Suter Has Torn UCL, Will Likely Need TJ Surgery

[xisxisxis]

Tough News for Brent... Maybe the Brewers can trade a lottery player to the Dodgers for one of Clayton Kershaw's ligaments...

[clancyphile]

I would hope, though, that the Crew takes a long hard look at the initial exam and tries to figure out if the torn UCL was misdiagnosed.

 

If so, then someone needs to be canned. The Crew has lost Suter for about 18 months, and he won't be back until 2020. His career may never be the same (if there is a drop-off, I think they have to look at a relief role for him).

[Boomer5]

Tough News for Brent... Maybe the Brewers can trade a lottery player to the Dodgers for one of Clayton Kershaw's ligaments...

 

We need a like button.

[Austin Tatious]

That stinks. There are some years where you just get drilled by injuries. This year is getting nuts.

[long ball]

This sucks. He's one of my favorite players.

 

Suter beat the odds by making it to the bigs. I'd bet on him to get back to being a useful major leaguer.

[LouisEly]

I would hope, though, that the Crew takes a long hard look at the initial exam and tries to figure out if the torn UCL was misdiagnosed.

 

If so, then someone needs to be canned. The Crew has lost Suter for about 18 months, and he won't be back until 2020. His career may never be the same (if there is a drop-off, I think they have to look at a relief role for him).

Not picking on you specifically, but there is a feeling by a number of people here that if a player doesn't immediately go on the DL it is Counsell's/DS's/trainer's/somebody's fault.

 

It's more than likely the player's fault. If you go to the doctor and your arm or back or something is hurt and don't tell the doctor - or tell the doctor you feel fine - what is the doctor going to do? Nothing, because you told him you felt fine. Professional athletes are immensely competitive and don't want to be considered "soft" or "unavailable". Being "unavailable" is also a great way for a fringe player to get sent to the minors.

 

Proper medical diagnoses of internal injuries must start with the patient telling the doctor - accurately, clearly, and thoroughly - how they are feeling.

[reillymcshane]

It is always terrible when something like this happens - especially to someone like Suter - who has overcome the odds to make to the big leagues. Just feel for the guy.

 

Well, if anyone will work at a comeback, it will be Suter. But it won't happen until 2020. Good luck to the guy.

[coolhandluke121]

Really disappointing. Love the guy and think he's a little underrated by many. This was probably a factor in some of his recent struggles, but now for years we'll have to hear how his e.r.a. was almost 5 even though he was a very steady, consistent #5 for almost all of his time with the Brewers. His bat and glove were good enough to be factors in his value as well.

 

Count me in for Woodruff or even Burnes, but I think they'll go with Miley and that's okay too. I'm a little worried about Davies' health, not to mention the fact that he actually deserves some of the excessive criticism that Suter often got for not having "good stuff". I don't expect Nelson back, and I'm going to need a bigger barf bucket if it's Wilkerson.

 

They've been getting by with some smoke and mirrors in the rotation most of the year and it's catching up to them. Just hang in there and don't do anything stupid. Get to those bullpen games in September and they'll have an advantage over the other wild card contenders. They almost caught up in the wild card chase in September last year after a similar nightmare stretch, and this year I think they get over the hump.

[tmwiese55]

Really disappointing. Love the guy and think he's a little underrated by many. This was probably a factor in some of his recent struggles, but now for years we'll have to hear how his e.r.a. was almost 5 even though he was a very steady, consistent #5 for almost all of his time with the Brewers. His bat and glove were good enough to be factors in his value as well.

 

Count me in for Woodruff or even Burnes, but I think they'll go with Miley and that's okay too. I'm a little worried about Davies' health, not to mention the fact that he actually deserves some of the excessive criticism that Suter often got for not having "good stuff". I don't expect Nelson back, and I'm going to need a bigger barf bucket if it's Wilkerson.

 

They've been getting by with some smoke and mirrors in the rotation most of the year and it's catching up to them. Just hang in there and don't do anything stupid. Get to those bullpen games in September and they'll have an advantage over the other wild card contenders. They almost caught up in the wild card chase in September last year after a similar nightmare stretch, and this year I think they get over the hump.

 

And all the off days after this brutal stretch should help that even more. The issues leading up to the break and possibly in the current stretch is bullpen is just overworked. With all those off days that won't or at least shouldn't be a problem. Have to get there still in the race though.

