Brewers Trade for Mike Moustakas, Royals receive Phillips and Lopez

[MoreTrife]

I don't mind having Moustakas around, but it does bother me to an extent how lefty heavy we have become in the lineup.

 

The troublesome part about this trend is how poorly it matches us up with the main competition in our division, the Cubs, who are almost exclusively left handed in their rotation. It essentially neutralizes 3 of our biggest offensive weapons in Shaw, Moustakas and Thames.

 

I guess it probably is helpful to Aguilar and Braun to some degree but not as much as it hurts us when you have to take out Shaw and Moustakas for Perez + Villar or Saladino basically every time you face the Cubs.

 

Yep. Posted this earlier. We have the rare problem now of too many LHed bats.

[MoreTrife]

For those in the "Shaw trade just be incoming" camp: there better be a middle infielder incoming as well because if Shaw is traded we have the Gap at second again.

 

Twins must have been greedy on Dozier. Hope they lose him for nothing.

[JosephC]

I hate this trade because I'm not much of a fan of Moustakas. No question the guy can hit the long ball and can win a team a couple games because of it. But he's also a low OBP guy who doesn't contribute much offensively when he's not hitting home runs. Fly ball guys may be the current rage, but those guys, Moustakas among them, makes a lot of easy outs. This year his infield fly ball percentage is 19.0%. That's 8th highest for batters with 300+ plate appearances. He was also in the top 20 last year. I don't like compromising the middle infield defense to put another low OBP bat in the lineup.

 

I also hate the idea of giving up Phillips in a deal like this. A young athlete with all sorts of upside who I thought did pretty well during his short stay in Milwaukee, if I'm a KC fan I'd be absolutely thrilled to have him.

 

A third baseman and reliever with the significant problems the Brewers have had at middle infielder and catcher? I just can't believe it. I will point out that Moustakas did play some shortstop in the minors. So I guess if Arcia has a bad couple days at the plate, the Brewers could move Moustakas to shortstop, Aguilar to third base and trade for a first baseman, preferably one who struggles to OBP .310.

[Boomer5]

If all we wanted are guys who hit HRs we could have kept Khrush. Well and Scooter since we keep trying to fill his spot.

 

It will be an interesting time until the deadline.

[PeaveyFury]

 

If the Cubs had done this wed all be laughing at them and rightly so.

 

I've already gotten a good enough laugh at their expense for expecting Hamels to stabilize their rotation.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Moustakas will add some runs offensively in a handful of games. Shaw will certainly cost some runs defensively, time will tell how much and how frequently.

 

I think it is a legitimate question to ask, would the Brewers actually win more games this year with or without Moustakas? Would be interested to see if there’s a stat out there at the end of the year that can shine some light on this

[Brewersfanatic2882]

I feel like Shaw will be decent over there, if anything, he can't be worse than the defense that salidino, miller, and villar bring to the position. He may lack the range but we've had much worse in the past. I'd just give him a week to get confortable over there and the offense that he will bring to the position will be well worth it. We got a lot better with this trade in my oppinion

[PeaveyFury]

From the GM who finally figured out how to make the closer concept irrelevant I'm providing a fair share of trust (also after 1.5 very competitive seasons) that he knows something we don't about the defense.

 

This. Having slept on it, I'm convinced that this trade means one of two things: that Shaw's defense as they had him try 2B looked much better than any of us know/expect, or that they have zero intention of him playing there. I can't envision them spending an offseason improving defense and acquiring a type of player that improved us there only to throw that notion out the window this summer.

 

For those thinking this means Shaw gets traded, why not Moustakas? It doesn't happen often in baseball, but what if they intended to move Phillips and Lopez, thought this was the best return they could get, but have had conversations with the Braves or whomever to flip him for a MLB-ready asset that they like more than what we gave up? Maybe not likely, but it seems at least plausible.

[Montezuma]

Excellent news and a quality move by DS. Well done.

[Eye Black]

I don't mind having Moustakas around, but it does bother me to an extent how lefty heavy we have become in the lineup.

 

The troublesome part about this trend is how poorly it matches us up with the main competition in our division, the Cubs, who are almost exclusively left handed in their rotation. It essentially neutralizes 3 of our biggest offensive weapons in Shaw, Moustakas and Thames.

 

I guess it probably is helpful to Aguilar and Braun to some degree but not as much as it hurts us when you have to take out Shaw and Moustakas for Perez + Villar or Saladino basically every time you face the Cubs.

The sad part though is that Moustakas’ .707 OPS split against left handed batters this year is still significantly better than the OPS the Brewers have gotten in the 6th (.610 OPS), 7th (.699 OPS), and 8th (.576 OPS) spots in the batting order this season.

