David Stearns Free Pass??

[OldSchoolSnapper]

You think a playoff appearance is worth gambling the future on.

 

What future assets have been gambled in hopes of making a playoff appearance?

 

What do you mean? They did this in the past for both Sabathia and Greinke. They didn't even get to the World Series either time, not to say they were bad moves, but that is the fact. Even though both moves essentially worked, in the end they paid a price. LaPorta was a bust, Brantley had a great career.

 

The Royals don't win a WS and play in two without our assets. Was it worth it? I guess, 2011 was fun. But there certainly was a cost.

[sveumrules]

Yes, Doug Melvin made those trades.

 

What future assets has Stearns gambled in hopes of making a playoff appearance?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Yes, Doug Melvin made those trades.

 

What future assets has Stearns gambled in hopes of making a playoff appearance?

 

I think 82brewcrew82 is arguing against the theory of doing that, rather than saying it has already happened. Which I totally get.

[A Swing and A Drive]

You gotta give Stearns credit. He acquired three NL All-Stars this past offseason. (Cain, Yelich and Jeffress)

 

However the Stearns GM can-do-no-wrong hero worship is getting a little out of control, IMO.

 

I really didn't like how he waited until after the Non-Waiver Trade deadline last year to make moves, for example adding a non-difference maker like Neil Walker.

 

I think Brewer fans should at least wait until after the July 31st Non Waiver deadline THIS year before passing more judgement about his aggressiveness, or lack thereof.

[DocLuna7]

You gotta give Stearns credit. He acquired three NL All-Stars this past offseason. (Cain, Yelich and Jeffress)

 

However the Stearns GM can-do-no-wrong hero worship is getting a little out of control, IMO.

 

I really didn't like how he waited until after the Non-Waiver Trade deadline last year to make moves, for example adding a non-difference maker like Neil Walker.

 

I think Brewer fans should at least wait until after the July 31st Non Waiver deadline THIS year before passing more judgement about his aggressiveness, or lack thereof.

 

For what it’s worth I think Walker performed admirably last year during his brief stint with the Brewers. Wish we had him back actually.

[monty57]

The thing that bugs me the most, is after this recent swoon, a lot of people want Stearns to "stand pat" because we can't win the World Series.

 

We are leading the wild card race and people don't want Stearns to add to this team? Can we only be buyers and add to this team if we are 20 games over .500 and in first place at the all-star game? Geez...

 

Such a defeated mentality.

 

Agreed. We have been to the playoffs 4 times. We are deep in the hunt now so why not try to win?

 

I guess it depends on the definition of "try to win." Prior to last season, you were certain the Brewers were making moves in order to "tank for good draft picks." Since then, they've probably won 30-40 more games than you expected. Therefore, one could argue that they are "trying to win." If they were simply "trying to win" this year, I'm sure they could easily put some packages together to bring in some rentals. Of course that would mean shipping out guys who are going to help us "try to win" for the next decade or so.

 

Rather, I think Stearns is trying to build the franchise (not just the MLB team) to resemble to Astros. He wants an organization that is teeming with talent at all levels, so they can win at the MLB level and still have loads of talent in the minors. If he can get there, then he'll have a lot of options, but for now, I'd just as soon not trade away the guys who we are projecting to be at the top of our rotation as we "try to win" in the future.

 

I expect that Dozier is going to be our "Neil Walker move" of 2018. He should be an upgrade over what we've been throwing out there at 2B, and won't cost us anyone that will hurt. Those are the type of moves I'm happy seeing him make at this stage of the "rebuild." If we're going to give up more, then we need to have someone who will help us out in the long term, like they did in the Yelich deal.

[82brewcrew82]

You think a playoff appearance is worth gambling the future on.

 

What future assets have been gambled in hopes of making a playoff appearance?

I have no idea what point is trying to be made here.

[homer]

The most valuable asset in baseball is starting pitching and Milwaukee ain't signing the likes of Chris Sale as free agent to fill in rotation gaps. To trade away guys like Peralta and Burnes for half a season of Machado is not wise use of assets. Now if they were getting 1.5 years of Machado then maybe you do it, but for a rental that is an awfully risky move and could easily take you out of the playoffs for years to come.

[TooLiveBrew]

However the Stearns GM can-do-no-wrong hero worship is getting a little out of control, IMO.

Who has made that claim?

[sveumrules]

You think a playoff appearance is worth gambling the future on.

 

What future assets have been gambled in hopes of making a playoff appearance?

I have no idea what point is trying to be made here.

 

The point I was going for is that when Stearns has had opportunities to surrender future long term assets in exchange for a short term upgrade, he has not done so.

 

Given that past history I don't see why there is any fear or expectation of him doing so now.

