Cubs Acquire Cole Hamels from Rangers

[KeithStone53151]

Everybody loves the "what have you done for me lately" stats.

 

Same reason Brewer fans didn't want a "veteran" like Verlander last season.

 

Just throw out Verlander and Hamels track record of success out the window.

 

Should we go trade for Curtis Granderson and his track record of success? Or go sign Garza? Hamels is not the same pitcher he was even 2 years ago. Hamels is sporting the highest line drive rate and highest hard hit rate of his career. Maybe he gets revitalized by moving to a contender, it's a real concern. But you don't just go get name guys for the sake of getting name guys. There's a much higher chance that Hamels is washed up and posting a 5+ ERA down the stretch than of him posting a sub 3 ERA.

[travisteck]

Everybody loves the "what have you done for me lately" stats.

 

Same reason Brewer fans didn't want a "veteran" like Verlander last season.

 

Just throw out Verlander and Hamels track record of success out the window.

 

Why are you so insistent on adding a vet, let alone Hamels? Trying to compare Verlander to Hamels isn't going to end up well. Hamels had a Meh 17, and has been having an awful 18. He hasn't been good since 2016.

 

Verlander was having an OK 17, then lights out when he got traded, and has been this year as well.

 

He was also an August 31 trade vs a deadline guy, on a team that had the best positional player roster in baseball at the time.

 

I'm fine giving up prospects for rentals, if they're good. I don't understand adding a vet just so we can say we have one. He wouldn't be starting a playoff game for us.

[cesser000]

Same reason Brewer fans didn't want a "veteran" like Verlander last season.

 

Just throw out Verlander and Hamels track record of success out the window.

 

Why are you so insistent on adding a vet, let alone Hamels? I don't understand adding a vet just so we can say we have one. He wouldn't be starting a playoff game for us.

Maybe this is Doug Melvin's brewerfan.net handle?

[StearnsFTW]

Everybody loves the "what have you done for me lately" stats.

 

Same reason Brewer fans didn't want a "veteran" like Verlander last season.

 

Just throw out Verlander and Hamels track record of success out the window.

 

 

Verlander had significantly better career numbers than Hamels at the time they were traded.

 

Not to mention that Verlander was miles better in the season in which they were traded.

 

It's a truly terrible comparison.

[PinaMadness]

If it was 10 years ago I'd be worried.

[Ennder]

That is 4 lefties in the Cubs rotation now! That can cause some weird things to happen.

[pacopete4]

That is 4 lefties in the Cubs rotation now! That can cause some weird things to happen.

 

Braun is happy.

[lowblow]

Hamels is a lottery ticket for the Cubs (an expensive lottery ticket certainly), but one that big market teams can buy and small market teams are reluctant to try. The downside of $5 million wasted by the Cubs is virtually insignificant. The Cub's new TV contract that you will start to hear about this offseason will probably add upwards of $60 million per year to the Cub's revenue.

 

Say it's a 10% chance that Hamels gives the Cubs four or five quality starts the rest of the way and say there's a 45% chance that he pitches to a 4.00 ERA but eats innings and a 45% chance that he's even worse than Chatwood is now. It's still a good bet for them, because there is no real cost.....and Hamels is a pitcher who has pitched in big games and won't be flustered by it.

 

Stearns can't make that bet, because the cost of being wrong is too high. Moreover, recently winning a World Series provides the Cub's front office a lot of leeway with their fans. Should Hamels fail miserably, most Cubs fans will just shrug. Big Market teams have the latitude to make mistakes that small market teams don't.

[BlazingGunz]

Strange that we acquired another lefty hitter too....going to be interesting against LH pitching, and the Cubs have more of it

[Ennder]

Ok just please stop talking about big market vs small market, that has nothing at all to do with this. The Brewers could have easily taken on $5M in costs on the year and they wouldn't have batted an eye over it.

 

Furthermore large market teams can't take on endless salary like people seem to think they can. The Angels have a number of bad contracts that have hamstrung their ability to compete. The Red Sox and Yankees have both avoided big deals because they don't want to go over the payroll caps that so heavily penalize them. If money has been a big factor this offseason it has hurt the large market team more than the small market.

[Thurston Fluff]

They have just hidden the fact by being super amazing at coming back late which it seems like they are doing every single night lately.

