Cubs Acquire Cole Hamels from Rangers

[bill hAll Star]

And again, all teams dumpster dive a lot.

I ain't agin it and I think Stearns has done an excellent job (give a raise to whomever holds his ankles!)....

 

Why can't we at least pass the dumpster once in awhile and shop at friggin Goodwill...

 

I am just tired of other teams getting richer for $5M on a cole Hamels deal or Wilson Ramos for change...

 

Gausman (whom I am not all that fond of) was basically a salary dump by taking on Day's salary...

 

And save the small market economics/payrol for the Mark Attanasio sycophants club... The owners of this team are yearly taking home HUGE profits and while they give a lot of lip service about adding payroll when needed, how come it's NEVER needed!???! We couldn't afford the flyer on Hamels or Ramos? No? Of course I'll be lectured that we have no idea they wanted what Stearns offered! Yep, we don't, we only have an extremely reasonable deal that we couldn't match... AGAIN... And AGAIN... AND AGAIN...

 

Well, let's see. We've taken on Soria, Moustakas, and Schoop's contracts this year.

 

Last year we took on Walker and Swarzak.

 

Gausman was not a salary dump. The O's like the high risk/high reward younger prospects.

 

I agree that if we want to pick out moves that could've been good that Hamels might be one. Ramos also may be good, though I think it's going to be PTBNL (maybe a good oen) and not cash given that he came back quickly.

 

There are 29 other GMs and in any given trade deadline, 10-15 of them also have profitable owners willing to open the pocketbooks. We are not going to get every single good trade target at every single deadline.

 

You're going to end up hating the team you cheer for/baseball if all you do is take the list of 5 or so best acquisitions every deadline and say "see, we could've gotten these guys" not considering that there were 10-15 other teams vying for those players and there are also a lot of dud trades.

 

I'll give you that Stearns is gambling on his young/damaged goods starting pitching and may eventually lose. We'll see what happens the rest of this year and going forward.

[xisxisxis]

Well, let's see. We've taken on Soria, Moustakas, and Schoop's contracts this year.

 

My only response is to add a signature...

[Thurston Fluff]

I would argue Hamels was dumpster diving. He sucked and could be had for chump change. Hell we found Wade Miley for free and has helped us every bit as much as Hamels helped the Cubs so far. You can't just look at what happens in hindsight and say we should have taken the chance.

[xisxisxis]

I would argue Hamels was dumpster diving. He sucked and could be had for chump change. Hell we found Wade Miley for free and has helped us every bit as much as Hamels helped the Cubs so far. You can't just look at what happens in hindsight and say we should have taken the chance.

Do you ever bother to read a thread or do you just come in at the end and make what you think is a pithy comment?

[bill hAll Star]

Well, let's see. We've taken on Soria, Moustakas, and Schoop's contracts this year.

 

My only response is to add a signature...

 

Well, offense was a need at the trade deadline and we are averaging 4.7 runs/game since the Moustakas trade even with Schoop barely contributing in his short stint of games.

 

Now, one can argue that the decreased defensive range is costing us in runs against, I don't know, but the offense seems to be doing better against mostly good pitching staffs in this stint of games.

 

I do wonder why they didn't even just grab a sponge starter to soak up some innings that was on a bit higher of an order than Jordan Lyles, but maybe they'll have enough to get by once they get to September.

[xisxisxis]

Well, offense was a need at the trade deadline and we are averaging 4.7 runs/game since the Moustakas trade even with Schoop barely contributing in his short stint of games.

The Brewers offense is 7 batters and 2 pitchers (SP and Arcia). So at most Moose and Goose make up 2/7th of the offense. Their combined OPS isn't really that much better than what we had before to account for the uptick in RPG, but maybe Mouse had some more timely hits... I wasn't against acquiring him, but if Schoop was the only other addition (no upgrade to SP, no upgrade to C) then I would have passed on Schoop, Player of the week or not...

[Thurston Fluff]

I would argue Hamels was dumpster diving. He sucked and could be had for chump change. Hell we found Wade Miley for free and has helped us every bit as much as Hamels helped the Cubs so far. You can't just look at what happens in hindsight and say we should have taken the chance.

Do you ever bother to read a thread or do you just come in at the end and make what you think is a pithy comment?

 

No, I usually give up at the point when someone posts stats from three games and thinks they are making some sort of valid point about something.

