shaw play 2b before saying he can't do it? Maybe he can't but the team has had him practice there and maybe they think he is fine there. This isn't the same regime that trotted out yuni and kotsay out there simply disregarding defense in big games

 

this

[SRB]

 

It's absolutely crazy and delusional to think that Moustakas could not beat 1/$15 million on the open market. Sorry if I was unclear.

 

Would you say there is a 0% chance he takes that option, like you said there's a 0% chance Villar is better as an RHB even though his career OPS is 60 points better from that side of the plate?

 

Pretty amazing how, according to you, the thing that is supported by factual evidence and history is the thing that can't possibly be legit, whereas the alternative is 100% obvious in both cases.

 

Glad you're a fan of my posting history, though if you go and re-read that thread you'll see that I said there is a 0% chance that Jonathan Villar is better against LHP than Daniel Murphy.

 

There's a non-zero chance that Moustakas exercises the option, and if he does it will be because of a confluence of events and his belief that he can still get a big multi-year deal after 2019 given his age. There is 0% chance that Moustakas and Boras exercise the option because they don't think Moustakas could make more than $15 million as a free agent.

 

And Moustakas received at least one $45+ million offer last offseason, so I'm not sure which side factual evidence and history supports.

 

It's a figure of speech, by the way. Obviously none of these things have a literal "0.0 %" chance of happening.

[brewerfan82]

Glad you're a fan of my posting history, though if you go and re-read that thread you'll see that I said there is a 0% chance that Jonathan Villar is better against LHP than Daniel Murphy.

Still supports his argument that you're making over the top statements that aren't backed up by actual facts.

 

Career vs. LHP

Villar: .325/.434/.759

Murphy: .317/.404/.722

 

2018 vs. LHP

Villar: .352/.540/.892

Murphy: .296/.292/.588

[coolhandluke121]

 

Glad you're a fan of my posting history, though if you go and re-read that thread you'll see that I said there is a 0% chance that Jonathan Villar is better against LHP than Daniel Murphy.

 

There's a non-zero chance that Moustakas exercises the option, and if he does it will be because of a confluence of events and his belief that he can still get a big multi-year deal after 2019 given his age.

 

It's a figure of speech, by the way. Obviously none of these things have a literal "0.0 %" chance of happening.

 

LOL at the very next poster pointing out that Villar is better against LHP's than Murphy.

 

I clearly said that Moustakas might be better off picking up his option because the market will be more favorable in 2020 so...

 

Not to mention the fact that the debate is clearly about whether people are correct in saying there's no doubt that he's just a rental, which is not a given if there's a chance he picks up his option.

 

Did Moustakas beat 1/$15m on the open market this year? He's older and he's playing worse than he did last year. Also, he and a few others like Holland foolishly turned down better offers and were left holding the bag. Who's to say those offers will come back? Did they come back last winter? Now that teams understand the market correction that has happened to players like him, it much less likely anyone will make him the type of offer the Angels did again. Lots of teams overpaid (or tried to overpay) early in free agency before they realized what was going on. The days of mediocre players at the tail end of their prime getting 3/$45 may be over.

 

So 0% is a figure of speech... is "crazy and delusional" a figure of speech too? You should probably find some new figures of speech.

[KeithStone53151]

Glad you're a fan of my posting history, though if you go and re-read that thread you'll see that I said there is a 0% chance that Jonathan Villar is better against LHP than Daniel Murphy.

Still supports his argument that you're making over the top statements that aren't backed up by actual facts.

 

Career vs. LHP

Villar: .325/.434/.759

Murphy: .317/.404/.722

 

2018 vs. LHP

Villar: .352/.540/.892

Murphy: .296/.292/.588

 

Murphy has started slow, but you can't ignore the numbers. Right now, Villar is hitting LHP very well.

[TooLiveBrew]

Ok let's steer this back onto a civil form of discussion please. Everyone has had their say & back-&-forth jabs.

 

Thanks

[Thurston Fluff]

Just to add some insight into why Stearns isn't all that concerned about Shaw playing 2nd.

 

“The truth is, with the way we move our infielders around, conventional positions don’t apply to us all that much. We ask a lot of all of our infielders, to play all over the dirt. So, Travis has played all over the dirt for the majority of this season and most of last season as well.”

 

I think this goes back to the versatility they look for in players. Maybe he hasn't played second per say but he has shown the ability to play outside of the traditional third base position.

[PeaveyFury]

I think this goes back to the versatility they look for in players. Maybe he hasn't played second per say but he has shown the ability to play outside of the traditional third base position.

 

I think it also goes to show just how progressive this staff/f.o. is regarding 'breaking the traditional mold' in a lot of ways. I said in another thread that the Padres seem to think they're smarter than everyone else in the league but aren't.... I won't go so far as to claim that the Brewers are, but signs suggest they're trying things that indicate that they might be.

[KeithStone53151]

I think this goes back to the versatility they look for in players. Maybe he hasn't played second per say but he has shown the ability to play outside of the traditional third base position.

