Joakim Soria to the Brewers, Medeiros and Perez (not Hernan) to White Sox

[clancyphile]

Are they willing to go to arbitration with both Santana and Villar? I doubt it. They couldn't move Santana when he was making near minimum. Villar already has negative value.

 

Santana may well be non-tendered or there will be something worked out - maybe a DSL lottery ticket or two if DS gets lucky.

 

Villar... he's still relatively young, has position versatility, and switch-hits. If the Brewers are keeping a lot of pitchers, he will probably be around as a replacement for or supplement to Hernan Perez. Right now, I see him worth a couple of lottery tickets as well.

[anglotiger]

As much as I don't like the trade, it will be nice having another really strong option in the bullpen. There won't be days where Jeffress/Hader/Knebel were all used 2 of the last 3 days and are mostly unavailable...so we throw out Drake/Logan/yuck pitchers and it costs us games. We should be able to nail down games that we get leads in the first 5-6 innings at a very high clip going forward. And maybe this acquisition revitalizes some of the guys.

 

Ditto on not liking the trade for a variety of reasons, but losing games when they've lead after 6 innings has not been a problem for this team. And there are going to be days where you are getting blown out and it's just fine to use Drake/Logan/etc. I just think there was zero need to get fatter in the bullpen right now. They need an impact bat or two and a SP that can project as somewhere between ACE and #3. If they go out and get a Ray Durham type, I'll lose my mind. As fun as trading is, I wish they would have just stood pat with their resources this year. They really failed to capitalize on their start for the 2nd year in a row and make a move in early July to push the envelope, a la Sabathia. Instead, they sat on their hands and allowed a horrible losing streak, more than likely, cause a repeat of 2017 and a complete miss of the playoffs. I've read this novel too many times as a Brewers fan. I'll be shocked if they get an impact bat and a worthy SP to go along with Soria. If they don't, I don't see the point in Soria.

 

I think that we all agree that this team is heavily dependent on that bullpen right now. The cost of an upgrade in the rotation may be prohibitive, so that dependency may very well continue for the remainder of the season. It's easy to say "losing games when they've lead after 6 innings has not been a problem for this team", but if (for instance) Hader gets an injury, this quality depth in the bullpen (that you consider a luxury) would suddenly look like a really great thing to have...

[markedman5]

[liveforoctober]

Per Ken Rosenthal:

 

"Seven teams showed up to scout the Brewers' double-A team this week! All sellers:

 

#Mets, #Rangers, #WhiteSox, #Royals, #Reds, #Marlins, #Tigers.

 

Do not file this under "normal coverage."

 

Too many guys in AA that could be a part of many types of trade scenarios to speculate ... but for those saying "if we only get Soria and stand pat otherwise ... it is a waste" ... I think we can largely assume the Soria trade will not be our only move.

[DHonks]

I was weary of the Khris Davis trade. I initially despised the Parra trade until he outperformed expectations. This trade may haunt us for years to come...on paper it look brutal.

[wildcat2237]

I was weary of the Khris Davis trade. I initially despised the Parra trade until he outperformed expectations. This trade may haunt us for years to come...on paper it look brutal.

 

This is basically my take on the trade. Very high upside PITCHER for an old expensive reliever who may be a 10 week rental......yuuuuuuuuck.

[xisxisxis]

So now we can lose more games 1-0 instead of 2-0... We still need HELP for our dysfunctional offense...

[MrTPlush]

Are they willing to go to arbitration with both Santana and Villar? I doubt it. They couldn't move Santana when he was making near minimum. Villar already has negative value.

 

Santana may well be non-tendered or there will be something worked out - maybe a DSL lottery ticket or two if DS gets lucky.

 

Villar... he's still relatively young, has position versatility, and switch-hits. If the Brewers are keeping a lot of pitchers, he will probably be around as a replacement for or supplement to Hernan Perez. Right now, I see him worth a couple of lottery tickets as well.

 

No chance Santana is non-tendered...none.