[xisxisxis]

Cole Hamels has a career WAR of 46.7... way better than any of the retreads and never beens the brewers have in their rotation. His WAR this year is 1.1 which is tied for 3rd on the Brewers with their duct tape and bondo starting pitching. These aren't small sample numbers, these are facts...

 

I don't need to see 4 games of his performance since the trade to know he would have helped the Brewers rotation... Hamels Home/Away splits were clearly masking a decent pitcher under Arlington Park noise...

 

Yeah 4 games because he pitched another gem last night for the Cubs, while our strike zone adverse rookie lost another game (of course we can blame the offense for only scoring 2 runs, but the next time he gives up 6 and they score 5 the excuse will be what? the Umpire screwed us, or the grass was too short in the OF where the other team hit balls, or the team ran out of midol....)...

[jjfanec]

I am willing to admit I was completely wrong on hamels. Such a Cubs move

[Thurston Fluff]

I don't need to see 4 games of his performance since the trade to know he would have helped the Brewers rotation... Hamels Home/Away splits were clearly masking a decent pitcher under Arlington Park noise...

 

There is probably something to the park effect but that also depends on the time of year. Wriggly isn't exactly a pitchers haven in the summer like it can be in spring. In Texas homers aren't stifled in April and may by the cold like it is in Chicago. This time of year I think you'll find the home run totals to be closer.

Setting all that aside The Cubs made that move out of desperation, not because Epstein somehow knew something others didn't. If he did he wouldn't have signed Chatwood or Darvish. I guess the Brewers could have made such horrible free agent signings to make taking a gamble an aging veteran had something left in the tank worthwhile but I am not so sure that is the best thing to do for the long term health of the franchise.

[lowblow]

Don't beat yourself up about that. I remember when I posted that the Cubs essentially bought a lottery ticket with Hamels (and those have been known to be winners every now and then). Big market teams can afford to take more chances than small market teams because they have the financial strength to eat their mistakes. The Brewers can be winners, but it is much harder for them than for big market teams like the Cubs (who spent nearly seventy years acting like a small market team). Epstein and Hoyer aren't gods, but they like the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers understand the advantages their financial situation affords them and they leverage it.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Don't beat yourself up about that. I remember when I posted that the Cubs essentially bought a lottery ticket with Hamels (and those have been known to be winners every now and then). Big market teams can afford to take more chances than small market teams because they have the financial strength to eat their mistakes. The Brewers can be winners, but it is much harder for them than for big market teams like the Cubs (who spent nearly seventy years acting like a small market team). Epstein and Hoyer aren't gods, but they like the Yankees, Red Sox, and Dodgers understand the advantages their financial situation affords them and they leverage it.

Market size had little to do with it. He cost the Cubs around just $4-6 million this year and he’s a FA after the year if his team option isn’t exercised, Schoop will cost more. If we can’t afford that, then what are we even doing?

[Boomer5]

Theo > Stearns

[lowblow]

Actually he isn't a free agent after this year. The Cubs have a $20M option for him next year or a $4M buyout. But I think you miss what I am talking about in re Big Market teams. The Cubs gave Chatwood a $39M contract for 3 years and when he consistently failed to do the job, they got Hamels and put Chatwood in the back of the bullpen. A small market team couldn't afford to do that.

[MrTPlush]

You are sipping something good if you think Hamels was going to waive his no-trade clause to come here. Worthless argument going on here.

[Thurston Fluff]

I think one thing that gets lost in the whole Hamels debate is it seems like people are comparing what Hamels has done lately to what Peralta has done lately as if those are the only two options the Brewers had. If there weren't guys like Woodruff, Davies and Burnes to take over if Peralta can't get going maybe it would have made more sense to take a flyer on Hamels. I'm still not convinced Hamels ends up better than some combination of pitchers the Brewers have available. It's just picking the right one. My guess is Peralta is on a pretty short leash here on out.

[CrewFanBrewMan69]

Actually he isn't a free agent after this year. The Cubs have a $20M option for him next year or a $4M buyout. But I think you miss what I am talking about in re Big Market teams. The Cubs gave Chatwood a $39M contract for 3 years and when he consistently failed to do the job, they got Hamels and put Chatwood in the back of the bullpen. A small market team couldn't afford to do that.

The Rangers are covering the $4 million if the Cubs turn down the option, it's on the Cubs if they exercise the $20 million. The Brewers could've afforded to do that for this year and I'd guess the option wouldn't be picked up. And it's not just Hamels, if you don't get him go get Happ, Guasman, etc. It's ridiculous we didn't add a SP in some capacity.