[coolhandluke121]

 

And all the off days after this brutal stretch should help that even more. The issues leading up to the break and possibly in the current stretch is bullpen is just overworked. With all those off days that won't or at least shouldn't be a problem. Have to get there still in the race though.

 

Agree completely. A few other wild card contenders have played 100 games and some of them will be able to play the same game, but the depth of this bullpen is nuts - especially with Burnes in there and Albers on the way back. I wouldn't be surprised if getting to those September bullpen games and having Burnes with low mileage so he can go 2-3 innings at a time is part of the plan. They did a great job with bullpen starts last year.

[timpep]

I would hope, though, that the Crew takes a long hard look at the initial exam and tries to figure out if the torn UCL was misdiagnosed.

 

My thoughts exactly. How long has he been hurt?

[ClosetBrewerFan]

I wonder if the brewers will keep him on the 40 man roster this offseason. They could use the spot. I doubt anyone would claim him.

[superfly]

Bad news for Suter, good news for those that want pitching acquired. Our hand is essentially forced if we want to compete this year IMO...you can't depend on the likes of the Wilkersons of the world when youre thin already with Miley types starting.

[FVBrewerFan]

Is it odd my initial reaction was to feel bad for Clancy?

[Fear The Chorizo]

(if there is a drop-off, I think they have to look at a relief role for him).

 

If there is a drop-off, they'd be looking at a minor league instructor role for him - too much young pitching depth in the minors and already at the major league level for a lesser version of Suter to stick anywhere in the Brewer rotation 2 seasons from now.

 

My guess is his best opportunity to get back to the majors will be for a different organization. It sucks, but it's reality.

[Roderick]

Bad news for Suter, good news for those that want pitching acquired. Our hand is essentially forced if we want to compete this year IMO...you can't depend on the likes of the Wilkersons of the world when youre thin already with Miley types starting.

 

Our hand is forced is a bit of hyperbole.

 

I'm not against sending out prospects that we could potentially lose to 40 man roster for a starter, but I wouldn't assume they would be any better than what we are starting already.

 

We still have Anderson, Chacin, Guerra, Peralta, Miley.

 

Woodruff is #6. He would probably only go 4 innings his first outing and build up from there.

 

I still think Burnes can be stretched out again regardless of whatever the Brewers are saying now.

 

Then you have a coin flip on maybe getting back a decent Davies.

 

You can stack Asher and Lopez and eat up some innings one day if you are just getting by. But also remember that we will have days off, and can skip a spot in the rotation if we need to if someone isn't performing as well or to keep Peralta's innings down.

 

I know Wilkerson has looked terrible in MILW, but he has looked good in AA last year and very good in CS this year. Probably is a AAAA guy, but I am willing to give him one last look before giving up.

 

If we are only talking about a spot start and we are deep in the hunt, then you could also use a few of the AA starters that are having fine seasons, but probably Medeiros as he has to be protected anyways.

 

Then in September, you can bring up Ramirez, QTC, Asher, etc and have a bullpen day if you really wanted to. And of course the lottery tix in Jimmy Nelson.

[clancyphile]

With some research, 85-92 percent of pitchers have a full recovery.

 

That said... Suter is the kind of pitcher who if we let go, will come back to bite us. Maybe he ends up in the pen (another 2-3 inning relief ace like Hader), maybe he returns to the rotation, maybe he's a closer.

[StearnsFTW]

Feel bad for the guy, but this doesn't really hurt the Brewers much. He's been pretty bad this year after a good 2017. Obviously, the injury likely factors into that.

 

He certainly shouldn't be on the 40 man at any point. No one is going to take him most likely and if they do, oh well.

[jerichoholicninja]

Doesn't throw hard and throws about 100 innings a year. Not really a guy you would expect to tear his UCL.

[Fear The Chorizo]

With some research, 85-92 percent of pitchers have a full recovery.

 

That said... Suter is the kind of pitcher who if we let go, will come back to bite us. Maybe he ends up in the pen (another 2-3 inning relief ace like Hader), maybe he returns to the rotation, maybe he's a closer.

 

He'll be 30 before he's back in the big leagues, and his best role longterm is probably that of a LOOGY or middle reliever/swingman (just like it's always been). Closer, relief ace, or consistent rotation starter he is most certainly not (unless whichever ligament gets used on his elbow suddenly gives him 7-8 more mph and a better breaking ball).

