Brewers Trade for Mike Moustakas, Royals receive Phillips and Lopez

[MrTPlush]

I didn't realize how low of a strikeout guy Moustakas is. I just kind of assumed that a low OBP guy with a lot of power is going to be a high K player.

 

Yup, he could be really useful getting those guys in on 3rd base the lower half of our line-up strikes out to leave stranded all the time.

 

On another note I finally saw Shaw’s interview after the game yesterday (in text version) and he seems less than confident with 2nd base...so we shall see.

[Point Beer Is Best]

I saw on Twitter (but unverified) that Moustakas is going to wear #18 since Braun already has #8 locked up. If true, it is little bit funny that they are giving him Sogard’s number even though Sogard is back in the organization.

 

The tweet I saw came from the same guy that broke the trade news. This will be fun for awhile until they figure out where the leak is coming from and stop it. Hopefully not until after the deadline.

[bigredrobbo]

The rampant pessimism at this trade is incredible - even for this board. We lose two guys with no legitimate future in Milwaukee for a guy who makes the Crew better, by the simple fact of not having to play a bunch of guys (Miller, Perez, Villar) who seem to be generally hated by most here. I'm gonna wait and see what happens, as opposed to putting forth opinions as fact, that seems to be happening - Shaw will be a butcher at 2B, Moose isn't very good, etc.

[SRB]

The notion that Moustakas couldn't best a 1/$15 million deal this offseason is crazy. Let's be realistic, he's going to be a free agent and he's likely going to get $80 million or more, perhaps nine figures, in the offseason.

 

The only reason he ended up back in Kansas City is because Boras finally miscalculated by holding out for a mega-mega-deal too long.

[rcc]

I say kudos for Travis taking reps at second and saying he is up to the challenge. He is a team guy and will work hard at it. He came up as a first baseman and became a third baseman when he was needed there. Stearns got him in Milwaukee and now they need a second baseman. I hope he does well, Moose does well and they make the playoffs.

[SRB]

The rampant pessimism at this trade is incredible - even for this board. We lose two guys with no legitimate future in Milwaukee for a guy who makes the Crew better, by the simple fact of not having to play a bunch of guys (Miller, Perez, Villar) who seem to be generally hated by most here. I'm gonna wait and see what happens, as opposed to putting forth opinions as fact, that seems to be happening - Shaw will be a butcher at 2B, Moose isn't very good, etc.

 

There's a natural aversion to losing guys/changing things for fans who follow teams too closely. Case in point, I don't recall ever seeing a single person on here praise Kodi Medeiros as a prospect, and suddenly lots of people were aghast at losing him for Soria.

[pacopete4]

The rampant pessimism at this trade is incredible - even for this board. We lose two guys with no legitimate future in Milwaukee for a guy who makes the Crew better, by the simple fact of not having to play a bunch of guys (Miller, Perez, Villar) who seem to be generally hated by most here. I'm gonna wait and see what happens, as opposed to putting forth opinions as fact, that seems to be happening - Shaw will be a butcher at 2B, Moose isn't very good, etc.

 

You really can’t understand the pessimism towards moving Shaw to 2B and just hoping for the best? He’s never, ever, played a game there. It’s great that you’re going to be positive about it. I too am hopping for the best from this. But you can’t understand the pessimism? Really?

[Point Beer Is Best]

But there was NO market for Moustakas last year, which is why he's making $6.5 mil this year. I don't think it's completely crazy to think he'd do the 15 mil option. If not, he may still be interested in returning for a reasonable multi-year.

 

The biggest reason there wasn’t a market was that he had draft pick compensation tied to him, an obstacle he won’t have to overcome this offseason.

[SRB]

But there was NO market for Moustakas last year, which is why he's making $6.5 mil this year. I don't think it's completely crazy to think he'd do the 15 mil option. If not, he may still be interested in returning for a reasonable multi-year.

 

The biggest reason there wasn’t a market was that he had draft pick compensation tied to him, an obstacle he won’t have to overcome this offseason.

 

Also nobody needed a high-end 3B last offseason. The Yankees got Frazier cheap very early, and then the only team left was the Angels who offered Moustakas $45+ million that he turned down, and they ended up converting Cozart.

[jerichoholicninja]

I saw on Twitter (but unverified) that Moustakas is going to wear #18 since Braun already has #8 locked up. If true, it is little bit funny that they are giving him Sogard’s number even though Sogard is back in the organization.

 

The tweet I saw came from the same guy that broke the trade news. This will be fun for awhile until they figure out where the leak is coming from and stop it. Hopefully not until after the deadline.

 

Could very well just be a good guess. He obviously wasn't going to wear 8 and 18 was available. I was thinking he would take 18. And Sogard isn't on the 40 man so it doesn't really matter if it was his number of not.

