2018-07-23: Nationals (Gonzalez) at Brewers (Chacín) 7:10 PM CDT [Brewers win, 6-1]

[Eye Black]

[pre]Nationals Lineup Brewers Lineup

1. Adam Eaton (L) RF 1. Keon Broxton ® RF

2. Anthony Rendon ® 3B 2. Christian Yelich (L) LF

3. Bryce Harper (L) CF 3. Lorenzo Cain ® CF

4. Ryan Zimmerman ® 1B 4. Ryan Braun ® 1B

5. Juan Soto (L) LF 5. Travis Shaw (L) 3B

6. Daniel Murphy (L) 2B 6. Tyler Saladino ® SS

7. Trea Turner ® SS 7. Hernán Pérez ® 2B

8. Matt Wieters (S) C 8. Erik Kratz ® C

9. Gio Gonzalez ® P 9. Jhoulys Chacín ® P[/pre]

[82brewcrew82]

Well, yesterday sure felt/looked like rock bottom.

[KeithStone53151]

Well maybe today CC will actually try to win the game. Has anyone gotten the sense that he isn't managing in an effort to try and win anymore? He's more interested in trying to be efficient with his relievers than actually win a game, let's leave Taylor Williams out there to give up 5 runs.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Well maybe today CC will actually try to win the game. Has anyone gotten the sense that he isn't managing in an effort to try and win anymore? He's more interested in trying to be efficient with his relievers than actually win a game, let's leave Taylor Williams out there to give up 5 runs.

 

If the last few games has taught me anything, it's that "bullpenning" is not a sustainable way of playing MLB baseball. The only way it works is if your whole pen is throwing the ball well, and even then going into games with 3-4 relievers unavailable is not good. I was disappointed when they pulled Miley with a relatively low pitch count on Friday, which then taxed some of the pen. Then they used the big guns on Saturday (Burnes, Hader), which led to the debacle we say yesterday. They cannot keep up with these consistent short starts. It's time to either let these starters go longer, or perhaps give a shot to guys like Burnes or Houser in the rotation in the hope that maybe they can be stretched out to provide 100 pitches.

[82brewcrew82]

Only ten hours before the game and critical CC comments already, but yes, I'm positive he isn't actively trying win every game possible.

[82brewcrew82]

This is the first series in a long time where I looked at the pitching matchups and thought we were at least even in all of them.

[tmwiese55]

Just need at least a 4-3 week to stop the bleeding. 5-2 would be great, but at least 4-3. Win tonight is the first step.

[sveumrules]

Well maybe today CC will actually try to win the game. Has anyone gotten the sense that he isn't managing in an effort to try and win anymore? He's more interested in trying to be efficient with his relievers than actually win a game, let's leave Taylor Williams out there to give up 5 runs.

 

When Williams entered the game we were already trailing 6-2.

 

After which batter would you have pulled Williams & which pitcher would you have gone to if you were managing to win the game?

[KeithStone53151]

Well maybe today CC will actually try to win the game. Has anyone gotten the sense that he isn't managing in an effort to try and win anymore? He's more interested in trying to be efficient with his relievers than actually win a game, let's leave Taylor Williams out there to give up 5 runs.

 

When Williams entered the game we were already trailing 6-2.

 

After which batter would you have pulled Williams & which pitcher would you have gone to if you were managing to win the game?

 

I get that we were already losing pretty handily, but I think you pull him and use jeffress either after the Kemp single or walk to Hernandez. He was approaching 30 pitches after the Hernandez walk, hasn't been pitching multiple innings all that much, and was clearly struggling. It's not as simple as using your best relievers in games you are winning and worst relievers in games you are losing. Sometimes, you have to use your good relievers in close games to give the guys a chance. This isn't the perfect example of that as 7-2 isn't all that close, but we had opportunities to score and were 1 hit away plenty of times. There have been other games where CC would use Jennings instead of Hader in a 1 run game in the 7th...which would then turn into a 3 run game. CC probably needs to study how some of the more effective bullpen managers handle their guys. Francona, LaRussa, Bochy, etc.

[Chicago Here]

Well maybe today CC will actually try to win the game. Has anyone gotten the sense that he isn't managing in an effort to try and win anymore? He's more interested in trying to be efficient with his relievers than actually win a game, let's leave Taylor Williams out there to give up 5 runs.

he is a great manager. Granted, Williams is a year away from doing decent against top hitters but with fat albers sidelined im not sure he has any other choices in the 4th inning.

 

I mean, Woodruff isnt great either but both are better than that one guy Zski who coughed up 2 games and had a 20.0 era. Another guy stinks az well

 

we need SP that can get thru the order 3 times.

[markedman5]

I'm not using Jeffries in a game when we trail by 4 runs ..........no way no how.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Well maybe today CC will actually try to win the game. Has anyone gotten the sense that he isn't managing in an effort to try and win anymore? He's more interested in trying to be efficient with his relievers than actually win a game, let's leave Taylor Williams out there to give up 5 runs.

