Joakim Soria to the Brewers, Medeiros and Perez (not Hernan) to White Sox

[TooLiveBrew]

Adam McCalvy tweet from tonight...

 

Doubt this will surprise anyone, but Craig Counsell said Joakim Soria won’t be “the closer.” Corey Knebel has filled that role.

 

 

I have a feeling that even if Knebel proves to be clearly just the 4th or 5th best reliever in this bullpen he is going to get a lot of opportunities to be forced into the “closer” role. I really wish they could get away from the concept of needing a specific closer.

 

Preaching to the choir. Counsell is going to die on the "Knebel is the closer" hill which seems odd because he has shown the ability to manage the pen creatively.

Counsell doesn't have to commit to anything at this point, but I don't believe it's a coincidence that the reliever Stearns wound up adding is one who is very familiar with & has had a lot of success in the closer role. Knebel hasn't been very consistent this year.

 

But I think the more prudent move, as Counsell, is to back Knebel at this time. And hope he regains his mojo. If he does, you have Soria as a lockdown fireman to stack in addition to Jeffress & Hader. If Knebel struggles, you have Soria to plug in as closer.

 

And yes, my ideal scenario would be to never manage based around the closer role, ever.

[rickh150]

1-year/$10 million is not "very expensive" for a backend RP these days

 

We gave almost half that to Boone Logan, and elite RP generally get paid by demanding multi-year deals (when RP are very volatile)

 

They should absolutely pick up Soria's option next year

 

Let's see how he does first.

Then let's not be surprised if we don't pick up his option.

[adambr2]

1-year/$10 million is not "very expensive" for a backend RP these days

 

We gave almost half that to Boone Logan, and elite RP generally get paid by demanding multi-year deals (when RP are very volatile)

 

They should absolutely pick up Soria's option next year

 

Let's see how he does first.

Then let's not be surprised if we don't pick up his option.

 

Again though, not a team option. Soria has to agree to it too.

[reillymcshane]

This is not a 10-week rental.

 

It's a 14-week rental.

 

The World Series goes though the end of October.

 

I liked Medeiros. Thought he was an interesting arm. At worst, he appears to have a future as a LOOGY, and there's nothing wrong with that. But a deal is done, Kodi is gone, and Soria is a Brewer. Let's just win games and move on.

[Tbadder]

I really can’t see Soria sticking around, so count me in the rental group that just hates rentals—give me years of Brantley and Cain instead. However they do have a severe 40 man problem next year so expect more Kodi types to be leaving soon. Although dumping TS and Villar et al will help.

[CheeseheadInQC]

I had reconciled myself to the fact that one of the AA starters was likely to be dealt, but I'd kind of assumed that it would be for a starter or middle infielder. I'm not thrilled about Medeiros for a likely rental reliever, but as others have said, if the Brewers viewed him as a reliever and maybe this was actually Soria + the ability to protect QTC for Medeiros, then it might make some sense. That being said, while they have enough pitching at AA and AAA to part with one of them and possibly two, I hope they don't deal any more than one more unless it is for a guy with a few years of control.

[brewcrewdue80]

If it's a mutual option, with 1mil buyout, wouldnt that mean Soria agrees and Brewers say no for 1mil. If Soria tests FA with his no, then Milw shouldnt be paying him 1mil.

 

As to the deal, I'm okay with it. Really wanted Kodi to make it on this team because he was a HS SP draft pick. Something I want to see more often. Love his insane slider. The caveat though was hes a rule 5 40man crunch. I think there will be too many to hang on to and this way we get some IP by Soria vs nothing (Miguel Diaz anyone?)

[TURBO]

I’m not sure why I keep reading on here the Medeiros is a bust but I think it’s completely wrong.

 

This complety!

 

FAR far from a bust.

 

Ridiculousness.

[Invader3K]

I'm very late to the thread, but I'll just say that overall, I like this trade. Our bullpen is doing great right now, but inevitably as the season goes along, one or two guys will get hurt or worn out. Soria is a veteran who apparently still has a lot of mileage left on his arm this season. His numbers since changing his delivery are phenomenal.

 

I really doubt the Brewers are going to pay a reliever $10 million next season. This trade was about making the playoffs this year. I get that some are sad to see Medeiros go, but seriously, our minor league system is stacked right now. Who knows if there would have even been room for him on the 40 man next season?

 

Also, I'm surprised Counsell is still talking about "the closer role." Hopefully that is just a generic MLB talking point type of answer. He's shown he can usually manage the bullpen effectively without worrying about "roles", so I hope that continues.