 

Team______RS____RA___Diff

Brewers___457___413___44

Cubs______518___415__103

 

A simple look at run differential shows there's nothing lucky about the fact the Cubs are ahead of us... In fact, you could argue with their run differential they are unlucky... And as much as the narrative on BF.net that the Brewers bullpen is lights out and the Cubs SP is worse than the Brewers, both teams are very close in number of runs allowed (within 15 once the 3 GP difference is taken into account)...

 

If you wanted to improve your run differential do you think adding Hamels or adding Moustakas would help more?

[timpep]

The Cubs basically paid $5M and no real prospects to add a veteran like Cole Hamels to their rotation for the rest of this season.

 

With the injuries to Suter and Davies and no sign of Nelson contributing this season, I thought that adding a veteran like Hamels to our staff would have been well worth paying that price for the Brewers.

 

Who's spot does Hamels take without making the team worse? Guerra, Anderson, Chacin and Peralta are clearly having better success this year. Davies is probably better when he returns, and if not Woodruff is. Even Burnes to the rotation and a aaaa call up to be long man would be better.

[JohnBriggs12]

The Cubs basically paid $5M and no real prospects to add a veteran like Cole Hamels to their rotation for the rest of this season.

 

With the injuries to Suter and Davies and no sign of Nelson contributing this season, I thought that adding a veteran like Hamels to our staff would have been well worth paying that price for the Brewers.

 

Who's spot does Hamels take without making the team worse? Guerra, Anderson, Chacin and Peralta are clearly having better success this year. Davies is probably better when he returns, and if not Woodruff is. Even Burnes to the rotation and a aaaa call up to be long man would be better.

 

Adding just any veteran would have been a mistake. Hamels has worn down as the season progressed. He may get a jolt and be fine for a few starts, but the Cubs are fooling themselves into thinking they are getting a younger version of Hamels.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Not sure if this was already added to this thread earlier, but the Cubs gave away Eddie Butler, Rollie Lacy, and a PTBNL for Hamels + $ from TX to try and offset his remaining contract this year to avoid the Cubs going over the luxury tax limit...I'm not sure why Butler wouldn't have been the headliner in this trade right when it was announced. He's definitely a non-prospect, since he has multiple years of MLB service time, but he's a former 1st round pick with some starting experience that seemed to have benefited getting away from Coors Field. He's probably the Cubs' equivalent of between Suter and Woodruff...

[jjfanec]

The Cubs had to go get a below average hamels to make up for their free agent mistake in Chatwood. That is fun. There other free agent pitcher has been on the DL most of the year. Nice to.see Theo does make mistakes

[Ennder]

I'm not completely sold on Hamels being below average back in the NL with a good defense behind him. It is still nice to see that they have done nothing but make bad moves since winning the World Series. People get on me when I say this but the Cubs looked like the next big dynasty a few years back and now they look like a team that is just a playoff team hoping to luck into more with very little to trade for what they need. They have a lot of good controllable talent but the team just doesn't seem special the way the Astros do at this point.

[Thurston Fluff]

I'm not completely sold on Hamels being below average back in the NL with a good defense behind him. It is still nice to see that they have done nothing but make bad moves since winning the World Series. People get on me when I say this but the Cubs looked like the next big dynasty a few years back and now they look like a team that is just a playoff team hoping to luck into more with very little to trade for what they need. They have a lot of good controllable talent but the team just doesn't seem special the way the Astros do at this point.

 

That depends on how you define a lot of controllable talent. The problem with a weakened farm system, outside of the inability to trade for better major league talent, is the functional major league roster is limited to what is already there. The Brewers can option good players up and down as needed and have used that to great effect. The Cubs have a lot of talent on the 25 man roster but have limited options beyond that to help in tough stretches.

[adambr2]

I'm not completely sold on Hamels being below average back in the NL with a good defense behind him. It is still nice to see that they have done nothing but make bad moves since winning the World Series. People get on me when I say this but the Cubs looked like the next big dynasty a few years back and now they look like a team that is just a playoff team hoping to luck into more with very little to trade for what they need. They have a lot of good controllable talent but the team just doesn't seem special the way the Astros do at this point.

 

That'll happen when you do things like trade potential superstars like Glebyer Torres for a short term reliever rental.