[Never Outhustled]

Moose will get a significant Miller Park boost. KC's home park is brutal for lefty power. Don't be surprised if Mouse finishes the year with 40 Homers.

[ShawnSpencer]

Yes, because Scooter was such a prodigious power hitter while here.

[PeaveyFury]

Yes, because Scooter was such a prodigious power hitter while here.

 

Remember, he changed his swing when he went to Cincy. One player is an exception, not a rule. Miller Park is a hitter-friendly park.

[jonescm128]

I hate this trade because I'm not much of a fan of Moustakas. No question the guy can hit the long ball and can win a team a couple games because of it. But he's also a low OBP guy who doesn't contribute much offensively when he's not hitting home runs. Fly ball guys may be the current rage, but those guys, Moustakas among them, makes a lot of easy outs. This year his infield fly ball percentage is 19.0%. That's 8th highest for batters with 300+ plate appearances. He was also in the top 20 last year. I don't like compromising the middle infield defense to put another low OBP bat in the lineup.

 

I also hate the idea of giving up Phillips in a deal like this. A young athlete with all sorts of upside who I thought did pretty well during his short stay in Milwaukee, if I'm a KC fan I'd be absolutely thrilled to have him.

 

A third baseman and reliever with the significant problems the Brewers have had at middle infielder and catcher? I just can't believe it. I will point out that Moustakas did play some shortstop in the minors. So I guess if Arcia has a bad couple days at the plate, the Brewers could move Moustakas to shortstop, Aguilar to third base and trade for a first baseman, preferably one who struggles to OBP .310.

 

But MM isn't a prototypical lefty power hitter because he doesn't strike out very often - only 15%, and he actually hits lefties pretty well. You also can't just look at Moustakas in a vacuum. Shaw & Moustakas is better than Shaw & Perez, Miller, etc...

[LouisEly]

There will be another move. No way they are playing Shaw at 2B.

Care to wager?

Exactly. Moustakas is not an upgrade over Shaw, so why acquire Moustakas to trade Shaw? And who would be in the market for Shaw that has a star 2B or SP they would be willing to give up to get Shaw? I know that Shaw isn't a FA until 2022, but he's 28; typically teams who would deal solid major league starters are looking for younger prospects with more control.

 

Surprised it took until page 9 to mention that Moustakas only strikes out 15.1% of the time. He's also having a below-average season in terms of BABIP and goes to a better park for LH power, so there's reason to believe his offense will improve.

 

What makes me scratch my head about this deal though is that four of the Cubs' five SPs are LHPs (Lester, Quintana, Hamels, Montgomery; not banking on Darvish). Shouldn't they be adding RHH? Twins and Orioles must have been greedy about Dozier and Schoop respectively.

[liveforoctober]

I don't mind having Moustakas around, but it does bother me to an extent how lefty heavy we have become in the lineup.

 

The troublesome part about this trend is how poorly it matches us up with the main competition in our division, the Cubs, who are almost exclusively left handed in their rotation. It essentially neutralizes 3 of our biggest offensive weapons in Shaw, Moustakas and Thames.

 

I guess it probably is helpful to Aguilar and Braun to some degree but not as much as it hurts us when you have to take out Shaw and Moustakas for Perez + Villar or Saladino basically every time you face the Cubs.

 

I don't know that this is a problem. Villar is hitting over .300 against LHP. Shaw shouldn't be playing against lefties right now and Moustakas doesn't exactly have earth shattering numbers against them either.

 

Against LHP

 

Cain (CF)

Yelich (LF)

Braun (1B)

Aguilar (3B)

Santana (RF) <--- come September

Villar (2B)

Pina ©

Arcia (SS)

 

Against RHP

 

Cain (CF)

Yelich (RF)

Moustakas (3B)

Shaw (2B)

Braun (LF)

Thames (1B)

Pina ©

Arcia (SS)

 

That leaves you a crazy good/balanced bench on either day with (against LH): Moustakas, Shaw, Thames, Saladino or Perez, Kratz or (Against RH): Aguilar, Santana, Villar, Saladino or Perez, Kratz

 

Those are both very good offensive lineups with one defensive question mark (Aguilar at 3rd and Shaw at 2nd) ...

[StearnsFTW]

I know Phillips is having a down year but that's a ton to give up for a rental guy we could have just signed over the past winter.

 

We weren't forward thinking enough last winter to try out a guy who moves like a 70 year old man with arthritic knees at 2B.

 

 

Could you exaggerate a little more? I don't particularly like this move either, but this is a little over the top even for you.