[Eye Black]

This is not a 10-week rental.

 

It's a 14-week rental.

 

The World Series goes though the end of October.

If the Brewers are indeed playing baseball through the end of October I’m guessing a big reason why will be the strength of the bullpen.

[Roderick]

Adam McCalvy tweet from tonight...

 

Doubt this will surprise anyone, but Craig Counsell said Joakim Soria won’t be “the closer.” Corey Knebel has filled that role.

 

 

I have a feeling that even if Knebel proves to be clearly just the 4th or 5th best reliever in this bullpen he is going to get a lot of opportunities to be forced into the “closer” role. I really wish they could get away from the concept of needing a specific closer.

 

Preaching to the choir. Counsell is going to die on the "Knebel is the closer" hill which seems odd because he has shown the ability to manage the pen creatively.

 

Its also odd to me because Knebel is in arby and the save counting stat is going to get him paid more. Whereas Soria and Jeffress will not get paid more just because they picked up some counting stats.

 

I assumed (hoped) Counsell would have said every night will be different with no "closer", at least that was what I was hoping for. At least last night he brought Jeffress in to face the meat of the order in the 8th (even though he didn't have a good night), and if it went to plan, then Knebel would have been facing the approx 6-8 batters in the 9th. I think Jeffress is pitching better at this point in the season, even though neither pitched well last night.

[coolhandluke121]

So now we can lose more games 1-0 instead of 2-0... We still need HELP for our dysfunctional offense...

 

Weak links in the pen have cost the Brewers some games too. And yes, that includes their so-called closer. Turn some of those into wins, which this should do, and you'd still have the best record in the NL.

 

I never understand the logic that says you should improve a weaker area instead of improving a strength and making it elite. Adding wins is adding wins.

 

I loved Kodi when he was drafted but I don't blame them for trading him. He hasn't gotten it done despite what I saw an awesome delivery that would be insanely hard to hit. It's like trading an athletic guy who just can't seem to get the hang of the craft of hitting. Tools don't count for much without production.

[TURBO]

Math is not my strong suit, so some of the experts on the site, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we have a 40 man crunch, remove one player, Kodi, then add another, Soria, doesn't that mean we are in the exact same situation pre trade?

 

I am a lot higher than most here on Kodi, I don't like the trade from the stand point that we NEED a bat or 3, we need a starting pitcher, or 2, and we jump in the reliever pool instead?

 

I realize that the odds of another deal or 2 following this one are pretty high, but if nothing else comes to life, I HATE this deall tremendously.

 

I'll pass final judgement after the deadline to see what else transpires, but individually, on a trade by trade basis, I really dislike this one.

[buckybrewer232]

I like CC, but this strict "Knebel is our closer" stand is not smart and the type of thing that drives me nuts with so many managers. I dislike the one conventional closer thing to begin with, but to die on that hill with Knebel right now does not make any sense.

 

With the Brewer's current pen, Knebel has the worst ERA and FIP, the highest HR allowed %, and the 2nd highest walk percentage. This is in 30 games too, so not exactly a real small sample size for a reliever.

 

At the very least, Knebel should be used in some non closer situations to see if he can get rolling a bit before continuing with him being your one, conventional closer. Honestly, right now he's gotta be considered, at best, your 4th best reliever.

[liveforoctober]

Math is not my strong suit, so some of the experts on the site, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we have a 40 man crunch, remove one player, Kodi, then add another, Soria, doesn't that mean we are in the exact same situation pre trade?

 

I am a lot higher than most here on Kodi, I don't like the trade from the stand point that we NEED a bat or 3, we need a starting pitcher, or 2, and we jump in the reliever pool instead?

 

I realize that the odds of another deal or 2 following this one are pretty high, but if nothing else comes to life, I HATE this deall tremendously.

 

I'll pass final judgement after the deadline to see what else transpires, but individually, on a trade by trade basis, I really dislike this one.

 

My assumption is we are not exercising the option on Soria and he gets his money elsewhere, so no to the 40 man question. I think Stearns is facing the position of either getting nothing for a few of the rule 5 guys ... or making deals to gain some value somewhere for his big league club. Bulking up the bullpen for a playoff run was offered up him and he cashed in.

 

I really do understand if people dont like this trade... but like you said, final evaluation will come from me after the deadline and then again after the season.

 

Go Crew!

[adambr2]

Math is not my strong suit, so some of the experts on the site, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we have a 40 man crunch, remove one player, Kodi, then add another, Soria, doesn't that mean we are in the exact same situation pre trade?