 

I get that they were under enormous pressure to win it all, 108 years will do that to you, but I'm pretty convinced their drought would have ended anyway. They were built to last and they kind of sacrificed all that to go all in for 2 years.

[LouisEly]

They might have seen the pitching window closing - Lackey on his last legs, Lester approaching mid-30's, Arrieta an impending free agent, and no pitching prospects in the upper levels to replace them - and went for it. They can spend in free agency, but there is no guarantee that players will sign with them as they are competing with a number of other teams for free agents (NYY, BOS, LAD, LAA, WAS, ATL, SFG, STL, etc.)

 

We lament the historical lack of drafted/developed pitching for the Brewers, but the Cubs are arguably worse in that department - I believe the only pitcher on their current roster or 2016 World Series team who they drafted was Rob Zastryzny.

[Ennder]

Well don't get me wrong here, I don't blame the Cubs for what they did. I have just been saying for 2 years now that the Cubs are no longer the super team they looked like and I have caught a ton of flack for it. They are a top tier team competing with other top tier teams in the NL but they are not a stand out at this point.

[xisxisxis]

They take on 10 million dollars, so they likely give up scraps in return prospect wise.

 

MLBTradeRumors is reporting the Cubs are only assuming $4M of the $14M owed to Hamels...

 

Second year in a row the Cubs add a SP at the trade deadline and the Brewers add RP... Worked well in 2017...

 

 

for the CUBS!

I'll reply to my own post... Hamels lines so far pitching for the cubs:

 

Date____Opp__IP_H_R_ER_BB_K_HR_ERA__WHIP__BAA

Aug-12__WAS__7__1_1__1__1_9__0_1.00_0.83_.177

Aug-6___@KC__6__7_1__1__1_2__0_0.82_1.18_.244

Aug-1__@PIT__5__3_1__0__2_9__0_0.00_1.00_.176

 

He's up @PIT today helping the Cubs put the Brewers farther and farther in their rear view mirror...

[bill hAll Star]

They take on 10 million dollars, so they likely give up scraps in return prospect wise.

 

MLBTradeRumors is reporting the Cubs are only assuming $4M of the $14M owed to Hamels...

 

Second year in a row the Cubs add a SP at the trade deadline and the Brewers add RP... Worked well in 2017...

 

 

for the CUBS!

I'll reply to my own post... Hamels lines so far pitching for the cubs:

 

Date____Opp__IP_H_R_ER_BB_K_HR_ERA__WHIP__BAA

Aug-12__WAS__7__1_1__1__1_9__0_1.00_0.83_.177

Aug-6___@KC__6__7_1__1__1_2__0_0.82_1.18_.244

Aug-1__@PIT__5__3_1__0__2_9__0_0.00_1.00_.176

 

He's up @PIT today helping the Cubs put the Brewers farther and farther in their rear view mirror...

 

OK, here's the thing. I'll give them credit (so far) on the Hamels thing. He's faced the putrid Royals offense and he's faced some offenses that are better against RHP (Pirates, Nats with Dickerson, Polanco, Harper, Murphy, etc.) but so far he's been a nice addition. It's something that carried some risk but the Cubs were in the right place for.

 

However, I find it hilarious that A. the Brewers could've trumped Eloy/Cease and B. that you are calling that a win for the Cubs without context. Unfortunately it's not all a 1-year race discussed in a vacuum here.

 

The Brewers probably still lose the division to the Cubs last year with Quintana and they probably don't have Hiura and Hader in their system or team right now. So...

[xisxisxis]

However, I find it hilarious that A. the Brewers could've trumped Eloy/Cease and B. that you are calling that a win for the Cubs without context. Unfortunately it's not all a 1-year race discussed in a vacuum here.

 

I never advocated outbidding for Quintana as I didn't think he was as good as the bill... He is in 2018 what he was for the White Sox in 2017... pretty much crap, but he performed very well in 2017 for the Cubs, somewhat like CC in 2008, which is lauded here as the greatest move in the history of baseball, but the Cubs, oh 'they be stoopid'...

