Brewers Trade for Mike Moustakas, Royals receive Phillips and Lopez

[xisxisxis]

The 2018-19 3B market looks better than the 2B market to me.

 

Looking at https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/3rd-base/

there are only 4 options at 3B and 3 aren't signing with Milwaukee (Machado, Donaldson, Beltre)... That leaves convincing Mouse to exercise his option (not likely as Boras always chooses Free Agency) or signing Escobar, which is an option, but that's only 1 real option while there are at least 5 at 2B...

 

I agree that having another year of Mouse could segway to Hiura in 2020 and Shaw back to 3B, but I can't imagine where Boras would help the Brewers...

[MrTPlush]

The move seems depsperate and crazy...but the Brewers must love something about Moustakas. They went after him in FA and here he is now.

 

I’m going to assume the prices on actual 2B were just too high for Stearns liking...like way higher than he would give up. I’d rather of had Dozier, but I’m guessing he is commanding a real nice package. Moustakas only took a couple solid prospects...but something we won’t look back on and regret losing (hopefully).

 

I’m also not too concerned about Shaw at 2B because obviously the Brewers have to be really confident in what they are seeing in practice to make a move like this.

 

I wish we would acquire some talent that will help after this year, but that is an expensive thing to do...especially midseason. There will be ample opportunity this winter to fill holes and of course I bet Hiura is with us pretty quickly next year to be our 2B unless he goes to acquire a TOR guy. Not to mention Burnes and Peralta AND Nelson all should be strong rotation candidates for next year. How much do we want to invest to go get a controllable starter when we already have a lot of great guys for next year? So yah, in a way getting rentals ain’t a bad idea. The winter is filled with opportunities to worry about 2019.

[PeaveyFury]

Broxton?

 

Anyone else briefly wonder what happened this morning that I was missing

[Boomer5]

Boras isn't bypassing FA if Moose does enough to make the Brewers want to exercise their half of the option so it's clearly a rental.

 

Playing guys out of position is nothing new but moving a barely mobile corner man to 2B is especially insane because range and agility matter and Shaw has none of those. Shifts of course can help but it's another example of Stearns giving CC and DJ imperfect solutions and letting them do the heavy lifting.

[PeaveyFury]

Boras isn't bypassing FA if Moose does enough to make the Brewers want to exercise their half of the option so it's clearly a rental.

 

Boras already cost his client millions last year by rejecting the QO and misreading the market for his client. I'm not sure it's as completely cut-and-dried as you make it out to be.

 

it's another example of Stearns giving CC and DJ imperfect solutions and letting them do the heavy lifting.

 

'Another example' implies other instances. I'd certainly like to see the list...

[SRB]

Considering how well Corey Ray has played in AA this year, the Brewers likely saw Phillips as a 7th Outfielder at best over the next 3-4 years. Considering the upcoming 40 Man Roster crunch, they needed to move Phillips.

 

Moustakas makes the Brewers better. I'm happy about that. Similar to Cain, he has a proven track record in deep postseason runs, too, which is something I like a lot....

 

Didn't realize that Corey Ray was finally beasting! K's could come down but I'll take a 30/30 season (40/40 upside?)

[xisxisxis]

Shifts of course can help but it's another example of Stearns giving CC and DJ imperfect solutions and letting them do the heavy lifting.

So? That's why Stearns is the boss and they are the employees. Stearns does plenty to ease their jobs, no reason everything has to be to ease their jobs... They signed on to the heavy lifting...

[nate82]

But there was NO market for Moustakas last year, which is why he's making $6.5 mil this year. I don't think it's completely crazy to think he'd do the 15 mil option. If not, he may still be interested in returning for a reasonable multi-year.

 

I don't see how Moustakas turns down that $15m option next year. What team is going to give him $15m next year to play 3B? He may get a longer term contract some where else but I am struggling to find a spot for him. I don't see Atlanta shelling out a lot of money for Moustakas maybe for Machado but not for Moustakas. Then you have Donaldson who will probably get a 1-year contract and I believe Beltre could also sign a 1-year contract with someone.

 

I think Moustakas is going to be in the same boat as he was in this past off season if he turns down that $15m option.

[Boomer5]

Boras isn't bypassing FA if Moose does enough to make the Brewers want to exercise their half of the option so it's clearly a rental.

 

Boras already cost his client millions last year by rejecting the QO and misreading the market for his client. I'm not sure it's as completely cut-and-dried as you make it out to be.

 

it's another example of Stearns giving CC and DJ imperfect solutions and letting them do the heavy lifting.

 

'Another example' implies other instances. I'd certainly like to see the list...

 

Miley, Wade Lol for that matter have you see our entire rotation and what DJ has done with them? DJ is the coach of the year and it isn't particularly close.