 

I am a lot higher than most here on Kodi, I don't like the trade from the stand point that we NEED a bat or 3, we need a starting pitcher, or 2, and we jump in the reliever pool instead?

 

I realize that the odds of another deal or 2 following this one are pretty high, but if nothing else comes to life, I HATE this deall tremendously.

 

I'll pass final judgement after the deadline to see what else transpires, but individually, on a trade by trade basis, I really dislike this one.

 

Assuming Soria is going to be a rental, which I'd say at least 75% chance he will be, in this case no, trading Medeiros does indeed free up a 40 spot in the offseason.

 

I think this trade might the ticket onto next year's roster for Quintin Torres-Costa, whereas otherwise he likely would not have made it. So if it helps, it may essentially be adding Soria now and Torres-Costa later for Medeiros + Perez might be the way they are looking at it.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong, I really have a hard time seeing Medeiros go. Just spitballing on what their thought process might be.

[OldHeidelberg]

It just really hurts letting top pitching prospects go for a rental relief pitcher, especially a former 1st round pick southpaw who just this year started to turn it around. The Brewers have struggled so much developing pitchers until recently, it feels like maybe our luck is changing there and Kodi's bounce back was one of the reasons I felt like that. I know his turn around is why they were able to get value but this seems like so much more than trading Ryan Cordell last year. But to be honest I am just still down on the team from the recent slump so more worried in the end they gave him away for nothing if we fail to make the playoffs, I will come around on this trade if they get hot again and at least make a run at things in September. Can't have too many good pitchers available in the bullpen and Medeiros wasn't going to help now.

[buckybrewer232]

Math is not my strong suit, so some of the experts on the site, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we have a 40 man crunch, remove one player, Kodi, then add another, Soria, doesn't that mean we are in the exact same situation pre trade?

 

I am a lot higher than most here on Kodi, I don't like the trade from the stand point that we NEED a bat or 3, we need a starting pitcher, or 2, and we jump in the reliever pool instead?

 

I realize that the odds of another deal or 2 following this one are pretty high, but if nothing else comes to life, I HATE this deall tremendously.

 

I'll pass final judgement after the deadline to see what else transpires, but individually, on a trade by trade basis, I really dislike this one.

 

Assuming Soria is going to be a rental, which I'd say at least 75% chance he will be, in this case no, trading Medeiros does indeed free up a 40 spot in the offseason.

 

I think this trade might the ticket onto next year's roster for Quintin Torres-Costa, whereas otherwise he likely would not have made it. So if it helps, it may essentially be adding Soria now and Torres-Costa later for Medeiros + Perez might be the way they are looking at it.

 

Not saying it's right or wrong, I really have a hard time seeing Medeiros go. Just spitballing on what their thought process might be.

 

I think it helps with the "40 man crunch" even if they keep Soria next year. I'm guessing the Brewers had ultimately decided Meideros was one of the guys that was going to be left off the 40 man. Coming to that conclusion and realizing there's a chance he could be taken in the rule 5 draft, they made the decision to move him.

 

It helps because it's one less guy to fret over when putting the 40 man together for next season. One less tough decision to make this offseason.

[A Swing and A Drive]

This 40 man roster crunch argument is a bit silly. I would think it's safe to assume that Stearns will be making more moves between now and Tuesday to deal away more prospects.

 

And if not, well...then acquiring Soria is a bit silly.

[Lathund]

Math is not my strong suit, so some of the experts on the site, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we have a 40 man crunch, remove one player, Kodi, then add another, Soria, doesn't that mean we are in the exact same situation pre trade?

 

In addition to what others said about potentially not exercising the option which would free up a slot, even keeping him in a way frees up a slot indirectly. As in it would be used on a player who would contribute to the major league club (I mean it's possible Kodi would've too, but also very possible he wouldn't). Spending a 40-man spot on someone who will be in the minors all year means you need another player in that position for the 25-man roster. Soria makes another reliever expendable, and in a way saves a spot that way.

[FVBrewerFan]

Math is not my strong suit, so some of the experts on the site, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we have a 40 man crunch, remove one player, Kodi, then add another, Soria, doesn't that mean we are in the exact same situation pre trade?

 

Concern is about 40 man next year, not this season. Since Soria could very well not be on the roster next year, it opens up a spot. Not saying that's the primary reason (or a reason at all) they made the trade, just pointing it out why people are bringing it up.

[buckybrewer232]

Math is not my strong suit, so some of the experts on the site, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we have a 40 man crunch, remove one player, Kodi, then add another, Soria, doesn't that mean we are in the exact same situation pre trade?

