Cubs Acquire Cole Hamels from Rangers

[MoreTrife]

Just chalk up zero or one earned run for Cole Hamels in perpetuity.

[adambr2]

Seriously, how bad does the Rangers pitching coach look?

[brewmann04]

The Brewers failed to make a move for a starter that was needed. He really needs to focus on that during the offseason. It will really stink not making the playoffs this season but i am really starting to change about trading prospects for established players. I would keep as many arm prospect as possible though.

[Bulldogboy]

Anytime a pitcher goes from the AL to the NL you might as bet on improved results. Happens every season. Guzsman also loving life in the NL. Brewers blew it.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Anytime a pitcher goes from the AL to the NL you might as bet on improved results. Happens every season. Guzsman also loving life in the NL. Brewers blew it.

 

Chris Archer says hi.

[pacopete4]

Anytime a pitcher goes from the AL to the NL you might as bet on improved results. Happens every season. Guzsman also loving life in the NL. Brewers blew it.

 

Chris Archer says hi.

 

Could you even imagine if Stearns got Archer and he pitched the way he has? I couldn’t check the forum with all that mess going on.

[buckybrewer232]

Anytime a pitcher goes from the AL to the NL you might as bet on improved results. Happens every season. Guzsman also loving life in the NL. Brewers blew it.

 

Chris Archer says hi.

 

After seeing the price the Pirates paid for Archer, I haven't seen many fans saying that Stearns should've beaten that offer.

 

Gausman and Hamels both went pretty cheap, that's the difference.

[pacopete4]

Gausman wasn’t cheap.

[danzig6767]

For as great as the Hamels pickup for the Cubs has been, Gausman has been nearly as good and the Braves have two more years of control.

Reason for optimism for the Braves that they've traded for a better pitcher than he was for the O's:

 

He's throwing a lot more changeups. Maybe this is a big difference in his results.

 

Reason for pessimism that he's the same old pitcher and will regress to his inconsistent 4 FIP self:

 

He's faced the Marlins x2, Brewers (insert jokes here), Mets, and Pirates. That is a dose of what you get in the NL but he has hardly been in a tough situation.

Those teams regularly score more runs against other pitchers than they scored against Gausman.

 

Put it to you this way. Is there a starter on the Brewers who you think would have a sub-2 ERA in those starts instead?

 

Who knows how well he'll do going forward given a small sample size so far, but he has the arm and stuff which got him drafted 4th overall, he just couldn't put it together in Baltimore. If Gausman does though produce a lot better in Atlanta, he certainly wouldn't be the first player to perform much better after a change of teams for a variety of potential reasons.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Anytime a pitcher goes from the AL to the NL you might as bet on improved results. Happens every season. Guzsman also loving life in the NL. Brewers blew it.

 

Chris Archer says hi.

 

Could you even imagine if Stearns got Archer and he pitched the way he has? I couldn’t check the forum with all that mess going on.

 

Yep, I wanted Archer, and hated the idea of trading for Hamels. It's a good thing I'm not the team's GM.

[adambr2]

I also hated the idea of trading for Hamels. I would have been happy with Archer, but only at the right price, certainly not what Pittsburgh paid. I will add every situation is unique, and its possible if Hamels were here he wouldn't be having the success he has had in Chicago. It's also possible Archer would be developing into an ace here.

 

Congrats to Theo and the Cubs, they nailed this one, great pickup. With that said the Hamels story isn't over yet. Perhaps he carries them to a WS, or perhaps he massively collapses in the playoffs. I will say, his current rate of success with the Cubs isn't sustainable.

[torts]

Anytime a pitcher goes from the AL to the NL you might as bet on improved results. Happens every season. Guzsman also loving life in the NL. Brewers blew it.

 

Chris Archer says hi.

 

After seeing the price the Pirates paid for Archer, I haven't seen many fans saying that Stearns should've beaten that offer.

 

Gausman and Hamels both went pretty cheap, that's the difference.

 

Gausman (and O'Day) cost the Braves six prospects. Hamels cost three prospects plus a $5 million bill for 2 months, so I dont think you can say either of them are cheap.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Gausman (and O'Day) cost the Braves six prospects. Hamels cost three prospects plus a $5 million bill for 2 months, so I dont think you can say either of them are cheap.

 

I think it's more about the quality of the prospects that were acquired. None of the guys the Braves gave up for Gausman and O'Day were necessarily highly ranked. And you know the Cubs didn't give up anyone of significance, because they don't have anyone of significance in their system.

 

Personally, I think the Brewers chose the wrong Oriole to acquire. I would have gladly given up the package they used on Schoop for Gausman.

[buckybrewer232]

Just because the guys traded were minor leaguers doesn't mean they are prospects. The "prospects" the Cubs gave up for Hamels were a whole lot of nothing. The "prospects" given up by the Braves for Gausman were not top prospects by any stretch. The collective talent we gave up for Moose, Schoop, and Soria is better than the combined prospects dealt in the Gausman and Hamels trades.