[harrydalton]

Shaw's switch to unfamiliar 2B might also cause a downshift in his offensive production.

[bill hAll Star]

Alright, here’s my dissertation on this. Maybe I’m giving Stearns too much credit, but I think he is obviously on the cutting edge. I try to reverse engineer any outside the box move he makes because I think he must have some good ideas. Maybe he thinks Shaw is a good 2B and I’m going to far...

 

These are old ideas but they are more extreme now...

 

2B defense is the least important that it has ever been: Shifts, historically high K% from hitters, every team is trying to launch the ball so a lot of fly balls. Stearns may believe that 2B defense is a very small issue over a large sample of games. “I’ll live with the 2 times a grounder is hit to Shaw/game.” They’ll also defensive sub in games they lead late.

 

Playing with a DH: the AL has historically always crushed the NL in interleague play and the common theory is that the AL roster already has a DH whereas the NL team comes in with a utility guy at DH. Enter: our bench and bullpen ball against NL teams. I think one of Shaw/Mous rides the pine against lefties. We generally do a lot of bullpenning and basically get a high caliber DH out of it with Thames, Miller, Shaw coming off the bench in those games. Ditto for the RH games.

 

Alright, now feel free to steal my lunch money and throw me in a locker.

[Eye Black]

On another note I finally saw Shaw’s interview after the game yesterday (in text version) and he seems less than confident with 2nd base...so we shall see.

I mentioned this after I saw his interview last night, but it actually made me more nervous watching him talk about it. He was saying the right things, but didn’t appear overly confident as he was saying it. I was probably (and hopefully) reading way too much into it, but I didn’t get the sense that he is ecstatic at the thought of running out to the middle of the infield every night.

[OnaBadger58]

I didn't realize how low of a strikeout guy Moustakas is. I just kind of assumed that a low OBP guy with a lot of power is going to be a high K player.

He will warm us up perfectly to the type of player Erceg is.

[adambr2]

The rampant pessimism at this trade is incredible - even for this board. We lose two guys with no legitimate future in Milwaukee for a guy who makes the Crew better, by the simple fact of not having to play a bunch of guys (Miller, Perez, Villar) who seem to be generally hated by most here. I'm gonna wait and see what happens, as opposed to putting forth opinions as fact, that seems to be happening - Shaw will be a butcher at 2B, Moose isn't very good, etc.

 

There's a natural aversion to losing guys/changing things for fans who follow teams too closely. Case in point, I don't recall ever seeing a single person on here praise Kodi Medeiros as a prospect, and suddenly lots of people were aghast at losing him for Soria.

 

I don't know how much time you spend in the minors forums, but Kodi definitely had his big fans here.

[jerichoholicninja]

Brewers 2B have averaged 4.04 chances per game so far this year compared to 2.43 for 3B, and 4.27 for SS. That doesn't take into account balls a fielder could (or should) have gotten to but didn't and only accounts for when the position did something "scoreable" on the play. Also the shifts make those numbers even more less than perfect. So, I'm not really sure what to take from them. But here they are.

 

Also, as has been mentioned before, I don't think we should totally discount Shaw being traded before the deadline. Not saying he will be or they are trying to but it does give them the option to.

[istanbultaye]

Brewers 2B have averaged 4.04 chances per game so far this year compared to 2.43 for 3B, and 4.27 for SS. That doesn't take into account balls a fielder could (or should) have gotten to but didn't and only accounts for when the position did something "scoreable" on the play. Also the shifts make those numbers even more less than perfect. So, I'm not really sure what to take from them. But here they are.

 

Also, as has been mentioned before, I don't think we should totally discount Shaw being traded before the deadline. Not saying he will be or they are trying to but it does give them the option to.

 

It would of course depend on what we get back for Shaw in such a trade, but it would need to be pretty good for me to not be disappointed with swapping Shaw for a (1.5 years) older, less controlled, worse OBP Moustakas at 3b.

[OnTheBlack]

Well, thanks for providing that list. Let's review, then:

 

Miley, Wade Lol for that matter have you see our entire rotation and what DJ has done with them? DJ is the coach of the year and it isn't particularly close.

 

Despite only 5 starts (4 really, since he left the Cleveland game after one out), Miley has been solidly above replacement level so far. It may not be pretty, but he has yet to give up more than 2 runs when he's pitched.

 

And the rest of the rotation? Sure, there is room for improvement, but the team has 60 wins, and has rarely missed a beat despite substantial injuries and no contribution from Nelson. Yeah, DJ gets a lot of the credit, but you could also suggest that the front office may have had a better feel for the depth that was there than us fans actually did.

