Hader Tweets

[folly412]

Someone found 4 tweets from Jacob Nottingham in 2012 using the N word

 

And now his Twitter is deleted. It was in slang fashion and not on the level of Hader's, but just more reason they need to be doing a scrub of everyone in the organization (including minors).

[OldSchoolSnapper]

At least one of Nottingham's was a movie quote. Can't for sure say about the others, but they all sort of read that way. None of that matters as all N Words are created equal in the Twitter Bill of Rights.

[Thurston Fluff]

God I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was that age. The difference between me as a teenager and even a 20 year old was night and day. I told a lot of off color jokes that would embarrass me if they got out today. Never malicious, just trying to be funny and failing spectacularly. I hope his parents were monitoring his tweets, grounded him for it and explained why it was wrong. That is what happens to kids who say stupid things. What shouldn't happen is their future employers punishing them over it. Having them make sure the employee knows that won't be tolerated now is fine. I'm ok with MLB making him take some sensitivity training because it doesn't hurt to make sure he's formulated new beliefs as his experiences grew. I can't help but think working alongside such a diverse group of people as professional baseball has made him wise up either way. That said, some people do not change. He has no room for error here on out.

[FVBrewerFan]

Someone found 4 tweets from Jacob Nottingham in 2012 using the N word

 

And now his Twitter is deleted. It was in slang fashion and not on the level of Hader's, but just more reason they need to be doing a scrub of everyone in the organization (including minors).

 

I would rather shine a bright light on any hint of racism, instead of deleting it. But I know I'm in the "minority."

[MilwaukeeBeers]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I'm gonna leave this topic at that. Now back to baseball. We got a fun team. Lets make some noise.

[FVBrewerFan]

God I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was that age. The difference between me as a teenager and even a 20 year old was night and day. I told a lot of off color jokes that would embarrass me if they got out today. Never malicious, just trying to be funny and failing spectacularly. I hope his parents were monitoring his tweets, grounded him for it and explained why it was wrong. That is what happens to kids who say stupid things. What shouldn't happen is their future employers punishing them over it. Having them make sure the employee knows that won't be tolerated now is fine. I'm ok with MLB making him take some sensitivity training because it doesn't hurt to make sure he's formulated new beliefs as his experiences grew. I can't help but think working alongside such a diverse group of people as professional baseball has made him wise up either way. That said, some people do not change. He has no room for error here on out.

 

He should refuse to go through sensitivity training if he honestly doesn't have those beliefs anymore, or never had them. And I've been as hard on him as anyone, but how can you be trained to be sensitive if you already are?

[82brewcrew82]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

I'm gonna leave this topic at that. Now back to baseball. We got a fun team. Lets make some noise.

Exactly! Usually those with the highest level of piety that have the most to hide.

[torts]

God I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was that age. The difference between me as a teenager and even a 20 year old was night and day. I told a lot of off color jokes that would embarrass me if they got out today. Never malicious, just trying to be funny and failing spectacularly. I hope his parents were monitoring his tweets, grounded him for it and explained why it was wrong. That is what happens to kids who say stupid things. What shouldn't happen is their future employers punishing them over it. Having them make sure the employee knows that won't be tolerated now is fine. I'm ok with MLB making him take some sensitivity training because it doesn't hurt to make sure he's formulated new beliefs as his experiences grew. I can't help but think working alongside such a diverse group of people as professional baseball has made him wise up either way. That said, some people do not change. He has no room for error here on out.

 

He should refuse to go through sensitivity training if he honestly doesn't have those beliefs anymore, or never had them. And I've been as hard on him as anyone, but how can you be trained to be sensitive if you already are?

 

there is literally nothing wrong with reinforcing his changed behavior with more training. nothing.

[JimH5]

Maybe I'm reading this wrong but you seem to be contradicting yourself. You say you don't want him suspended for the tweets but rather that the tweets still exist and in the next breath you say you want him suspended for the tweets. I mean, causing a distraction isn't really a punishable offense here. This seems personal to you and hey, I get it. I'd hate to see what society would look like if we condemned every one that said something vile when they were 17.

 

It's a little old now, but I was just in the dentist's chair and couldn't respond.