[bill hAll Star]

Just because the guys traded were minor leaguers doesn't mean they are prospects. The "prospects" the Cubs gave up for Hamels were a whole lot of nothing. The "prospects" given up by the Braves for Gausman were not top prospects by any stretch. The collective talent we gave up for Moose, Schoop, and Soria is better than the combined prospects dealt in the Gausman and Hamels trades.

 

I'm not completely sure about that (Gausman). We were going to non-tender Villar even if he does have a decent 1.5 years of putting up empty stats for Baltimore. Phillips is completely lost at the plate, Ortiz can't strike out more than 8 batters per 9 in AA and supposedly has a live arm, Lopez is just a guy. Carmona is the lotto ticket.

 

The O's got 2 or 3 lotto tickets for Gausman as well as an MLB caliber reliever that truly does throw gas and strike out a lot of MLB hitters.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Just because the guys traded were minor leaguers doesn't mean they are prospects. The "prospects" the Cubs gave up for Hamels were a whole lot of nothing. The "prospects" given up by the Braves for Gausman were not top prospects by any stretch. The collective talent we gave up for Moose, Schoop, and Soria is better than the combined prospects dealt in the Gausman and Hamels trades.

 

I'm not completely sure about that (Gausman). We were going to non-tender Villar even if he does have a decent 1.5 years of putting up empty stats for Baltimore. Phillips is completely lost at the plate, Ortiz can't strike out more than 8 batters per 9 in AA and supposedly has a live arm, Lopez is just a guy. Carmona is the lotto ticket.

 

The O's got 2 or 3 lotto tickets for Gausman as well as an MLB caliber reliever that truly does throw gas and strike out a lot of MLB hitters.

 

But if you ask some regulars around here, we "gutted the farm" in those three deals.

[buckybrewer232]

Just because the guys traded were minor leaguers doesn't mean they are prospects. The "prospects" the Cubs gave up for Hamels were a whole lot of nothing. The "prospects" given up by the Braves for Gausman were not top prospects by any stretch. The collective talent we gave up for Moose, Schoop, and Soria is better than the combined prospects dealt in the Gausman and Hamels trades.

 

I'm not completely sure about that (Gausman). We were going to non-tender Villar even if he does have a decent 1.5 years of putting up empty stats for Baltimore. Phillips is completely lost at the plate, Ortiz can't strike out more than 8 batters per 9 in AA and supposedly has a live arm, Lopez is just a guy. Carmona is the lotto ticket.

 

The O's got 2 or 3 lotto tickets for Gausman as well as an MLB caliber reliever that truly does throw gas and strike out a lot of MLB hitters.

 

We could back and forth on which group is actually better all day. That's not the point, the point is both of those guys- Gausman and Hamels- were had for packages that could've easily been beaten by the Brewers without selling the farm, AKA not having to give up Burnes or Hiura. Stearns decided to roll with the starting rotation he had, which ultimately has been a mistake to date. It's not just those 2 guys either- Happ, Lynn, Fiers, and yes even Harvey would've helped as well.

 

Stearns decided to use resources instead for a 3rd baseman when he already had a 3rd baseman, and a 2nd baseman who has really struggled. To date, it looks like he played it wrong. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why people have to rush to Stearn's defense on this and act like he made the right moves, or he couldn't have possibly beaten other offers. Or he had no reason to anticipate they might need some rotation help.

 

I still like Stearns and hope like heck these moves end up coming through. Who knows, maybe Schoop goes on an absolute tear the rest of the year, Shaw can suddenly play 2nd base, and Davies comes back and pitches like he did at the end of last year and Stearns looks like a genius. As of now, though, the deadline moves do not look good.

[tmwiese55]

While that's true that our guys weren't exactly world beaters either, they were still way better than what was given up for these pitchers.

 

Thing to note again is that we were on Hamel's no trade list. Archer would have cost legit prospects so was too expensive. Gausman looks like the missed opportunity due to us obviously having been in talks with Bal for a month leading up to it.

[bill hAll Star]

Just because the guys traded were minor leaguers doesn't mean they are prospects. The "prospects" the Cubs gave up for Hamels were a whole lot of nothing. The "prospects" given up by the Braves for Gausman were not top prospects by any stretch. The collective talent we gave up for Moose, Schoop, and Soria is better than the combined prospects dealt in the Gausman and Hamels trades.

 

I'm not completely sure about that (Gausman). We were going to non-tender Villar even if he does have a decent 1.5 years of putting up empty stats for Baltimore. Phillips is completely lost at the plate, Ortiz can't strike out more than 8 batters per 9 in AA and supposedly has a live arm, Lopez is just a guy. Carmona is the lotto ticket.

 

The O's got 2 or 3 lotto tickets for Gausman as well as an MLB caliber reliever that truly does throw gas and strike out a lot of MLB hitters.