[MrTPlush]

Stearns deserves a pat on the back because he got 3 AS players in the offseason? One fell into our lap (Jeffress), he paid to get one (Cain), and sold a huge chunk of farm to get another (Yelich). That deserves almost no credit. I can make those kind of moves on a video game. Sorry those aren’t impressive moves.

 

Overall I will give him this year and last as free passes. One year we surprised and this year was his first go at really controlling a winner. If the team fails again next year? Well, then I am going to start questioning. We have many great players on this team and have huge prospect capital near MLB ready. They either need to perform or get traded to get help.

 

Don’t get me wrong I love a lot of Stearns moves, but eventually you gotta be able to get the team into the postseason and win those games. So far we are floundering two years in a row. You have to get end of the year team results...not a bunch of individual nice moves.

 

Generally speaking Stearns has got through 2020 to prove himself and Counsell has got through next year before I really wondering about him...especially if it is another hot start only to poop the bed. Obviously a lot can change that between now and then.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The most valuable asset in baseball is starting pitching and Milwaukee ain't signing the likes of Chris Sale as free agent to fill in rotation gaps. To trade away guys like Peralta and Burnes for half a season of Machado is not wise use of assets. Now if they were getting 1.5 years of Machado then maybe you do it, but for a rental that is an awfully risky move and could easily take you out of the playoffs for years to come.

 

Generally agree, but specifically to the Brewers I'd say the most valuable asset is team-controlled, budget-friendly, impact starting pitching. This year has proven to a large extent that if you mine the right pile of veteran starters, you can come with a few serviceable rotation options to give you 5ish innings consistently and leave the game with a good chance to win. However, impact starters aren't out there on the waiver wire or toiling away buried on some other organization's depth chart. The Brewers either have to draft/develop a couple of them, or acquire one using farm system prospect depth - because they shouldn't be in the free agent market at the level those arms command. Think of how brutal the Darvish signing would be looking right now had Yu accepted the Brewers' reported deal?

 

Losing Nelson for what appears to be basically all of 2018 really hurts, particularly with his current stage in team control.

[Ennder]

I don't think the team should be buyers so for me he gets a free pass. This team is at least 4 players away from having a realistic shot at winning a playoff series. If they make a move it needs to be for someone that is going to help next year as well and I'd be much happier if they helped in 2020 as well which is the first year I expected the team to have a chance at being competitive when we went into rebuild mode.

 

If Stearns has an issue it is he did his job too good and put us in an awkward position where we are in striking distance for the playoffs but really should still be sellers. The fans will flip out if we actually sell like we should but we don't want to buy when it makes no sense either.

[owbc]

It's been mentioned already but we need to reiterate it--the offseason moves were absolutely brilliant, all three major moves hit the jackpot plus an all-star pulled off the scrap heap. This was a roster headed for 75 wins before these moves, perhaps less. Look at the WAR of these guys--it's a 10+ win improvement already.

 

This team would be the NL World Series favorites if it had a middle infield, so it's fair to ask where things went wrong. But criticism for not trading Machado is bad news and it would be very dangerous as a fanbase to pressure management to make those kind of moves. We all remember 2008 and 2011 fondly but we need to also remember 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, and 2017. How many more years do we want to add to that list in exchange for playoffs in 2018?

[homer]

Stearns deserves a pat on the back because he got 3 AS players in the offseason? One fell into our lap (Jeffress), he paid to get one (Cain), and sold a huge chunk of farm to get another (Yelich). That deserves almost no credit. I can make those kind of moves on a video game. Sorry those aren’t impressive moves.

 

Sold a huge chunk of the farm for a controllable all-star.I didn't see any other teams making that kind of deal.

[jjfanec]

Stearns deserves a pat on the back because he got 3 AS players in the offseason? One fell into our lap (Jeffress), he paid to get one (Cain), and sold a huge chunk of farm to get another (Yelich). That deserves almost no credit. I can make those kind of moves on a video game. Sorry those aren’t impressive moves.

 

So no free agent acquisition is impressive? If you get one cheap he fell into your lap? If you pay for one that doesnt count either? The fact of the matter is Stearns went out an got 3 guys who are easily outperforming their contracts in Cain, Jeffress and Chacin. Add on top of that getting Yelich without selling a huge chunk of the farm. He didnt without giving up any of our top pitching and without giving up Huira. That is impressive. And he got one of the top NL Ofers who is controlled for a while. I am not sure what a GM can get credit for in your mind

[dlk9s]

Stearns deserves a pat on the back because he got 3 AS players in the offseason? One fell into our lap (Jeffress), he paid to get one (Cain), and sold a huge chunk of farm to get another (Yelich). That deserves almost no credit. I can make those kind of moves on a video game. Sorry those aren’t impressive moves.