 

Villar barring a turnaround is likely going to find himself non-tendered.

[Eye Black]

Per Ken Rosenthal:

 

"Seven teams showed up to scout the Brewers' double-A team this week! All sellers:

 

#Mets, #Rangers, #WhiteSox, #Royals, #Reds, #Marlins, #Tigers.

 

Do not file this under "normal coverage."

 

Too many guys in AA that could be a part of many types of trade scenarios to speculate ... but for those saying "if we only get Soria and stand pat otherwise ... it is a waste" ... I think we can largely assume the Soria trade will not be our only move.

 

Off the top of my head I have seen speculation of the following players being "available" from those teams...

 

Mets = Cabrera, Wheeler, deGrom, Thor (DL)

Rangers = Hamels, Keone Kela

White Sox = Soria (traded to Brewers)

Royals = Merrifield, Duffy

Reds = Harvey, Scooter, Iglesias

Marlins = Realmuto, Castro, Dietrich, Barraclough, Steckenrider, Adam Conley

Tigers = Zimmermann, Fiers, Iglesias, Greene, Fulmer (DL), Castellanos

 

Who are some other potentially available players I am missing from those teams?

[SRB]

I was weary of the Khris Davis trade. I initially despised the Parra trade until he outperformed expectations. This trade may haunt us for years to come...on paper it look brutal.

 

This is basically my take on the trade. Very high upside PITCHER for an old expensive reliever who may be a 10 week rental......yuuuuuuuuck.

 

Correction: Mid-tier pitching prospect who we would probably lose for nothing otherwise, for one of the best relievers in baseball.

[lcbj68c]

 

You are calling the season over on July 26th when we are leading the wild card standings and 2.5 games out of 1st in the division with the 3rd best overall record in the National League?

 

I mean, predictions and opinions are your right .... but that is pretty pessimistic, no?

 

Absolutely pessimistic. Not calling the season over, but Soria alone doesn't get more wins than they would have minus Soria, in my opinion. Called the same predictions last season around July 26th. I just feel like this is a .475 club living on borrowed time. I hate feeling that way, but :shrugs:

[liveforoctober]

I was weary of the Khris Davis trade. I initially despised the Parra trade until he outperformed expectations. This trade may haunt us for years to come...on paper it look brutal.

 

Portland drafting Sam Bowie ahead of Jordan is something that haunts a franchise. Portland drafting Oden ahead of Durant is something that haunts a franchise. The Packers drafting Mandarich ahead of Barry, Deion, and Derrick Thomas is something that haunts a franchise.

 

The Brewers trading Kodi Medeiros for Joakim Soria is not going to haunt our franchise. Promise. You can not like the trade ... but let's keep it in perspective here.

[cesser000]

 

You are calling the season over on July 26th when we are leading the wild card standings and 2.5 games out of 1st in the division with the 3rd best overall record in the National League?

 

I mean, predictions and opinions are your right .... but that is pretty pessimistic, no?

 

Absolutely pessimistic. Not calling the season over, but Soria alone doesn't get more wins than they would have minus Soria, in my opinion. Called the same predictions last season around July 26th. I just feel like this is a .475 club living on borrowed time. I hate feeling that way, but :shrugs:

They've still got 5 days to make more deals, and according to all reports, they are seeking to do so. Let's see what they can do before Tuesday - things ain't over yet, not by a longshot.

[MrTPlush]

So now we can lose more games 1-0 instead of 2-0... We still need HELP for our dysfunctional offense...

 

You get the help as it becomes available...not by need. The deadline didn’t pass yet.

[lcbj68c]

I was weary of the Khris Davis trade. I initially despised the Parra trade until he outperformed expectations. This trade may haunt us for years to come...on paper it look brutal.

 

Portland drafting Sam Bowie ahead of Jordan is something that haunts a franchise. Portland drafting Oden ahead of Durant is something that haunts a franchise. The Packers drafting Mandarich ahead of Barry, Deion, and Derrick Thomas is something that haunts a franchise.