 

I'm going to give you two DHs but you can put them at 1B and LF if you'd like since you know we play in the NL and all.

 

Oh that LF that can only play LF? I'm going to not trade him for Matt Kemp instead I'm going to let you figure out how to use your third DH.

 

We don't have a C, don't worry I'll trade for a 38 year old who couldn't charitably be called a journeyman. Btw I find it interesting that he has a better WAR as a pitcher than as a catcher.

 

So I got rid of the gritty All Star 2B everyone liked so we could keep the 2B you clearly don't like because you do everything you can to not play him, but don't worry my waiver wire magic will fix that. You like Brad Miller? How about Salad man? No? Ok I'll bring in a 3B to solve our 2B problem that I created in the first place.

 

I'm just having fun here but let's be honest, moving Shaw to 2B is move that even the biggest Stearns fan will really have trouble justifying.

[RollieTime]

Boras isn't bypassing FA if Moose does enough to make the Brewers want to exercise their half of the option so it's clearly a rental.

 

Playing guys out of position is nothing new but moving a barely mobile corner man to 2B is especially insane because range and agility matter and Shaw has none of those. Shifts of course can help but it's another example of Stearns giving CC and DJ imperfect solutions and letting them do the heavy lifting.

 

Stearns has done a fantastic job building this team. I don’t see how you feel like he’s leaving Counsell and Johnson out to dry.

 

Anderson, Chacin, Davies, Guerra, Suter for the rotation. That was with thinking Nelson was returning and Peralta would be coming up mid-season.

 

Bullpen of Hader, Knebel, Albers, Jeffress among others.

 

Possible lineup to start the year:

 

Cain

Yelich

Braun/Aguilar/Thames

Shaw after his breakout season

Santana after his monster season

Pina after a great year

Arcia after a great year

Villar/Perez

 

I really did not see any glaring hole to start the year. You can’t predict all the injuries or multiple players that took a major step backwards. Stearns has done as well as any of us could of hoped.

[Boomer5]

Shifts of course can help but it's another example of Stearns giving CC and DJ imperfect solutions and letting them do the heavy lifting.

So? That's why Stearns is the boss and they are the employees. Stearns does plenty to ease their jobs, no reason everything has to be to ease their jobs... They signed on to the heavy lifting...

 

I guess but if my employees want a screwdriver I don't give them a hammer, ya know?

[TJH123]

Hiura could be ready as soon as next year he doesn’t have much left to prove, so even if Moustakas is gone after this year Shaw could move back to 3B and Hiura could be ready. I’m warming up to this move a bit because I didn’t realize that Moustakas has an even lower K rate than Yelich and Cain, but his average is still low. And I’m sad Phillips is gone.

[xisxisxis]

I guess but if my employees want a screwdriver I don't give them a hammer, ya know?

I look at it more like they ask for a hammer and you give them a brick... sure it will work, but not as easy...

[Eye Black]

I saw on Twitter (but unverified) that Moustakas is going to wear #18 since Braun already has #8 locked up. If true, it is little bit funny that they are giving him Sogard’s number even though Sogard is back in the organization.

[Fear The Chorizo]

What this trade essentially does is replace the Brewers' season-to-date 2B OPS of 0.644 with Moustakas, a low K% hitter with 20 bombs and a 2018 0.778 OPS that is largely slugging-driven. That's a huge offensive boost. Shifting Shaw to 2B probably stings the defense a bit, but with Arcia at SS will Shaw really be that much worse than Villar/Miller/Perez at 2B defensively?

 

Also, I don't see the concern about being too left-handed in the lineup. The Brewers only play the Cubs a few more times this year, so it doesn't make sense to base hitting moves off potential starting pitcher matchups - most of the arms they will face between now and end of year are RH starters. Plus, imagine getting Santana back up and rolling with solid platoon options between 1B, 3B, OF positions, and 2B using the combination of Shaw (3b/2b), Moose (3b), Braun (OF, 1B), Aguilar (1B/3B), Santana (OF), Villar (2B), and Thames (1B, OF). Tons of positional flexibility and a quality bench to keep guys fresh.

[Jenkins5]

Considering how well Corey Ray has played in AA this year, the Brewers likely saw Phillips as a 7th Outfielder at best over the next 3-4 years. Considering the upcoming 40 Man Roster crunch, they needed to move Phillips.

 

Moustakas makes the Brewers better. I'm happy about that. Similar to Cain, he has a proven track record in deep postseason runs, too, which is something I like a lot....

 

Didn't realize that Corey Ray was finally beasting! K's could come down but I'll take a 30/30 season (40/40 upside?)