 

[OldSchoolSnapper]

The most valuable asset in baseball is starting pitching and Milwaukee ain't signing the likes of Chris Sale as free agent to fill in rotation gaps. To trade away guys like Peralta and Burnes for half a season of Machado is not wise use of assets. Now if they were getting 1.5 years of Machado then maybe you do it, but for a rental that is an awfully risky move and could easily take you out of the playoffs for years to come.

 

Time and a place. I'd do it with a better team. We're not there.

[lowblow]

As you question yourselves and each other about Stearns' success you should ask yourself what kind of fan you are.

Are you 1) the I want to win a World Series whatever it takes kind of fan or a 2) I want to compete for a playoff spot every year even though we are pretty unlikely to win it all kind of fan. It's really hard to be a fan of a small market team in baseball today and be both. The resources of the big market teams are so much greater that they can take lots of chances that the small market teams fear to. As one poster mentioned earlier, where would the Brewers be if they had "won" the Darvish Sweepstakes?

 

The reality of baseball today is that you have to take chances to become great. For a small market team to win the World Series they have to be not only good but very lucky in the chances they take. So if you're a type 1 fan, you will be wanting your GM to take chances, "mortgage the future", etc. because that's how teams in that financial situation can go for the big prize. If you're a type 2 fan, you'll content to be in the discussion every year when someone mentions "contenders" knowing that your team is unlikely to win the big prize, but you'll get to watch a lot of winning games. Type 2 fans will want their GM to protect their "prospects" for the "future".

 

A long time ago in my high school days, I was the type of athlete who was just good enough to make every team he tried out for, but never really excellent at any sport. In retrospect, that was pretty unsatisfying to me....that one moment of excellence would have meant everything to me. I'm a type 1 fan. I'd risk years of mediocrity for that one year of superiority.

 

When you think about your GM's actions, put it into the context of what type of fan you are.

[dlk9s]

Examples of when Stearns deserves a pat on the back:

 

1) On a vacation in India, spots a 17-year old boy playing street cricket in the slums. Sees potential in the kid, signs him to a contract. Brings kid to the States and teams him up with a grizzled, retired MLB coach who insists he will only work with him if he can "do things his way." Kid becomes an All-Star starting pitcher.

 

2) Drafts 5'1" high schooler in the 42nd round of the draft because he "sees a lot of himself in him" and "believes someone with his heart deserves a chance." Kid hits growth spurt, becomes 6'2" OBP machine who also - did you realize - paints beautiful watercolors of all of the MLB stadiums. Disney buys rights to his story.

 

3) Having lunch at Solly's, sits next to a 29-year old mail carrier who is putting down doubles like it is his last day on this fine Earth. Impressed, Stearns strikes up a conversation with him to find out that he used to play semi-pro ball. He still loves the game and can throw hard, but could never find his control. Also had a Beanie Baby addiction. Stearns signs him to a minor-league contract with "no promises." Pitching coaches tweaks guy's mechanics and the dude becomes a lights-out setup man with the Crew.

[Boomer5]

The issue I have with your philosophy is it is unclear as to when you decide, then, that you actually have a contender. If 18 games over .500 (or 12 games now) isn't an invitation to shoot for the playoffs, then when is it?

 

You have to know your talent. Was the great first half a result of "breakout" performances from a few players or is it more likely playing over their heads? Before the season started the Brewers were universally regarded (outside the Brewer fan base) as having less talent than the cubs and several of the NL wild card hopefuls. That was with Cain and Yelich. This season we've seen complete collapses from Santana & Arcia, Underperformance by Anderson countering another great season from Aguilar, regression from Braun, injuries to Thames, what we hoped/expected from Cain/Yelich and a fantastic first half from the Bullpen. Based on all of that it's not clear the teams record is reflective of the talent and they still have a poor splits against good/bad teams. Some of that screams luck/playing over their heads. I've been against giving up much for rentals because I don't see a playoff team in talent right now (at least with Burnes in the bullpen and Peralta in the minors). Sure, someone will throw out the 2015 Royals, but I don't buy a winning retirement strategy of putting all your excess money into lottery tickets waiting for the win and I don't buy trying to model a once in a lifetime teams run to a World Series...

 

I would tend to agree. This is not a talented MLB roster. But they are in the chase so why not build off that and add the talent now?

 

I do think the 2015 Royals are a viable model. Why not try? It’s not like we are in the playoffs so often that can afford to retool.

[Austin Tatious]

This is an interesting thread and I respect all views. It's interesting to see different perspectives. I can even have my mind changed by a persuasive point.

 

As for me, I couldn't possibly be happier with David Stearns at the moment. I like where we are as an organization, and I like his big picture concepts. Sure, he's going to have some misses, because baseball is a sport played by humans and no one can predict the future.

 

We cannot say whether the failure to land Machado is a bust yet or not. Let's see if Corbin Burnes, who the Orioles were fixated on, turns into a stud pitcher. Last year, we passed on Hader for Quintana. I think Burnes and Hader will be critical pieces for years. If I am wrong then maybe we should have Quintana and Machado for two months.