[Nader Raider Tim]

I'm not the biggest Moustakas fan, but I'm more than happy with this trade. Hopefully Moustakas can go on one of his hot streaks and really help ignite the offense. Shaw moving to 2nd base reminds me of when the Cardinals moved Matt Carpenter to 2nd for a while. Sure it'll be a bit exciting having him out there but the offense could see a nice boost.

 

My initial reaction to losing Phillips and Lopez, was "meh, opens up 2 4o man spots this offseason".

[jonescm128]

I don't mind having Moustakas around, but it does bother me to an extent how lefty heavy we have become in the lineup.

 

The troublesome part about this trend is how poorly it matches us up with the main competition in our division, the Cubs, who are almost exclusively left handed in their rotation. It essentially neutralizes 3 of our biggest offensive weapons in Shaw, Moustakas and Thames.

 

I guess it probably is helpful to Aguilar and Braun to some degree but not as much as it hurts us when you have to take out Shaw and Moustakas for Perez + Villar or Saladino basically every time you face the Cubs.

 

I don't know that this is a problem. Villar is hitting over .300 against LHP. Shaw shouldn't be playing against lefties right now and Moustakas doesn't exactly have earth shattering numbers against them either.

 

Against LHP

 

Cain (CF)

Yelich (LF)

Braun (1B)

Aguilar (3B)

Santana (RF) <--- come September

Villar (2B)

Pina ©

Arcia (SS)

 

Against RHP

 

Cain (CF)

Yelich (RF)

Moustakas (3B)

Shaw (2B)

Braun (LF)

Thames (1B)

Pina ©

Arcia (SS)

 

That leaves you a crazy good/balanced bench on either day with (against LH): Moustakas, Shaw, Thames, Saladino or Perez, Kratz or (Against RH): Aguilar, Santana, Villar, Saladino or Perez, Kratz

 

Those are both very good offensive lineups with one defensive question mark (Aguilar at 3rd and Shaw at 2nd) ...

 

Yeah you're right. Aguilar doesn't match up well against RHP - .288/.360/.603 with 20 HRs

 

MM has a .707 OPS against lefties. Thats much better than Shaw's .533

 

I see it like this:

 

RHP

Thames - RF

Cain - CF

Yelich - LF

Aguilar - 1B

Shaw - 2B

Moose - 3B

Pina - C

Arcia - SS

 

LHP

Cain - CF

Yelich - RF

Aguilar - 1B

Braun - LF

Moose - 3B

Villar - 2B

Pina - C

Arcia - SS

[Devinep]

I don't mind having Moustakas around, but it does bother me to an extent how lefty heavy we have become in the lineup.

 

The troublesome part about this trend is how poorly it matches us up with the main competition in our division, the Cubs, who are almost exclusively left handed in their rotation. It essentially neutralizes 3 of our biggest offensive weapons in Shaw, Moustakas and Thames.

 

I guess it probably is helpful to Aguilar and Braun to some degree but not as much as it hurts us when you have to take out Shaw and Moustakas for Perez + Villar or Saladino basically every time you face the Cubs.

 

I don't know that this is a problem. Villar is hitting over .300 against LHP. Shaw shouldn't be playing against lefties right now and Moustakas doesn't exactly have earth shattering numbers against them either.

 

Against LHP

 

Cain (CF)

Yelich (LF)

Braun (1B)

Aguilar (3B)

Santana (RF) <--- come September

Villar (2B)

Pina ©

Arcia (SS)

 

Against RHP

 

Cain (CF)

Yelich (RF)

Moustakas (3B)

Shaw (2B)

Braun (LF)

Thames (1B)

Pina ©

Arcia (SS)

 

That leaves you a crazy good/balanced bench on either day with (against LH): Moustakas, Shaw, Thames, Saladino or Perez, Kratz or (Against RH): Aguilar, Santana, Villar, Saladino or Perez, Kratz

 

Those are both very good offensive lineups with one defensive question mark (Aguilar at 3rd and Shaw at 2nd) ...

 

yeah Aguilar hasn’t shown enough to start vs RHP

[liveforoctober]

I don't mind having Moustakas around, but it does bother me to an extent how lefty heavy we have become in the lineup.

 

The troublesome part about this trend is how poorly it matches us up with the main competition in our division, the Cubs, who are almost exclusively left handed in their rotation. It essentially neutralizes 3 of our biggest offensive weapons in Shaw, Moustakas and Thames.

 

I guess it probably is helpful to Aguilar and Braun to some degree but not as much as it hurts us when you have to take out Shaw and Moustakas for Perez + Villar or Saladino basically every time you face the Cubs.

 

I don't know that this is a problem. Villar is hitting over .300 against LHP. Shaw shouldn't be playing against lefties right now and Moustakas doesn't exactly have earth shattering numbers against them either.