 

If Ray gets the bump to AAA, CS could really help him get to that rare Greg Vaughn level 30/30 season this year!(30/40 most likely) Phillips & Lopez really just kind of got buried here. Phillips wasn’t going to force Yelich, Cain, Braun out of way. Still behind Santana, Thames, and probably even with Broxton. Ray & Stokes are rising.

 

More I think about it & sit on it.... the more I like the deal. I am a Moose fan as the Royals have been my 2nd favorite team since the Greinke trade & Yost coming.

 

Interesting read on Moose here. His bat will play much better in Milwaukee than it did in KC. He’s a very park dependent. Lefty power flyball pull hitters have made a great living at Miller Park. Moose should thrive at home.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mike-moustakas-is-the-former-royal-you-want/

[Montezuma]

Shaw at 2nd base is not perfect, but serviceable. Late inning replacements are sitting on the bench ready to play defense. I am excited to watch tonight's game and I appreciate DS executing a couple of trades that make our team stronger not only on paper, but also on the field. And you cannot tell me that attendance will not be affected in a positive way.

[xisxisxis]

I think Moustakas is going to be in the same boat as he was in this past off season if he turns down that $15m option.

 

I'm thinking of a line... I'll give you a point and a pencil. Draw a straight line through the point and see if you can match my line....

 

Last year was the first year that there wasn't a feeding frenzy in Free Agency. Much of the excuses were that it was a poor year for FA and teams were trying to stay under the luxury tax limit to make a run at free agents this year. Nothing in the data suggests that there won't be a return to excess money flowing next year. Once Machado and Harper are off the market, there should be demand for 2nd tier FA. I can see the Angels and Nats making strong bids for a 3B (Nats can move Rendon to 2B if Murphy leaves) where they don't appear to have holes at the moment. Cleveland could very well move JoseRam to 2B and go after a 3B... The Cards could also be in the mix as they will be under pressure to add offense... At least the Cubs, Yankees and Red Sox are likely out, while the Dodgers could move Turner to 2B and they should have some money if they lose out on Machado or Harper...

[clancyphile]

Does this make the Brewers a better team today? Yes

 

Does this increase the likelihood that the Brewers make the playoffs? Yes

 

Does this increase the likelihood that the Brewers might win a game in the playoffs? Yes

 

Does this make the Brewer a better team for next year? Nope

 

My initial disappointment with the trade is not getting controllable talent for next year. Maybe the Orioles wanted too much for either/both of Gaussman and Schoop... Rentals do have a benefit and the prospects we gave up are not in the Brantley/Cruz category of ceiling... Phillips has a hole in his bat the size of a watermelon and Bat holes are the hardest to fix... If defense will be effected, but the difference from (Shaw-2B) + (Mouse-Shaw) > any other combination we have and as pointed out, the Brewers use a lot of IF shifting so I expect on some occasions Mouse & Shaw will be side-by side and Arcia will be covering most of the 2B side... Overall we may lose a few DP and give up a few more singles in the hole, but with some creative placement of the IF we can minimize the defensive issues... Mouse gives us another high OPS/low OBP bat so if we get a team hot streak starting game 163, who knows...

 

Long-term, we will have both Burnes and Peralta in the rotation mix for next year and, hopefully, a fully recovered Jimmy Nelson. We will still need to upgrade 2B/C/SS and as I pointed out in another thread, there are a ton of FA 2B coming and there are a few options at C on the FA market for upgrades to either of those 2 positions, so I am more comfortable kicking those issues down the road...

 

Moose is controllable through 2019 - there is that mutual option.

 

He has an option to stick around, but so do the Brewers.

[PeaveyFury]

Well, thanks for providing that list. Let's review, then:

 

Miley, Wade Lol for that matter have you see our entire rotation and what DJ has done with them? DJ is the coach of the year and it isn't particularly close.

 

Despite only 5 starts (4 really, since he left the Cleveland game after one out), Miley has been solidly above replacement level so far. It may not be pretty, but he has yet to give up more than 2 runs when he's pitched.

 

And the rest of the rotation? Sure, there is room for improvement, but the team has 60 wins, and has rarely missed a beat despite substantial injuries and no contribution from Nelson. Yeah, DJ gets a lot of the credit, but you could also suggest that the front office may have had a better feel for the depth that was there than us fans actually did.

 

This is why speaking in absolutes is dangerous. Despite your repeated assertations that the Brewers would sign another starter, they didn't. But the one they did sign (Chacin) has been an anchor in the rotation, and the other options available to them have been terrible for the teams they did sign with. Seems like the GM made the right decisions there.

 

I'm going to give you two DHs but you can put them at 1B and LF if you'd like since you know we play in the NL and all.

