Why isn't Burnes starting?

[adambr2]

Burnes threw 146 innings in 2017, so it shouldn't be an issue if they want to push him to 170-175. If they see him as a long-term starter, they should be building his innings up, not cutting them.

 

On the surface you might think they simply want to avoid having to shut him down, but he's only at 84 2/3rds for the season. In essence, he could start every 5th game for the rest of the season, go 6 innings every time, and he'd STILL only be at 156.

 

I have no doubt he can help in the pen but he's been a starter and a very good one almost his entire professional career up until recently and it seems like he could help out in that role even more.

[Bulldogboy]

The brewers are the only team in mlb that is taking the most valuable commodity in the game and turning it into a dime a dozen commodity. First Hader now Burnes. After watching Burnes dominate the rest of the year in the pen we will get another story about how valuable he is in this role. The Brewers need to decide what they are going to do as soon as next season with this rotation. Is Davies in it?? Does Nelson make it back?? Are Burnes and Freddy in it?? Is Anderson gone?? What is Woodruff trade bait or starter?? Lots of questions but this is a fact, the two best arms I have seen this year are Peralta and Burnes. They need to be groomed to be the 1 and 1a moving forward in my opinion. Chacin has proven to be a good 4 man and I am fine with Suter as a five. It would be awesome to package the filler for a real #1 but Burnes gives me hope.

[phnxcrew]

Can anyone post The direct quote that states he’s going to

Be a starter from the team and this is just temporary? Also, if Hader works on his changeup I’m sure They’ll give him

The chance to start should he want to next Year

[brewmann04]

There is no way that Burnes is not given a chance to start next season. I did hear today that the he has two very good pitches but still has not found that solid 3rd pitch sound like Hader. But think it going to fun watching Burnes and Peralta pitch in next year rotation

[liveforoctober]

I'm not advocating one way or the other ... but you picked the absolute worst day to start this thread. The Brewers beat Clayton Kershaw and the best team in the National League yesterday precisely BECAUSE neither Burnes or Hader are starting (assist to muncy for giving us a show over at 3rd).

 

I want to see them given a chance to start as well... just thought your timing was funny.

[SomewhereInTime]

I think its a really good idea to break in young pitchers in the bullpen. A lot of successful organizations have done this for years.

[paul253]

I’ve given up on trying to understand why the Brewers do what they do with their pitching prospects. Aaron Wilkerson started a game not long ago. While Burnes sat in the pen.

[sveumrules]

Rosiak's article from the JS about Corbin's bullpen conversion & the key quote....

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2018/06/26/milwaukee-brewers-pitching-prospect-corbin-burnes-rolls-punches/733336002/

 

The switch will be a temporary one and is far from a demotion.

 

The idea was borne out of the desire to get the right-hander to the major leagues more quickly, with the hope Burnes can pitch effectively in relief and help the Brewers back to the playoffs for the first time since 2011.

 

For the first time in my 30+ years of watching the Brewers, they have started to consistently develop pitchers over the last few years. They've earned my trust in how they choose to deploy them.

[wibadgers23]

I’ve given up on trying to understand why the Brewers do what they do with their pitching prospects. Aaron Wilkerson started a game not long ago. While Burnes sat in the pen.

 

It just always seems like the Brewers would rather go with the Wade Mileys and Brent Suters of the world over our top pitching prospects. Just look at how they've treated Brandon Woodruff. I'll never understand it.

[justwinbaby]

I think it’s a good way to get higher ceiling prospects to the show more quickly. Let them get their feet wet while having success and maybe(hopefully) get a few starts. This way they have a taste and the following year are ready to rock.

[dlk9s]

I think it’s a good way to get higher ceiling prospects to the show more quickly. Let them get their feet wet while having success and maybe(hopefully) get a few starts. This way they have a taste and the following year are ready to rock.

 

This is pretty clearly the correct answer.

[adambr2]

I think it’s a good way to get higher ceiling prospects to the show more quickly. Let them get their feet wet while having success and maybe(hopefully) get a few starts. This way they have a taste and the following year are ready to rock.

 

This is pretty clearly the correct answer.

 

How is it getting Burnes to the show more quickly when he's also MLB rotation ready now?