 

Against LHP

 

Cain (CF)

Yelich (LF)

Braun (1B)

Aguilar (3B)

Santana (RF) <--- come September

Villar (2B)

Pina ©

Arcia (SS)

 

Against RHP

 

Cain (CF)

Yelich (RF)

Moustakas (3B)

Shaw (2B)

Braun (LF)

Thames (1B)

Pina ©

Arcia (SS)

 

That leaves you a crazy good/balanced bench on either day with (against LH): Moustakas, Shaw, Thames, Saladino or Perez, Kratz or (Against RH): Aguilar, Santana, Villar, Saladino or Perez, Kratz

 

Those are both very good offensive lineups with one defensive question mark (Aguilar at 3rd and Shaw at 2nd) ...

 

yeah Aguilar hasn’t shown enough to start vs RHP

 

BUT THAT'S MY POINT. I left our best first half hitter out of one of the lineups to show how versatile our roster is right now. Of course Aguilar is going to play, but we can remove any person from our lineup right now and is a little bit of a shrug because we now have bodies to fill IF Shaw is actually going to play 2B. I stretched a little to assume Santana still has unfinished business this season ... but we can flex our lineup however we want to play the guys swinging well against whatever hand is throwing against us.

 

If the plan really is to play Shaw at 2B ... our offense just became incredibly versatile.

[rickh150]

Resetting the rumored Moustakas interest from this past January as captured in the Sign Moustakas, Trade Shaw Thread, the off-season speculation on the Brewers interest in Moustakas initially came from Jim Bowden via this Tweet:

 

#Brewers continue to be “in” on RHP Jake Arrieta & also 3B Michael Moustakas with the idea that if they signed Moustakas they could trade Travis Shaw to NYY, ATL or NYM according to a club source.

 

Are we making a run at deGrom?

Shaw, Santana, Peralta???

 

What we've read....

Stearns wants a guy that leads this rotation (now and near future)

Mets want to be competitive next year (not a full rebuild)

Brewers were at least thinking sign Moose and flip Shaw (to possibly Mets)

Rozier/Shoop still out there for 2B

Stearns has a couple moves still in him

[OnTheBlack]

I'm with virtually everyone here. I'm not upset about giving away two guys who were almost in the way with regards to what's going to be a crowded 40 man roster this next off-season and where some tough decisions just got a bit easier. I like Moose. So the value in that trade is fine.

 

And while Shaw's not a 70 year old man with arthritic knees and I don't want to rise to that level of hysteria as Stearns has been a pretty damn good GM for us, I just can't wrap my head around Shaw at 2nd. Maybe he'll be much better than we expect. Maybe he's never gonna actually play there and he'll be in another trade shortly(I do kinda doubt they're gonna give up a viable 3rd baemen without any replacement for him given how long it's taken to develop one and the ONE real hope we have is still two years away most likely).

 

Maybe this will magically work out like Carpenter did when he moved to 2nd....but this rumor had me scratching my head and this move has me doing it even more. Could Dozier really have cost that much more for example? Give me him over Moose any day of the week. He is a plug and play guy without having to throw caution to the wind when it comes to Defense.

 

 

 

Oh...and this also impacts Arcia. We better hope he can start swinging the bat, because there is NO WAY you can take him out of the line up now. You may have to deal with two pitcher type holes in your lineup, because even if he's hitting .190, I don't see how you go back to Saladino and his terrible D(and worse facial hair).

[Jenkins5]

Offense has been a on again off again problem all season. We all wanted a bat at 2B & I say Shaw’s bat is huge improvement there. Same time we keep a big power bat at 3B. Moose doesnt walk much but he also doesn’t K too much.

 

I think DS & CC both know enough about baseball to trust their decision to make this trade based on Shaw needing to play 2B. They started in May having him take ground ball over there & think they have prepared for this option a bit.

 

I’m interested to see how it plays out. I like it for fact we need offense in the middle of infield. Defensively we will see. With Arcia up, Shaw at 2B is only real weak spot.... before Arcia came up.... 2B & SS were wide open for opposing teams to attack up middle...

 

Jury out but as of know I support & like the trade. DS hasn’t steered me wrong yet

[MrTPlush]

Well this will all depend on Shaw’s defense at 2nd, but to summarize...

 

We just traded two legit prospects away for another rental that is going to shift Shaw over to 2nd (to likely play bad defense) and Moose isn’t even that great of a hitter...?

 

Umm...face value (I just woke up first time seeing these trade) this seems like way too much to give up and not that great of an idea period.

 

We have now thrown away Medeiros, Lopez, and Phillips for two rentals. Better be adding to the rotation and truly making a run now. I was hoping when I saw a trade with the Royals it would be Merrifield...not Moose.