 

Hamels has a long history of being a very good pitcher... His home/away splits were typical of the impact of arlington Park, but everyone here thought we are the great brewers, we don't need that has-been... We got a whole butt load of #5 starters so we're fine... The other mind boggling thing about brewerfan.net is the sheer joy of picking someone out of the dumpster and saying "oh DJ will fix him he's the best PC ever...", yet when a vet like Hamels comes along who could benefit from the greatest pitching coach in the Universe, "nope, he's crap, good thing we didn't take him on, LOL...". Yep, only 3 games, but way better than what we've thrown out their and almost as good as Gausman's start against the ****** Brewers offense (see I can discount pitchers performance too...)

 

The poor Brewers performance lately is a smoke and mirrors SP regressing to what they really are and we are out of options to improve the rotation, yet good teams keep adding pitching... Yippeee it's great to be a brewer fan....

[bill hAll Star]

However, I find it hilarious that A. the Brewers could've trumped Eloy/Cease and B. that you are calling that a win for the Cubs without context. Unfortunately it's not all a 1-year race discussed in a vacuum here.

 

I never advocated outbidding for Quintana as I didn't think he was as good as the bill... He is in 2018 what he was for the White Sox in 2017... pretty much crap, but he performed very well in 2017 for the Cubs, somewhat like CC in 2008, which is lauded here as the greatest move in the history of baseball, but the Cubs, oh 'they be stoopid'...

 

84 innings of 3.74 ERA/3.25 FIP? That's nice contribution but that's not CC 2008-esque.

 

I am on the side of understanding why the Cubs did it even if it was somewhat stupid long-term. 4 years of control on Quintana was pretty good and they have the payroll to fill in holes left by Eloy and Cease. The Brewers may not have that luxury.

 

Hamels has a long history of being a very good pitcher... His home/away splits were typical of the impact of arlington Park, but everyone here thought we are the great brewers, we don't need that has-been... We got a whole butt load of #5 starters so we're fine... The other mind boggling thing about brewerfan.net is the sheer joy of picking someone out of the dumpster and saying "oh DJ will fix him he's the best PC ever...", yet when a vet like Hamels comes along who could benefit from the greatest pitching coach in the Universe, "nope, he's crap, good thing we didn't take him on, LOL...". Yep, only 3 games, but way better than what we've thrown out their and almost as good as Gausman's start against the ****** Brewers offense (see I can discount pitchers performance too...)

 

The poor Brewers performance lately is a smoke and mirrors SP regressing to what they really are and we are out of options to improve the rotation, yet good teams keep adding pitching... Yippeee it's great to be a brewer fan....

 

I'd have been fine with getting Hamels. It was a nice move for the Cubs. My only contribution was rebutting the "we need a guy with playoff experience like Hamels" type of banter.

 

Alas, we didn't get him. It has only been 3 games for the Cubs so far though so let's let this play out a little bit.

 

And again, all teams dumpster dive a lot. We think the Brewers are doing it because we are bombarded with the news today with social media and more access to the team. All teams bring in guys like Jake Thompson. This is nothing new or specific to the Brewers.

 

The Cubs grabbed Jesse Chavez, Jorge De La Rosa, Luke Ferrell, and just recently gave up on Eddie Butler. All of those guys were dumpster dive reclamation projects. Heck, even Hamels and Chatwood were in some way (trying to play up the H/R splits angle). There are probably several other guys on the Cubs 40 man right now that are the "he was once a prized prospect" level that I am not aware about but I'm just looking at the names I recognize.

[xisxisxis]

And again, all teams dumpster dive a lot.

I ain't agin it and I think Stearns has done an excellent job (give a raise to whomever holds his ankles!)....

 

Why can't we at least pass the dumpster once in awhile and shop at friggin Goodwill...

 

I am just tired of other teams getting richer for $5M on a cole Hamels deal or Wilson Ramos for change...

 

Gausman (whom I am not all that fond of) was basically a salary dump by taking on Day's salary...

 

And save the small market economics/payrol for the Mark Attanasio sycophants club... The owners of this team are yearly taking home HUGE profits and while they give a lot of lip service about adding payroll when needed, how come it's NEVER needed!???! We couldn't afford the flyer on Hamels or Ramos? No? Of course I'll be lectured that we have no idea they wanted what Stearns offered! Yep, we don't, we only have an extremely reasonable deal that we couldn't match... AGAIN... And AGAIN... AND AGAIN...