 

The Brewers trading Kodi Medeiros for Joakim Soria is not going to haunt our franchise. Promise. You can not like the trade ... but let's keep it in perspective here.

 

Spot on! I don't hate the trade really. Medeiros won't keep me up at night. I just think they got their irons in the wrong fire right now.

[liveforoctober]

I was weary of the Khris Davis trade. I initially despised the Parra trade until he outperformed expectations. This trade may haunt us for years to come...on paper it look brutal.

 

Portland drafting Sam Bowie ahead of Jordan is something that haunts a franchise. Portland drafting Oden ahead of Durant is something that haunts a franchise. The Packers drafting Mandarich ahead of Barry, Deion, and Derrick Thomas is something that haunts a franchise.

 

The Brewers trading Kodi Medeiros for Joakim Soria is not going to haunt our franchise. Promise. You can not like the trade ... but let's keep it in perspective here.

 

Spot on! I don't hate the trade really. Medeiros won't keep me up at night. I just think they got their irons in the wrong fire right now.

 

I really have no opinion on the trade yet. Need a day to digest it. I liked Kodi. I also don't anticipate this is the only deal we are getting from Stearns. My guess is we get a 2B here shortly ... then we try for a big name starter and dont succeed so we end up with a 2nd tier guy last minute.

 

I will like or shrug at this trade much more once I see what else is done before the deadline hits. If this is a deal amongst other deals that make us truly competitive ... I am leaning towards liking it. Our bullpen is legit and we have a pretty serious 40 man crunch this off season. If we strike out in the next few days and this is about all we do... I'm not nearly as happy. All about perspective!

[superfly]

I was weary of the Khris Davis trade. I initially despised the Parra trade until he outperformed expectations. This trade may haunt us for years to come...on paper it look brutal.

 

This is basically my take on the trade. Very high upside PITCHER for an old expensive reliever who may be a 10 week rental......yuuuuuuuuck.

 

Correction: Mid-tier pitching prospect who we would probably lose for nothing otherwise, for one of the best relievers in baseball.

 

"Haunting." We could trade Wilbur Perez only for Soria and there are still folks that will scream horrible idea.

 

Khris Davis is exactly what Domingo Santana is or was in terms of value. Dime a dozen outfielders with some pop and no defense. Were lucky we even found a taker.

[Thurston Fluff]

 

You are calling the season over on July 26th when we are leading the wild card standings and 2.5 games out of 1st in the division with the 3rd best overall record in the National League?

 

I mean, predictions and opinions are your right .... but that is pretty pessimistic, no?

 

Absolutely pessimistic. Not calling the season over, but Soria alone doesn't get more wins than they would have minus Soria, in my opinion. Called the same predictions last season around July 26th. I just feel like this is a .475 club living on borrowed time. I hate feeling that way, but :shrugs:

 

You have a right to any feeling you want but no team goes a 1 1/2 years above .500 ball with .475 talent. There is pessimism then there is hyperbole. I think you may have crossed into the latter. Soria alone won't win us more games but no player alone does that. What he does is allow Counsell to use his bullpen early and often every day instead of two out of three days. That should account for at least that one win you think he can't get us.

[bork]

Are they willing to go to arbitration with both Santana and Villar? I doubt it. They couldn't move Santana when he was making near minimum. Villar already has negative value.

 

Santana may well be non-tendered or there will be something worked out - maybe a DSL lottery ticket or two if DS gets lucky.

 

Villar... he's still relatively young, has position versatility, and switch-hits. If the Brewers are keeping a lot of pitchers, he will probably be around as a replacement for or supplement to Hernan Perez. Right now, I see him worth a couple of lottery tickets as well.

 

No chance Santana is non-tendered...none.

 

Villar barring a turnaround is likely going to find himself non-tendered.

 

Santana may not enough service time to reach arbitration if he stays in the minors for the rest of the year. But him and Broxton will be out of options when the final cuts of spring are made.