 

In addition to what others said about potentially not exercising the option which would free up a slot, even keeping him in a way frees up a slot indirectly. As in it would be used on a player who would contribute to the major league club (I mean it's possible Kodi would've too, but also very possible he wouldn't). Spending a 40-man spot on someone who will be in the minors all year means you need another player in that position for the 25-man roster. Soria makes another reliever expendable, and in a way saves a spot that way.

 

Correct. It's quite a long shot that Kodi would be a possible contributor on a contending major league team next year, which makes him a tough guy to stash on the 40 man roster especially how Stearns views and uses the 40 man.

[FVBrewerFan]

I like CC, but this strict "Knebel is our closer" stand is not smart and the type of thing that drives me nuts with so many managers. I dislike the one conventional closer thing to begin with, but to die on that hill with Knebel right now does not make any sense.

 

With the Brewer's current pen, Knebel has the worst ERA and FIP, the highest HR allowed %, and the 2nd highest walk percentage. This is in 30 games too, so not exactly a real small sample size for a reliever.

 

At the very least, Knebel should be used in some non closer situations to see if he can get rolling a bit before continuing with him being your one, conventional closer. Honestly, right now he's gotta be considered, at best, your 4th best reliever.

 

I think there's an obvious solution here, make Hader the primary closer. He has been the most dominant reliever all year.

 

Also, I fear they're not going to use Soria correctly. He will be just one more arm to add in a game, shortening the outings of others. In other words, if they have a game they would have used Burnes, Jeffress, Knebel they'll throw Soria out there too just because they have him.

 

No matter how good any of these guys are, the more relievers you use in a close game, the more likely one of them blows up. For example, Burnes had things under control last night, pulled after 2/3 inning. I get it was 2-2 at the time, lefty coming up, but it was only the 6th inning. Let these guys roll if they're pitching well! Try to get through every game with one less pitcher and you'll keep everyone fresher that way too.

[adambr2]

Math is not my strong suit, so some of the experts on the site, feel free to jump in and correct me if I'm wrong, but if we have a 40 man crunch, remove one player, Kodi, then add another, Soria, doesn't that mean we are in the exact same situation pre trade?

 

In addition to what others said about potentially not exercising the option which would free up a slot, even keeping him in a way frees up a slot indirectly. As in it would be used on a player who would contribute to the major league club (I mean it's possible Kodi would've too, but also very possible he wouldn't). Spending a 40-man spot on someone who will be in the minors all year means you need another player in that position for the 25-man roster. Soria makes another reliever expendable, and in a way saves a spot that way.

 

Correct. It's quite a long shot that Kodi would be a possible contributor on a contending major league team next year, which makes him a tough guy to stash on the 40 man roster especially how Stearns views and uses the 40 man.

 

I see no reason Medeiros couldn't have been used as a rotational pen arm next year like Lopez or Houser this year. He's more MLB ready than Marcos Diplan who they protected last year.

[adambr2]

I like CC, but this strict "Knebel is our closer" stand is not smart and the type of thing that drives me nuts with so many managers. I dislike the one conventional closer thing to begin with, but to die on that hill with Knebel right now does not make any sense.

 

With the Brewer's current pen, Knebel has the worst ERA and FIP, the highest HR allowed %, and the 2nd highest walk percentage. This is in 30 games too, so not exactly a real small sample size for a reliever.

 

At the very least, Knebel should be used in some non closer situations to see if he can get rolling a bit before continuing with him being your one, conventional closer. Honestly, right now he's gotta be considered, at best, your 4th best reliever.

 

I think there's an obvious solution here, make Hader the primary closer. He has been the most dominant reliever all year.

 

Also, I fear they're not going to use Soria correctly. He will be just one more arm to add in a game, shortening the outings of others. In other words, if they have a game they would have used Burnes, Jeffress, Knebel they'll throw Soria out there too just because they have him.

 

No matter how good any of these guys are, the more relievers you use in a close game, the more likely one of them blows up. For example, Burnes had things under control last night, pulled after 2/3 inning. I get it was 2-2 at the time, lefty coming up, but it was only the 6th inning. Let these guys roll if they're pitching well! Try to get through every game with one less pitcher and you'll keep everyone fresher that way too.

 

Or, just not have a closer. Play matchups and situations. If Hader closed a game yesterday but Soria hasn't pitched in 3 days and a string of righties is due up in the 9th, I see no good reason that he shouldn't close.

 

All of Hader, Jeffress, Knebel, and Soria can be used as "closers". Why does one particular player need to be designated to retire the last 3 batters of any game?