 

Go and actually look at Jesus' defensive performance this year- almost exactly average as a 1B. Not a DH at all. And Thames? Sure, he's more valuable as a DH. But he's missed significant time this year, and has still contributed enough with the bat to be valuable. How does that put 'heavy lifting' on Counsell, exactly? Isn't the manager supposed to determine how to get his best players on the field?

 

Oh that LF that can only play LF? I'm going to not trade him for Matt Kemp instead I'm going to let you figure out how to use your third DH.

 

Was the Matt Kemp stuff an actual, legitimate rumor, or just people speculating on a message board? Until his resurgance last year, Kemp looked even worse on paper than Braun, and the only reason a trade seemed to make sense was because he was overpaid for less years. If you saw his 2018 performance coming, please tell me tonight's Powerball numbers.

 

We don't have a C, don't worry I'll trade for a 38 year old who couldn't charitably be called a journeyman. Btw I find it interesting that he has a better WAR as a pitcher than as a catcher.

 

You mean the trade to replace a terrible backup catcher who wasn't supposed to be the backup until another guy's career ended unexpectedly? And despite how Kratz has performed, he's actually been better than Bandy was in his time here and only slightly below replacement level... seems like they actually did upgrade the #2 catcher position via that no-cost move....

 

So I got rid of the gritty All Star 2B everyone liked so we could keep the 2B you clearly don't like because you do everything you can to not play him, but don't worry my waiver wire magic will fix that. You like Brad Miller? How about Salad man? No? Ok I'll bring in a 3B to solve our 2B problem that I created in the first place.

 

You mean that move that happened two seasons ago? Again, if you saw Scooter's explosion coming, I'll take those Lottery numbers. I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt that Villar could have been predicted to step back some. But if we're not looking back in hindsight, what would things have looked like on this board if they had instead dumped the guy who had just OPS'd .826 with 62 steals as a 25 year old and kept the 27 year old who had regressed the previous two seasons and played below-average defense. And yeah, Miller didn't work out. But don't the acquisitions of Saladino and Miller show the willingness of the front office to try and fix the problems or get rid of some of the 'heavy lifting' you're claiming the coaches have to do? This also requires the assumption that those acquisitions (especially Miller) were only related to 2B and had nothing to do with trying to fix the unexpected Arcia problem, which is massively incorrect.

 

I'm just having fun here but let's be honest, moving Shaw to 2B is move that even the biggest Stearns fan will really have trouble justifying.

 

Sure, I suppose it's puzzling on paper. But most of us would at least like to see two things- 1) how does Shaw actually look if he plays there, and/or 2) what does the team actually look like at the end of the day on Tuesday? Moaning about the move today doesn't even give it a chance to see whether it works out or not, or what comes next.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but CC or DS did say last night that MM is open to playing second. They've already floated that so it's another possible outcome eventually.

[Dantae]

I can’t wait to come back to this thread a few months from now after Shaw shows he can play a respectable 2nd base and Moose takes at Miller Park. Do you honestly think Stearns & Counsell just decided yesterday to try something like this? I trust that this organization knows a hell of a lot more than we do. So just sit back, crack open a beer tonight and relax. Watch it play out before jumping off the ledge. Using a different approach to solve a problem does not imply that it’s made out of desperation.

[3and2Fastball]

The game is really changing. Lots of K's and lots of HR's. Tons of shifting and hitters trying to put the ball in the air. Shaw at 2B isn't the craziest thing I've seen, considering he likely won't amd shouldn't start vs top LHP's and there are capable late inning defensive replacements available.

 

The poster(s) who said that we are basically replacing Miller/Villar with Moustakas are correct. That is a tremendous offensive upgrade. And the Moose will be loose in Miller Park, not the bigger outfields/stadiums of the AL Central.

 

I just hope we get one more strong starting pitcher, otherwise this still looks to me like a better version of the 2012 Brewers. Yes, it is possible that we can get super hot and out slug our opponents in the postseason, but that isn't usually how Baseball works.

 

As a piece of the puzzle I am thrilled with this trade. And yes, this Stearns fan likes the idea of Shaw at 2B! (Although I wouldn't be shocked if this is a short term smokescreen before we trade Shaw as part of a package for a TOR starter)

[adambr2]

I didn't realize how low of a strikeout guy Moustakas is. I just kind of assumed that a low OBP guy with a lot of power is going to be a high K player.

[coolhandluke121]

Boras isn't bypassing FA if Moose does enough to make the Brewers want to exercise their half of the option so it's clearly a rental.

 

Not so sure. A full season at Miller and then hitting free agency in a more favorable market could be a good gamble for them. And let's be real; he's a ~.320ish OBP guy at best and the market isn't all of a sudden gonna start breaking the bank for guys like that again.