 

I am also going to predict that the Orioles bit off their nose to spite their face because I suspect our offer will end up having been the better one. The Dodgers gave up a lot of filler.

 

I think the rate of addition to our farm system is higher than the rate of losses from trades and "graduations." We have Chad McClanahan, Tristen Lutz, Carlos Rodriguez, Jean Carmona, Brice Turang, Joe Gray, Micah Bello and a host of other talent with high upside coming.

 

Frankly, my bigger fear is we lose Stearns at some point.

 

Maybe my mind will change if he makes a bizarre trade, like including Hiura or Ray for JT Realmuto, but the mentality so far has been outstanding. Unlike the run we had from 2007-2011, we can expect new talent to refresh the roster continually. That gives me great hope.

 

Bottom line, we don't need to take one hack at the playoffs in 2018. I go the opposite direction. If you take enough hacks at the playoffs, and you will break through and be on the right roll at the right time if you are in it consistently. Look at the Cardinals. They won a world series or two without the best talent. But things fell in place. That's what I see for the beloved Brewers and I couldn't agree more.

[OnaBadger58]

This is an interesting thread and I respect all views. It's interesting to see different perspectives. I can even have my mind changed by a persuasive point.

 

As for me, I couldn't possibly be happier with David Stearns at the moment. I like where we are as an organization, and I like his big picture concepts. Sure, he's going to have some misses, because baseball is a sport played by humans and no one can predict the future.

 

We cannot say whether the failure to land Machado is a bust yet or not. Let's see if Corbin Burnes, who the Orioles were fixated on, turns into a stud pitcher. Last year, we passed on Hader for Quintana. I think Burnes and Hader will be critical pieces for years. If I am wrong then maybe we should have Quintana and Machado for two months.

 

I am also going to predict that the Orioles bit off their nose to spite their face because I suspect our offer will end up having been the better one. The Dodgers gave up a lot of filler.

 

I think the rate of addition to our farm system is higher than the rate of losses from trades and "graduations." We have Chad McClanahan, Tristen Lutz, Carlos Rodriguez, Jean Carmona, Brice Turang, Joe Gray, Micah Bello and a host of other talent with high upside coming.

 

Frankly, my bigger fear is we lose Stearns at some point.

 

Maybe my mind will change if he makes a bizarre trade, like including Hiura or Ray for JT Realmuto, but the mentality so far has been outstanding. Unlike the run we had from 2007-2011, we can expect new talent to refresh the roster continually. That gives me great hope.

 

Bottom line, we don't need to take one hack at the playoffs in 2018. I go the opposite direction. If you take enough hacks at the playoffs, and you will break through and be on the right roll at the right time if you are in it consistently. Look at the Cardinals. They won a world series or two without the best talent. But things fell in place. That's what I see for the beloved Brewers and I couldn't agree more.

 

Well said, and I agree with about everything that you said (I would trade Hiura+ for Realmuto though ) I'm also a 5 year forecaster as opposed to the "now is the time, next year is no guarantee" type fan. I want to have sustained success and not have that 3 year window of bust. I really like the way Stearns has approached everything so far.

[Pugger]

You gotta give Stearns credit. He acquired three NL All-Stars this past offseason. (Cain, Yelich and Jeffress)

 

However the Stearns GM can-do-no-wrong hero worship is getting a little out of control, IMO.

 

I really didn't like how he waited until after the Non-Waiver Trade deadline last year to make moves, for example adding a non-difference maker like Neil Walker.

 

I think Brewer fans should at least wait until after the July 31st Non Waiver deadline THIS year before passing more judgement about his aggressiveness, or lack thereof.

 

For what it’s worth I think Walker performed admirably last year during his brief stint with the Brewers. Wish we had him back actually.

 

Me too. He'd be better than what we have presently.

[Pugger]

Stearns deserves a pat on the back because he got 3 AS players in the offseason? One fell into our lap (Jeffress), he paid to get one (Cain), and sold a huge chunk of farm to get another (Yelich). That deserves almost no credit. I can make those kind of moves on a video game. Sorry those aren’t impressive moves.

 

So no free agent acquisition is impressive? If you get one cheap he fell into your lap? If you pay for one that doesnt count either? The fact of the matter is Stearns went out an got 3 guys who are easily outperforming their contracts in Cain, Jeffress and Chacin. Add on top of that getting Yelich without selling a huge chunk of the farm. He didnt without giving up any of our top pitching and without giving up Huira. That is impressive. And he got one of the top NL Ofers who is controlled for a while. I am not sure what a GM can get credit for in your mind

 

This.

 

Stearns isn't perfect by any means but criticizing him for those offseason moves seems to me to be complaining just to complain because the team is scuffling right now.