 

This is why speaking in absolutes is dangerous. Despite your repeated assertations that the Brewers would sign another starter, they didn't. But the one they did sign (Chacin) has been an anchor in the rotation, and the other options available to them have been terrible for the teams they did sign with. Seems like the GM made the right decisions there.

 

I'm going to give you two DHs but you can put them at 1B and LF if you'd like since you know we play in the NL and all.

 

Go and actually look at Jesus' defensive performance this year- almost exactly average as a 1B. Not a DH at all. And Thames? Sure, he's more valuable as a DH. But he's missed significant time this year, and has still contributed enough with the bat to be valuable. How does that put 'heavy lifting' on Counsell, exactly? Isn't the manager supposed to determine how to get his best players on the field?

 

Oh that LF that can only play LF? I'm going to not trade him for Matt Kemp instead I'm going to let you figure out how to use your third DH.

 

Was the Matt Kemp stuff an actual, legitimate rumor, or just people speculating on a message board? Until his resurgance last year, Kemp looked even worse on paper than Braun, and the only reason a trade seemed to make sense was because he was overpaid for less years. If you saw his 2018 performance coming, please tell me tonight's Powerball numbers.

 

We don't have a C, don't worry I'll trade for a 38 year old who couldn't charitably be called a journeyman. Btw I find it interesting that he has a better WAR as a pitcher than as a catcher.

 

You mean the trade to replace a terrible backup catcher who wasn't supposed to be the backup until another guy's career ended unexpectedly? And despite how Kratz has performed, he's actually been better than Bandy was in his time here and only slightly below replacement level... seems like they actually did upgrade the #2 catcher position via that no-cost move....

 

So I got rid of the gritty All Star 2B everyone liked so we could keep the 2B you clearly don't like because you do everything you can to not play him, but don't worry my waiver wire magic will fix that. You like Brad Miller? How about Salad man? No? Ok I'll bring in a 3B to solve our 2B problem that I created in the first place.

 

You mean that move that happened two seasons ago? Again, if you saw Scooter's explosion coming, I'll take those Lottery numbers. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt that Villar could have been predicted to step back some. But if we're not looking back in hindsight, what would things have looked like on this board if they had instead dumped the guy who had just OPS'd .826 with 62 steals as a 25 year old and kept the 27 year old who had regressed the previous two seasons and played below-average defense. And yeah, Miller didn't work out. But don't the acquisitions of Saladino and Miller show the willingness of the front office to try and fix the problems or get rid of some of the 'heavy lifting' you're claiming the coaches have to do? This also requires the assumption that those acquisitions (especially Miller) were only related to 2B and had nothing to do with trying to fix the unexpected Arcia problem, which is massively incorrect.

 

I'm just having fun here but let's be honest, moving Shaw to 2B is move that even the biggest Stearns fan will really have trouble justifying.

 

Sure, I suppose it's puzzling on paper. But most of us would at least like to see two things- 1) how does Shaw actually look if he plays there, and/or 2) what does the team actually look like at the end of the day on Tuesday? Moaning about the move today doesn't even give it a chance to see whether it works out or not, or what comes next.

 

 

Great post. I would also add, I think our manager is pretty involved in these decisions given he was working in the front office and looked to be in the FO for the next several years before they pried him out of there to manage a rebuilding team. I'm sure Stearns doesn't just send out a memo to the Manager saying, "you're gonna play Shaw at 2nd." I would guess there is some discussion that goes into it.

 

I would further guess that Craig was MORE than happy to keep Aguilar this year on the 25 man and didn't look at him as a DH type player whatsoever.

 

With regard to Wade Miley, so they signed a cheap veteran pitcher to add rotation depth. Again, not sure how that makes CC or DJ jobs harder in the least bit.

 

And I'm not even going to address the "gritty" second basemen who went to a hitters park and turned his career around. At the time, letting Gennett go with Arcia coming up and Villar coming off his huge season was not only reasonable, it didn't make much sense to NOT dump him. And I was always a fan of Gennett. The guy went back home, changed his swing and turned into a great player. Is it at ALL possible to just give HIM credit for turning it around rather than taking credit away from the Brewers for him not doing it in Milwaukee?

 

Also, the list of things that Stearns has done to make CC's job easier is a long one, starting with an absolute steal of a trade in pulling in Yellich, signing Cain, stealing Shaw from the Sox among other moves.

 

 

THIS move to me today doesn't make sense. But there hasn't been another that I've sat there and really scratched my head on, and if we're talking about predicting Matt Kemp was gonna have the type of year he was gonna have, then we're not really having a reasonable argument. Unlikely things happen in baseball where there is so much room for variables. Braun meanwhile has been hitting the ball harder than all but a few players in the NL and is having a career worst season. But not only do we NOT know that we could have traded Braun for Kemp straight up, I would have bet on Braun having a better year than Kemp with the bat this year.