 

When Williams entered the game we were already trailing 6-2.

 

After which batter would you have pulled Williams & which pitcher would you have gone to if you were managing to win the game?

 

I get that we were already losing pretty handily, but I think you pull him and use jeffress either after the Kemp single or walk to Hernandez. He was approaching 30 pitches after the Hernandez walk, hasn't been pitching multiple innings all that much, and was clearly struggling. It's not as simple as using your best relievers in games you are winning and worst relievers in games you are losing. Sometimes, you have to use your good relievers in close games to give the guys a chance. This isn't the perfect example of that as 7-2 isn't all that close, but we had opportunities to score and were 1 hit away plenty of times. There have been other games where CC would use Jennings instead of Hader in a 1 run game in the 7th...which would then turn into a 3 run game. CC probably needs to study how some of the more effective bullpen managers handle their guys. Francona, LaRussa, Bochy, etc.

 

In general those managers you listed always had a few starters in their rotation that could be counted on to give them much more than 4-5 IP before having to start making pen decisions - meaning they could essentially pencil in 6-7IP at minimum for 1/2 if not more than 1/2 of the games started. That makes being aggressive with quality late inning relievers much easier to do. In yesterday's game, the Brewers got bageled the rest of the game offensively after plating 2 and having 1 out, bases loaded in the 1st. The best friends of any bullpen are 1a - quality starters that consistently leave the pen with 9 outs or less to get per game, and 1b - a consistent, above average offense that can provide them the occasional stretch of easy appearances due to scoring a ton of runs. This Brewers team appears to have neither, so when the pen goes through it's expected periods of overuse and poor performances, it looks really bad.

[wildcat83]

We’re getting real desperate for wins when people suggest using Jeffress when down 2-6.

[markedman5]

Jesus still ailing.......can't afford to lose him for any length of time

 

[Fear The Chorizo]

Tonight's Brewer lineup leaves alot to be desired for a team that could really use winning the first game of a series...please prove me wrong!

 

Broxton

Yelich

Cain

Braun

Shaw

Saladino

Perez

Kratz

Chacin

[brooks_quichenick]

Might be time to call Arcia back up and slide Saladino over to 2B. Tired of seeing Hernan in the starting lineup.

[TURBO]

CC has pulled starters all season with low pitch counts, with leads, before they appeared to struggle. How do we know our starters can't go more than 4 or 5 or 6 innings when they have rrarely been given the chance for us to find out.

[markedman5]

I believe the advanced stat numbers have been mentioned as the reason. Starters going through the order for the 3rd time have numbers that take a nose dive . According to BA the evidence is overwhelming iirc.

[TURBO]

I believe the advanced stat numbers have been mentioned as the reason. Starters going through the order for the 3rd time have numbers that take a nose dive . According to BA the evidence is overwhelming iirc.

 

Do you mean our pitchers, or all pitchers in general?

 

I understand it, in fact it was uually pretty obvious that Suter was dwwply affected when he would face a line-up the 3rd time.

[markedman5]

All pitchers I believe but not sure.

 

Obviously the true aces seem to be able to go deeper so,I assume their numbers are still good but I don't have the stats the Brewers have.

[markedman5]

Can't believe Gio,just threw a 3-2 curve to Broxton.

 

I'll,take my chances throwing him a fastball...walking a 170 hitter not an option.

[JosephC]

Hopefully Gonzalez is way off his game tonight. It just looks like the Brewers will have to play with a terrible lineup versus left handers until Aguilar is ready to play.

[wildcat83]

I believe the advanced stat numbers have been mentioned as the reason. Starters going through the order for the 3rd time have numbers that take a nose dive . According to BA the evidence is overwhelming iirc.

 

The problem with saying this is that it just generalizes it, when the truth is every single game is different. Maybe starters should be pulled, sometimes they are cruzing and shouldn’t. Counsel, and I like Craig, sometimes seems to have an odd gauge on it.

 

Just using Suter as a reference, there was a start he let him go 7 I believe. The next start he was struggling with command, looked “off”, Counsel sent him out for another inning, he got shelled. The next start he’s cruising and gets pulled.

 

There used to be the old unwritten rule late: Up 2 you let him go till a base runner. Up 3 let them go till the second runner. If a pitcher had a good outing going let them go till 100 pitches but never let them “lose”. Meaning pull before that thing/go ahead run came to the plate. I’m not an old school tradition type guy... but that one made sense.

[Bulldogboy]

Ryan Braun strikes out. Hitting clean up tonight. This is the state we are in. People keep talking about bad luck. The guy stinks. The end.

[Baldkin]

I'm sure someone will now complain about Counsell not having fire and getting thrown out now