 

Suter has made the most of his opportunity to have a major league career, but he was always going to have to fight to keep a roster spot. Looking at what Milwaukee has in the organization for pitching, he'll be hard-pressed to stick with the Brewers longterm.

[MadScientist]

Doesn't throw hard and throws about 100 innings a year. Not really a guy you would expect to tear his UCL.

 

At first glance I'd agree with you, but there is one definite risk factor for him - he works quick. One of the components of fatigue units https://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/an-introduction-to-fatigue-units-a-new-method-for-evaluating-workloads/ is the pace of pitching. Suter works very fast, so it's likely that he wasn't giving his arm enough recovery time between pitches. If there was anything else in his pitching style that put more stress on his elbow, the combination could have been what did him in.

[clancyphile]

With some research, 85-92 percent of pitchers have a full recovery.

 

That said... Suter is the kind of pitcher who if we let go, will come back to bite us. Maybe he ends up in the pen (another 2-3 inning relief ace like Hader), maybe he returns to the rotation, maybe he's a closer.

 

He'll be 30 before he's back in the big leagues, and his best role longterm is probably that of a LOOGY or middle reliever/swingman (just like it's always been). Closer, relief ace, or consistent rotation starter he is most certainly not (unless whichever ligament gets used on his elbow suddenly gives him 7-8 more mph and a better breaking ball).

 

Suter has made the most of his opportunity to have a major league career, but he was always going to have to fight to keep a roster spot. Looking at what Milwaukee has in the organization for pitching, he'll be hard-pressed to stick with the Brewers longterm.

 

Suter's numbers the first time through an order have generally been very good:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=suterbr01&year=Career&t=p#times::none

 

He will have a lot of value going forward for somebody. His numbers this season included a better BB/K ratio, and a low WHIP. The only minus was more gopher balls.

 

You make the mistake to thinking that someone has to throw 95 to be a dominant pitcher. I don't think that is the case. I'll take someone who gets the outs. Through his pro career, Suter's done that, and done that very well, despite being at 85.

 

I'm more focused on whether he keeps the command and control he's shown over the years.

[Fear The Chorizo]

You make the mistake to thinking that someone has to throw 95 to be a dominant pitcher.

 

As someone who absolutely loved Greg Maddux, Moyer, and Tom Glavine, I absolutely do not think that - In fact I feel like having a rotation with at least one guy like Suter in it can be very valuable simply because the league has completely gone away from pitchability and is too focused on velocity, IMO.

 

Unfortunately, Suter doesn't have near the level of command or movement on his pitches to be a longterm starter option in this league - he's never demonstrated the ability to consistently get through the order twice much less three times with ease. Even when he's dealing, if the top of the order comes up a 3rd time facing Suter, the bullpen better be loose. You cited his good #'s the first time through the order - to me that screams like his best role is as a middle reliever/swing man, like I stated.

 

The comment about velocity has to do with you mentioning Suter as a potential closer - you don't have to throw it through a wall to be a quality closer, but you do need better stuff than what Suter has. He's not Trevor Hoffman - who still threw much harder than Suter during his best closer seasons to set up his bugs bunny changeup.

 

I know you're Suter's biggest fan - but you also have to face the reality of a late 20's guy who throws mid 80's with a career 4 ERA getting ready to get a ligament surgery isn't someone teams are going to fall over themselves to add to their 40 man roster.

[JCREW]

Feel bad for the guy, but this doesn't really hurt the Brewers much. He's been pretty bad this year after a good 2017. Obviously, the injury likely factors into that.

 

He certainly shouldn't be on the 40 man at any point. No one is going to take him most likely and if they do, oh well.

 

I'd assume he'd go to the 60-day DL and open up a 40-man spot without being exposed to other teams.

[istanbultaye]

Feel bad for the guy, but this doesn't really hurt the Brewers much. He's been pretty bad this year after a good 2017. Obviously, the injury likely factors into that.

 

He certainly shouldn't be on the 40 man at any point. No one is going to take him most likely and if they do, oh well.

 

I'd assume he'd go to the 60-day DL and open up a 40-man spot without being exposed to other teams.

 

The 60 day DL is not available in the offseason is my understanding, so that is where the 40 man roster crunch is, and Suter is pretty likely to not be kept on the 40.