 

My point was that I thought a suspension was justified because he stained the game by leaving a digital trail of hate speech on his Twitter account. He insulted people that MLB is targeting as customers.

 

That he didn't get suspended...that's up to MLB. I thought they would have been justified in doing so.

[Thurston Fluff]

God I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was that age. The difference between me as a teenager and even a 20 year old was night and day. I told a lot of off color jokes that would embarrass me if they got out today. Never malicious, just trying to be funny and failing spectacularly. I hope his parents were monitoring his tweets, grounded him for it and explained why it was wrong. That is what happens to kids who say stupid things. What shouldn't happen is their future employers punishing them over it. Having them make sure the employee knows that won't be tolerated now is fine. I'm ok with MLB making him take some sensitivity training because it doesn't hurt to make sure he's formulated new beliefs as his experiences grew. I can't help but think working alongside such a diverse group of people as professional baseball has made him wise up either way. That said, some people do not change. He has no room for error here on out.

 

He should refuse to go through sensitivity training if he honestly doesn't have those beliefs anymore, or never had them. And I've been as hard on him as anyone, but how can you be trained to be sensitive if you already are?

 

Even if he doesn't hold those beliefs anymore he has a responsibility to the organization to show it. Saying I don't need it because I'm not that way would send up a red flag if I was his employer.

[xisxisxis]

He should refuse to go through sensitivity training if he honestly doesn't have those beliefs anymore, or never had them. And I've been as hard on him as anyone, but how can you be trained to be sensitive if you already are?

 

I work for a corporation that has over 10,000 employees. I manage a small group. I have to take yearly and bi-yearly training for the same topics over and over again no matter how many times I've been perfect on testing the previous cycle. It's what corporate america does to cover their butts... Why so often? Because none of it is based on what is right, but it is based on what is LEGAL and court cases every year change what is legal... I can refuse to take the training because I already "know" it, but they then do things like freezing my budget and paycheck... So I have reasons to just go through with it as it isn't worth taking a stand against sexual harassment training as that is never a winning look... neither would be fighting against taking sensitivity training...

 

While the Brewers aren't anywhere near that large, as a company with revenues in excess of $100M, staff and managers should be required to go through some forms of training. Sensitivity training also evolves over time. There isn't a set of universals that is written in stone ...

[RobDeer 45]

Wow, this had to hit him like a ton of bricks last night. Bad outing and then you come in the locker room to a storm of reporters, asking you about things you wrote on twitter, which you probably don't specifically remember. Talk about getting thrown to the wolves. But he probably deserves that. I'm not going to defend him at all, because if you put something out there, you have to be prepared to answer to it someday. The problem is, when you're a kid, you don't get it. It was also at a time, if I had to guess, where twitter wasn't as prevalent. If I had to bet, it was mostly just some friends following him. I bet there weren't any parents following him. So it was conversation between friends in his mind. Kids just regurgitate stuff they hear, from songs, movies, friends etc, and post it online, trying to be cool or funny. Seems like a lot of slurs that get dug up are lyrics from rap songs. It's hard to say if deep down he's hateful of certain groups, or if he was just tweeting dumb stuff for a reaction. It doesn't make it ok, but it does give me hope that people can change. Maybe all that he needs to change is realizing what is ok to say and what is not. Or maybe it's deeper, and he needs to change some hateful feelings, which could be much harder to do.

 

Overall, I lost some respect for him. In my mind he was a quite kid that was becoming a star and was very humble. Now I look at him a little different. Depending on how he handles this mess that can change. I'm trying to wait and see before developing any strong feelings either way. I hope he comes out and is honest and open and then tries to better himself. If he does that, it would go along way. I'd hate to see the canned speech and the brewers making him do sensitivity training. Sit down with your teammates and hammer this out. Sit down with people in the community and talk about it.

 

I don't think he should be suspended by MLB. I think the Brewers could potentially do something that he agrees with, but seems like he shouldn't be given an official punishment for something he did in high school, and wasn't a crime. I could be wrong on that, but seems beyond the reach of the team and league.