 

I understood it to an extent with Hader and would definitely understand it with Peralta given his inning constraints this season. With Burnes it seems like more of a natural fit for him to go straight from the rotation and I'm not sure I really buy the explanation because they're not doing this with all their pitching prospects.

[sveumrules]

They're not doing this with all their pitching prospects because there is no uniform approach.

 

Each pitcher's development is unique & the organization is doing what they feel best serves that specific pitcher's development while also balancing a desire to win games at the Major League level.

[liveforoctober]

I think it’s a good way to get higher ceiling prospects to the show more quickly. Let them get their feet wet while having success and maybe(hopefully) get a few starts. This way they have a taste and the following year are ready to rock.

 

This is pretty clearly the correct answer.

 

How is it getting Burnes to the show more quickly when he's also MLB rotation ready now?

 

I understood it to an extent with Hader and would definitely understand it with Peralta given his inning constraints this season. With Burnes it seems like more of a natural fit for him to go straight from the rotation and I'm not sure I really buy the explanation because they're not doing this with all their pitching prospects.

 

When you teach a kid to swim, you start them in a pool with an adult holding on. Some learn slowly and some learn quickly. Gradually you take off their life vest and allow them to go to figure things out on their own. At some point, hopefully sooner rather than later ... they have learned everything they can in that setting and are "ready".

 

What you are suggesting is taking that kid and throwing him off a boat into a fresh water lake for their first swim. Some kids would thrive on that fear and excitement and would start swimming laps. Other kids would panic and struggle because there is no floor, because the water is different, etc and while some will overcome that and still be great swimmers ... some will be forever damaged and will never reach their potential because of that experience. In the latter cases, it is ok to give the kid who is "ready" a life jacket and let them mess around in the water a little while to get used to it before you let them get after it.

 

Each kid is different and I trust the parents and swim instructors know enough of each kid to understand what they will need to succeed. Some kids can be launched as soon as they graduate. Other kids need a life jacket for a bit.

[cesser000]

The brewers are the only team in mlb that is taking the most valuable commodity in the game and turning it into a dime a dozen commodity. First Hader now Burnes.

Hader has been infinitely more valuable in a relief role than he would have been in a starter role this year. There is no way this team is 12 games over .500 right now if he hadn't been in the bullpen all year. How many times has he come in and been lights out?

 

His stats have been up there with the best ever seen by a reliever in MLB history. I mean, just 20 hits allowed in 50 innings, with 93 K's on top of that? Those are insane stats. He's almost always pitching in high leverage situations and has been absolutely brilliant.

 

If he were in the rotation, I'm guessing he probably wouldn't be able to go much past 5 or 6 innings a start max, and of course he'd only pitch every 5 games. With the way the Brewer offense has been this season, I'd just hate to 'waste' his pitching turn if he were to go 5 or 6 innings and leave the game down 2-1 or 1-0 because the offense can't get the bats going.

 

As a reliever though, Counsell can save and deploy Hader for when the situation calls for it - when the game is close or to protect a lead, and that maximizes the overall effect he has on Brewer wins vs losses.

 

Maybe he'll be in the rotation in the future, but as a reliever, this season, he's been the MVP of this team, at least on the pitching side.

[paul253]

I think it’s a good way to get higher ceiling prospects to the show more quickly. Let them get their feet wet while having success and maybe(hopefully) get a few starts. This way they have a taste and the following year are ready to rock.

 

I’ve never understood the whole “get their feet wet” argument. These guys are professionals who have been playing baseball their entire lives. All of a sudden they get to the majors and play in front of bigger crowds and they forget how to pitch? Or they get so nervous they can’t have success but if they pitch out of the bullpen that isn’t an issue? We don’t need to baby these guys.

 

I honestly just think the Brewers as an organization have more faith in older, veteran guys even if they aren’t as good. They way Corbin Burnes is pitching I don’t see any reason not to let him start games if we need a starter. But they just won’t do it.

[liveforoctober]

I think it’s a good way to get higher ceiling prospects to the show more quickly. Let them get their feet wet while having success and maybe(hopefully) get a few starts. This way they have a taste and the following year are ready to rock.