 

We could back and forth on which group is actually better all day. That's not the point, the point is both of those guys- Gausman and Hamels- were had for packages that could've easily been beaten by the Brewers without selling the farm, AKA not having to give up Burnes or Hiura. Stearns decided to roll with the starting rotation he had, which ultimately has been a mistake to date. It's not just those 2 guys either- Happ, Lynn, Fiers, and yes even Harvey would've helped as well.

 

Stearns decided to use resources instead for a 3rd baseman when he already had a 3rd baseman, and a 2nd baseman who has really struggled. To date, it looks like he played it wrong. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why people have to rush to Stearn's defense on this and act like he made the right moves, or he couldn't have possibly beaten other offers. Or he had no reason to anticipate they might need some rotation help.

 

I still like Stearns and hope like heck these moves end up coming through. Who knows, maybe Schoop goes on an absolute tear the rest of the year, Shaw can suddenly play 2nd base, and Davies comes back and pitches like he did at the end of last year and Stearns looks like a genius. As of now, though, the deadline moves do not look good.

 

The Schoop trade is a loss so far. He risked it on a player that can have some bad streaks like this and he's having a bad streak like this.

 

Our offense was a need and Moustakas has helped that. The team's offense has been vastly better since acquiring him.

 

Soria was a pretty good acquisition.

 

I think most of the starters you mention have been good (Lynn, I'm not so sure. Starting to struggle again and he (like all of these guys, it seems) has only faced garbage offenses as well).

 

There's no doubt he could've grabbed one of those guys. Which one we actually had the right package/player for to win, I'm not sure. Some of those guys like Fiers fetched a Ortiz-esque return but it probably comes down to money. I'm guessing Stearns had the ability to dump $10-15 million for the rest of the year and Schoop's $4 million instead of someone like Hamels or Happ might be the difference in a game or two in the standings.

[StearnsFTW]

Just because the guys traded were minor leaguers doesn't mean they are prospects. The "prospects" the Cubs gave up for Hamels were a whole lot of nothing. The "prospects" given up by the Braves for Gausman were not top prospects by any stretch. The collective talent we gave up for Moose, Schoop, and Soria is better than the combined prospects dealt in the Gausman and Hamels trades.

 

I'm not completely sure about that (Gausman). We were going to non-tender Villar even if he does have a decent 1.5 years of putting up empty stats for Baltimore. Phillips is completely lost at the plate, Ortiz can't strike out more than 8 batters per 9 in AA and supposedly has a live arm, Lopez is just a guy. Carmona is the lotto ticket.

 

The O's got 2 or 3 lotto tickets for Gausman as well as an MLB caliber reliever that truly does throw gas and strike out a lot of MLB hitters.

 

But if you ask some regulars around here, we "gutted the farm" in those three deals.

 

One of the 5 guys the Brewers traded at the deadline may become an MLB regular. May.

 

I'm not even a little bit worried about anything we gave up. I agree with you on Gausman/Schoop too. I would've much rather had Gausman. He's going to be very good with competent coaching.

[xisxisxis]

Thing to note again is that we were on Hamel's no trade list.

 

Can we stop with this misinformation... While it was true that the Brewers were on Hamel's no trade list, it is also true that he said multiple times that he would waive the no-trade clause to go to a contender!!!!! The second part negates the first part...

[bill hAll Star]

Thing to note again is that we were on Hamel's no trade list.

 

Can we stop with this misinformation... While it was true that the Brewers were on Hamel's no trade list, it is also true that he said multiple times that he would waive the no-trade clause to go to a contender!!!!! The second part negates the first part...

 

That doesn't mean that if the Brewers and Cubs called offering a similar package that Hamels, with knowledge of this, couldn't have influenced this...or maybe the Rangers could've thrown him a bone as well.

[pacopete4]

Thing to note again is that we were on Hamel's no trade list.

 

Can we stop with this misinformation... While it was true that the Brewers were on Hamel's no trade list, it is also true that he said multiple times that he would waive the no-trade clause to go to a contender!!!!! The second part negates the first part...

 

That doesn't mean that if the Brewers and Cubs called offering a similar package that Hamels, with knowledge of this, couldn't have influenced this...or maybe the Rangers could've thrown him a bone as well.

 

Bingo.

[tmwiese55]

Exactly, we don't know what it would've led to. Maybe he would've demanded his option be picked up, maybe he would've waited to see what else came through and chose CHC instead. All I'm saying is that it was a hurdle. It's not misinformation, it's true and most here probably didn't know it. Sure it could've been overcome but it was in the equation.

[xisxisxis]

I think most of the starters you mention have been good (Lynn, I'm not so sure. Starting to struggle again and he (like all of these guys, it seems) has only faced garbage offenses as well).

I'm not a big fan of discounting offense simply because they are in the lower third of baseball. These are major league caliber players and they have plenty of talent. It's not like the teams are made up of AA prospects or Independent league players... The reds offense (with or without Votto) isn't very good, but they've lit up the Brewers pithcer's plenty so is our pitching staff made up of a bunch of hacks?