[Oxy]

I highly doubt the Brewers pick up the $11M option. That's way too steep to commit to at the beginning of the FA cycle.

 

At the same time, if next April rolls around and we have a thin bullpen and lots of budget space it wouldn't be a crippling contract by any means. It doesn't look like we'll have room in the budget though--and we have to decide in November, not April.

[StearnsFTW]

Pretty good deal. I liked it a lot more when I thought it was a team option.

 

Medeiros doesn't cause me any lost sleep. He may work out, he probably won't. I know Soria helps.

[JosephC]

I'll reserve judgement on this one until the rest of the moves (and hopefully there will be a couple more) are made. I really like Soria as a player, and think he's a great pickup if the Brewers have doubts about Knebel for the rest of this year. That is not meant to be any sort of commentary on Knebel in 2019 and beyond. I also don't mind them trading Medeiros away. He's been good for a 6-8 weeks recently, but hadn't really been much of a performer before that. Absolutely a chance that he has turned the corner and will be a solid MLB player. But I'd tend to fall back on the larger sample size, and when doing that Medeiros is a 4.69 ERA, 1.46 WHIP as a professional. And even with his recent success, there are some numbers in his 2018 stat line which are a real cause for concern. 45 walks and 12 hit batsmen in 103 1/3 innings pitched. Those are terrible numbers. I don't think it's unreasonable to add hit batsmen into WHIP because that's a baserunner just like a walk is. Add those 12 hit batsmen in and the season WHIP goes up to 1.42. Maybe Stearns just sold Medeiros at exactly the right time?

 

All that said, I will hate this move if Stearns ends up not being able to get any more deals done. There is always room for another good reliever, but the bullpen hasn't been near the biggest problem for this team. If the Brewers miss the playoffs, it will be because of the problems at the bottom of the lineup. Hopefully Cabrera or Dozier will follow shortly. Otherwise it will just seem like the Brewers threw more resources into an area which isn't a major problem and are just willing to ride with guys like Hernan Perez and Erik Kratz getting regular at-bats which clearly is a problem.

 

I also don't think Soria's option year will get picked up by the Brewers. Just taking a quick glance and guesses at arbitration raises, I would estimate they will be sitting at about 90 million pre-Soria. So he would put them at 100 million and history shows that Attanasio isn't likely to go that much higher than that. The fact that the White Sox included cash in the deal that is basically the same amount of the buyout is a pretty good indicator the Brewer's aren't planning on picking up their part of the option.

[LouisEly]

I get that Soria is a great reliever, and perhaps this makes Counsell feel more comfortable pitching Hader/Jeffress in close games when they are losing by a run or two which maybe helps them win a few more games, but I'm a bit higher on Medeiros than most because he's 2.4 years younger than league average at AA and pitching arguably better than Ortiz. Count me in the camp of not worth it for 1.3 years of Soria, sure as hell not worth it for 0.3 years of Soria.

[Eye Black]

Adam McCalvy tweet from tonight...

 

Doubt this will surprise anyone, but Craig Counsell said Joakim Soria won’t be “the closer.” Corey Knebel has filled that role.

 

 

I have a feeling that even if Knebel proves to be clearly just the 4th or 5th best reliever in this bullpen he is going to get a lot of opportunities to be forced into the “closer” role. I really wish they could get away from the concept of needing a specific closer.

[adambr2]

Adam McCalvy tweet from tonight...

 

Doubt this will surprise anyone, but Craig Counsell said Joakim Soria won’t be “the closer.” Corey Knebel has filled that role.

 

 

I have a feeling that even if Knebel proves to be clearly just the 4th or 5th best reliever in this bullpen he is going to get a lot of opportunities to be forced into the “closer” role. I really wish they could get away from the concept of needing a specific closer.

 

Preaching to the choir. Counsell is going to die on the "Knebel is the closer" hill which seems odd because he has shown the ability to manage the pen creatively.