 

I’ve never understood the whole “get their feet wet” argument. These guys are professionals who have been playing baseball their entire lives. All of a sudden they get to the majors and play in front of bigger crowds and they forget how to pitch? Or they get so nervous they can’t have success but if they pitch out of the bullpen that isn’t an issue? We don’t need to baby these guys.

 

I honestly just think the Brewers as an organization have more faith in older, veteran guys even if they aren’t as good. They way Corbin Burnes is pitching I don’t see any reason not to let him start games if we need a starter. But they just won’t do it.

 

So you don't believe that different personalities/temperaments require different approaches to becoming Major League ready? Or are you just saying you only want one type of personality playing for your team?

[sveumrules]

I don't see how the Brewers inserting Burnes immediately into high leverage situations in the middle of a pennant race constitutes "baby"-ing him. The pressure in those situations is likely more intense than starting a game.

 

Last night with the bases loaded & no outs they had Burnes & Jennings ready. CC called the pitcher he thought would best help the team escape the jam, not the older veteran guy.

[paul253]

So you don't believe that different personalities/temperaments require different approaches to becoming Major League ready? Or are you just saying you only want one type of personality playing for your team

 

I’m saying I think it’s a little ridiculous to assume all of these starting pitchers the Brewers have put in the bullpen have had to go into the pen because their personality won’t allow them to succeed as a starter. This isn’t a personality thing. It’s strategy. And for whatever reason the Brewers strategy is to use their top starting pitching prospects as relievers. I don’t agree with it. I was fine with Hader because I thought he ended up in the pen anyway but I don’t see the reasoning behind starting Brent Suter and Aaron Wilkerson but putting Corbin Burnes and Brandon Woodruff in the bullpen. Meanwhile an actual reliever who’s has nothing but success, Nick Ramirez, has yet to get the call.

 

Last night with the bases loaded & no outs they had Burnes & Jennings ready. CC called the pitcher he thought would best help the team escape the jam, not the older veteran guy

 

Because the older veteran guy was a lefty. Had the batter been a lefty it would have been Jennings.

 

But even so that’s one situation. One situation doesn’t completely rule out the argument, particularly since the argument involves starting pitchers, not relievers.

[brewerswinNLcentral]

I like Burnes bc he pitches like a 5 year vet. Not a rookie. Last night he was going up against guys with .1000 OPS and he didn't budge. He threw fastballs for strikes in the middle of the strike zone. Not just painting the corner. Very impressed with him

[Austin Tatious]

Agreed. There are no guarantees, but I like that Stearns kept him off limits in trade talks.

[xisxisxis]

Each kid is different and I trust the parents and swim instructors know enough of each kid to understand what they will need to succeed. Some kids can be launched as soon as they graduate. Other kids need a life jacket for a bit.

 

I think you're right and the reason the brewers have been so unsuccessful in the past was because of an archaic belief that you treat them all the same and the ones who respond to being thrown in the deep end are the winners and those who struggle are the losers. Back in the days (when most of the "instructors" came up) the cost of prospects was small, grinding through a lot and wasting resources didn't cost much so an approach of sink or swim was fine...

 

It's good to see the Brewers tailoring the approach to the player because the investment today is huge that they make to the players they have, while the "accommodations" to each prospect to personalize their training/development is small...

[markedman5]

Here is as direct a quote as you get

 

Tom H twitter

 

#Brewers manager Craig Counsell said "100%" that Corbin Burnes will return to starting role next season. That's his future in organization. But will continue to serve in relief this season out of need.

[sveumrules]

I’m saying I think it’s a little ridiculous to assume all of these starting pitchers the Brewers have put in the bullpen have had to go into the pen because their personality won’t allow them to succeed as a starter.

 

I think that is a ridiculous assumption, also. Who is making it? The team has indicated the decision was made based on hopefully helping both the player's development & the team's success.

 

Also, ALL of these starting pitchers the Brewers have put in the bullpen = two guys, Hader & Burnes.

[justwinbaby]

Although after watching another poor inning from Suter I’m thinking we would be better off trying Burnes or at least Peralta the rest of the season in his spot. Suter can be just so frustratingly painful to watch.