[LouisEly]

You are sipping something good if you think Hamels was going to waive his no-trade clause to come here. Worthless argument going on here.

Why would Hamels not have wanted to go to a team 1.5 games out of first place and leading the wild card? He'd rather stay in Texas and pitch for a last place team?

 

(And I am sipping something good - Kona Brewing Company's Wailua Wheat. Brewed with tropical passionfruit. Highly recommend.)

[MrTPlush]

You are sipping something good if you think Hamels was going to waive his no-trade clause to come here. Worthless argument going on here.

Why would Hamels not have wanted to go to a team 1.5 games out of first place and leading the wild card? He'd rather stay in Texas and pitch for a last place team?

 

(And I am sipping something good - Kona Brewing Company's Wailua Wheat. Brewed with tropical passionfruit. Highly recommend.)

 

Players with no-trade clauses are usually well aware of who is going after them and their options. Like most players Cubs over Brewers is probably pretty simple. It’s also possible a team like the Rangers didn’t even want to screw around dealing with Hamels waiving his no-trade clause...because as we know that isn’t a simple process.

[Thurston Fluff]

Actually he isn't a free agent after this year. The Cubs have a $20M option for him next year or a $4M buyout. But I think you miss what I am talking about in re Big Market teams. The Cubs gave Chatwood a $39M contract for 3 years and when he consistently failed to do the job, they got Hamels and put Chatwood in the back of the bullpen. A small market team couldn't afford to do that.

The Rangers are covering the $4 million if the Cubs turn down the option, it's on the Cubs if they exercise the $20 million. The Brewers could've afforded to do that for this year and I'd guess the option wouldn't be picked up. And it's not just Hamels, if you don't get him go get Happ, Guasman, etc. It's ridiculous we didn't add a SP in some capacity.

 

The reason the Cubs had to get Hamels now is because they spent so much acquiring other players in the past they didn't have a farm to draw from. Barring injuries, in season trades are a sign of a mistakes made in the past IMHO.

[xisxisxis]

Theo > Stearns

Blasphemer!!!!! Stone him!!!!!

[LouisEly]

Players with no-trade clauses are usually well aware of who is going after them and their options. Like most players Cubs over Brewers is probably pretty simple. It’s also possible a team like the Rangers didn’t even want to screw around dealing with Hamels waiving his no-trade clause...because as we know that isn’t a simple process.

Except that the Cubs were not on his no-trade list, so the Rangers didn't have to ask him, and Hamels said earlier this year that he didn't have any specific objections going to a contender:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/05/al-west-notes-hamels-wood-ohtani-mccann-chapman.html

[MrTPlush]

Players with no-trade clauses are usually well aware of who is going after them and their options. Like most players Cubs over Brewers is probably pretty simple. It’s also possible a team like the Rangers didn’t even want to screw around dealing with Hamels waiving his no-trade clause...because as we know that isn’t a simple process.

Except that the Cubs were not on his no-trade list, so the Rangers didn't have to ask him, and Hamels said earlier this year that he didn't have any specific objections going to a contender:

 

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018/05/al-west-notes-hamels-wood-ohtani-mccann-chapman.html

 

Your first sentence...exactly.

 

But once again...Cubs vs. Brewers...where do you think he wanted to go?

[adambr2]

Theo > Stearns

 

So to review:

 

- Theo trades arguably the top prospect in baseball plus for Jose Quintana, gets a highly mediocre 4.46 ERA and 4.85 FIP.

 

- Stearns signs Jhoulys Chacin for 2 years/$15.5M. Gets one of the best free agent starters of the 2017-18 class. Highly effective #2/#3 type results.

 

- Theo gives Tyler Chatwood almost 40M over 3 years. Utter disaster. Can't hold his spot in the rotation. More walks than K's, makes Freddy Peralta look like a control pitcher.

 

- Stearns signs Wade Miley for basically nothing. Injured until summer, but when he comes up, first 8 starts are better results wise than anyone could have imagined, ERA just north of 2.

 

- Theo gives Yu Darvish a massive 6 year 9 figure deal. Injured and effective so far.

 

- Theo trades for Hamels. Great thru 4 starts.

 

So yay Theo, boo Stearns for all that? Man, tough crowd for David.

[xisxisxis]

Adam, you missed a ton of seasons of Theo moves, but yeah I guess that axe you got is really dull... Grind on...