[JosephC]

There is nothing more irrelevant than the Moustakas/Boras end of the mutual option. The Brewers will not be picking up that option. Moustakas is a rental.

[MrTPlush]

There is nothing more irrelevant than the Moustakas/Boras end of the mutual option. The Brewers will not be picking up that option. Moustakas is a rental.

 

I wouldn’t be so sure about that. The Brewers were going after Moustakas last winter. The only reason I am confident Moustakas is a rental is because we would have to decide on his option before the offseason ever ramps up. Making it difficult to commit to Moustakas at 3rd and trading Shaw for that lovely pitcher we wanted in the offseason.

 

Safe to say they will decline the option, but he could be resigned if we do indeed package Shaw for a TOR starter.

 

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but I really hate when people give opinions as facts and don’t provide any reasoning for it.

[dlk9s]

Let's complain more about how good or bad our backup catcher is.

[danzig6767]

The rampant pessimism at this trade is incredible - even for this board. We lose two guys with no legitimate future in Milwaukee for a guy who makes the Crew better, by the simple fact of not having to play a bunch of guys (Miller, Perez, Villar) who seem to be generally hated by most here. I'm gonna wait and see what happens, as opposed to putting forth opinions as fact, that seems to be happening - Shaw will be a butcher at 2B, Moose isn't very good, etc.

There's a natural aversion to losing guys/changing things for fans who follow teams too closely. Case in point, I don't recall ever seeing a single person on here praise Kodi Medeiros as a prospect, and suddenly lots of people were aghast at losing him for Soria.

Come on

 

The vast majority of the criticism isn't over trading away Phillips/Lopez. Both were expendable.

 

What most don't like about the move is trading for a thirdbaseman instead of a middle infielder, forcing Shaw to play secondbase.

 

Had we traded those two guys for say Asdrúbal Cabrera or Dozier instead of Moustakas, the criticism wouldn't be the same.

[OnTheBlack]

The notion that Moustakas couldn't best a 1/$15 million deal this offseason is crazy. Let's be realistic, he's going to be a free agent and he's likely going to get $80 million or more, perhaps nine figures, in the offseason.

 

The only reason he ended up back in Kansas City is because Boras finally miscalculated by holding out for a mega-mega-deal too long.

 

 

Finally? Hasn't he done this several times in the past few years? Boras gets the biggest deals done...but he's also hurt some clients when he's trying to reset the market and the teams just aren't biting. And I don't see a guy who coming off a very good year who gets 6.5 million "easily" getting 80 million when you have Machado, Donaldson and Beltre available at the same position he plays.

[coolhandluke121]

Hey, why didn't Braun get his chance to play 2b? May as well at this point. I hope his feelings aren't hurt. Can't afford to alienate your Best Hitter When Healthy.

[OnTheBlack]

The rampant pessimism at this trade is incredible - even for this board. We lose two guys with no legitimate future in Milwaukee for a guy who makes the Crew better, by the simple fact of not having to play a bunch of guys (Miller, Perez, Villar) who seem to be generally hated by most here. I'm gonna wait and see what happens, as opposed to putting forth opinions as fact, that seems to be happening - Shaw will be a butcher at 2B, Moose isn't very good, etc.

There's a natural aversion to losing guys/changing things for fans who follow teams too closely. Case in point, I don't recall ever seeing a single person on here praise Kodi Medeiros as a prospect, and suddenly lots of people were aghast at losing him for Soria.

Come on

 

The vast majority of the criticism isn't over trading away Phillips/Lopez. Both were expendable.

 

What most don't like about the move is trading for a thirdbaseman instead of a middle infielder, forcing Shaw to play secondbase.

 

Had we traded those two guys for say Asdrúbal Cabrera or Dozier instead of Moustakas, the criticism wouldn't be the same.

 

 

No kidding. Plus, talk about hyperbole. Everyone was "aghast"? at losing Medeiros, but you never saw a single person praise him? I think you need to read closer. Of lower the importance of what YOU'VE seen. He was a power lefty arm, a former first round pick and he was performing well in AA.

 

That said, almost everyone I've seen has been fine with who we've given away. Our 40 man crunch has just been significantly lessened with the last few trades. It's as if Stearns is taking guys who are on the bubble and using them(or guys who are blocked as Phillips is) to upgrade this team.

 

The reason anyone MIGHT have been "aghast" like a 1950's actress in a terror movie, is that we're putting Shaw at 2nd base. And all I've seen there is skepticism about how he'll do there given he's NEVER PLAYED IT.

 

And finally, this is in response to another poster who was upset that people are "putting forth opinions" before we actually see what Shaw does and that we should just sit back and have a beer and enjoy the game....well, then lets shut down the board. If this board isn't hear to discuss opinions and speculate and exchange ideas on, then what's really the point?