 

I think it also goes to show just how progressive this staff/f.o. is regarding 'breaking the traditional mold' in a lot of ways. I said in another thread that the Padres seem to think they're smarter than everyone else in the league but aren't.... I won't go so far as to claim that the Brewers are, but signs suggest they're trying things that indicate that they might be.

 

Its definitely possible we are doing the right thing by breaking that mold. Look no further than the Astros, when it comes to pitching...they are smarter than the rest of the league.

[danzig6767]

Glad you're a fan of my posting history, though if you go and re-read that thread you'll see that I said there is a 0% chance that Jonathan Villar is better against LHP than Daniel Murphy.

Still supports his argument that you're making over the top statements that aren't backed up by actual facts.

 

Career vs. LHP

Villar: .325/.434/.759

Murphy: .317/.404/.722

 

2018 vs. LHP

Villar: .352/.540/.892

Murphy: .296/.292/.588

These career numbers are misleading

 

In 2016 Murphy

 

vs. LHP .376/.548/.924

 

In 2017 Murphy

 

vs. LHP .343/.480/.823

 

I don't know if he changed something in his stance or approach when he got to Washington, but he had back to back huge years, .985 OPS in 2016 and .928 OPS in 2017.

 

He was injured to start this season and started out horrible in June, but so far in July he has posted a .936 OPS. He's a really good hitter and better than Villar. That said, with Shaw having to play secondbase after trading for Moustakas, getting Murphy would leave one of those three on the bench each game.

[502 to Right]

You guys have consumed a lot of kool-aid to think this is a positive move. I've loved Stearns but this move stinks out loud.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

You guys have consumed a lot of kool-aid to think this is a positive move. I've loved Stearns but this move stinks out loud.

 

You've made your point. Repeatedly. And you really aren't really adding anything by repeating the same thing (I hate this move) over and over.

[Eye Black]

You guys have consumed a lot of kool-aid to think this is a positive move. I've loved Stearns but this move stinks out loud.

I didn’t love the move at first either, but at this point we’ve kind of spoken our piece on it. I think it’s worth seeing how things play out before deeming the move a failure (or a success).

[502 to Right]

You guys have consumed a lot of kool-aid to think this is a positive move. I've loved Stearns but this move stinks out loud.

 

You've made your point. Repeatedly. And you really aren't really adding anything by repeating the same thing (I hate this move) over and over.

 

Thanks for remember the comments I made 10 pages ago.

 

 

P.S. - This move stinks. Blah, blah, blah. WAR. UZR. wOBA. The Moose is Loose. Don't play people in MLB at positions they've never played before.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

You guys have consumed a lot of kool-aid to think this is a positive move. I've loved Stearns but this move stinks out loud.

I didn’t love the move at first either, but at this point we’ve kind of spoken our piece on it. I think it’s worth seeing how things play out before deeming the move a failure (or a success).

 

Exactly. They guys that made that decision know a lot more than we do. Let it play out before driving it into the ground. I'll think its a positive move until proven otherwise.

[PeaveyFury]

P.S. - This move stinks. Blah, blah, blah. WAR. UZR. wOBA. The Moose is Loose. Don't play people in MLB at positions they've never played before.

 

Just to recap: No matter what statistics or analysis or anything shows, you're going to hate this move no matter what comes from it? Even if Shaw plays solid defense there the rest of the year because the team believed he can?

 

Not sure that's fair at all. I don't think it required anyone to 'drink the coolade' to think that the staff might know what they're doing, or believes they're going to make it work. And yep, that thought process could be wrong, but I'm at least willing to see how things play out before calling it a disaster.

[adambr2]

I didn't like it at first, but I'm warming up to it, and I really appreciate the fact that the organization is willing to venture outside the box in their thinking on any way to improve this team.

 

I think a lot of what makes the organization feel comfortable with a move like this is Arcia. Not that they expect Moose and Shaw to be poor but Arcia can cover so much range that it really minimizes the space around him that others need to cover. I think this move is a strong signal that for better or worse, Arcia is our everyday SS. Hopefully he can continue swinging a good bat.

 

My dream scenario that pretty much completes our lineup without sacrificing a bit of defense, and solves our catching woes through 2020, is still to somehow acquire Realmuto before the deadline, but I acknowledge it seems highly unlikely. You never really know with DS though, he keeps his moves close to the vest and there's usually little or no rumor about them beforehand.

[bork]

As expected, Moustakas is taking reps at 2B and they'll see who is a better fit there.

 

"We’ve seen him for one day," manager Craig Counsell said of Shaw. "What I’m saying is that I think we’re going to explore second base with him still. We’ll see. We’re going into this thing with Travis and Moose as, ‘One of these guys is going to play second base.’

 

"We started out with Travis there because we hadn’t seen Moose work there and we’ve seen Travis do it a little more. I was really encouraged by watching Moose move around at second base and do his work there.

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2018/07/29/brewers-could-use-mike-moustakas-second-base-well/846606002/