[timpep]

Not trying to take away from the bad things Hader said, but I saw old tweets from Kyle Schwarber, Mike Trout and Whit Merrifield all dug up this morning with homophobic slurs

 

And it begins.

 

The witch hunt is now underway.

 

Good. Call it a witch hunt if you wish, but these are public people. If you've said homophobic or racist statements in the past nothing wrong with having to answer for it.

 

+1. I said dumb stuff when I was 17. I never said I hate gay people or any kkk white power crap.

[xisxisxis]

I said dumb stuff when I was 17. I never said I hate gay people or any kkk white power crap.

 

That's great, neither did I, but I'm the only one who's walked my path and everyone else has their own path to walk. I am not going to hold anyone to what I did or use what I did as the gold standard of how other people should act, even what I did is the universally accepted approach... a great quote from one of my favorite books (To Kill A Mockingbird):

 

“You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view…until you climb in his skin and walk around in it.”

 

It is applicable to people who are racists and gay haters and it is also applicable to those who wish to pass judgement...

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I said dumb stuff when I was 17. I never said I hate gay people or any kkk white power crap.

 

That's great, neither did I, but I'm the only one who's walked my path and everyone else has their own path to walk. I am not going to hold anyone to what I did or use what I did as the gold standard of how other people should act, even what I did is the universally accepted approach... a great quote from one of my favorite books (To Kill A Mockingbird):

 

“You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view…until you climb in his skin and walk around in it.”

 

It is applicable to people who are racists and gay haters and it is also applicable to those who wish to pass judgement...

 

 

For people who grew up in WI this may be hard to believe, but I didn't grow up in WI and went to a hispanic high school and racist banter and slang in the halls and locker rooms was commonplace. Sarcastic white power comments and words like cracker and worse were used all the time to "rib" friends and teammates. The stuff said to opponents during games was worse. If I'm being honest, that is what Hader's crap looks like to me. It's the same exact words and inflection. Nobody understood the weight of those words at the time, it was just stupid kids trying to be bad asses or attempt humor. Hader's audience at the time of those Tweets was exactly that. Likely friends and baseball teammates.

[wildcat83]

I commented in the IGT last night, and have not had time to fully read every post here, but a couple things jump out at me:

 

1). I worry about Josh as a person, I don’t want to crucify him over it. The comments were made at 17, which is much different than 13/14. I’m worried comments that deep at an age of 17 may be true beliefs. Maybe a product of his environment then, maybe not. His teammates, those who truely know him now, probably have the best gauge on it and their comments will be important. I hope it’s not who he is, but those were rough to read.

 

2). Lorenzo Cain is a true leader. One of the stories right after the game last night made a comment that Cain had already talked to Hader. If he went directly to Hader and had that talk that fast, shows to me what type of player/presence he is in our organization.

 

3). I posted this in the IGT but how those sat there unnoticed by Brewers personnel baffles me. In today’s age how does an organization not have a person responsible for monitoring players social media accounts. People say free speech, but that is NOT what free speech protects. If the Brewers tell a player to delete a post they feel could be detrimental to the team, the player deletes it, period, and that in no way violates free speech. More people dropped the ball on this than just Josh Hader.

[fondybrewfan]

Its going to be a long 2 days until baseball starts up again.

 

No matter what Hader does from this point people will still hate him. He could volunteer at Pride day and whatever else and people will still think he is some awful person based on what he said as a high school kid. Once the info is out there on the public domain there is no taking it back and he is judged forever. I hope he has changed but no one really knows for sure.

 

He said some pretty nasty stuff though; he really will need to go above and beyond just an apology to show sincerity.

[danzig6767]

From MLB.

 

thank God mlb has a brain. Unlike the nfl.

To me, whether Hader had received a short suspension or not is largely irrelevant for him at least.

 

Missing say 3-5 games had he been suspended would have quickly been over with after those 3-5 games, but his name/reputation will never be the same, which will hurt him far far more than missing few games would.

 

The same for having this happen on the night of his first All-Star appearance. Devastation and shame in a blink as this leaked out.

 

That devastation of what happened last night and going forward will haunt way more than any suspension could.

[timpep]

I said dumb stuff when I was 17. I never said I hate gay people or any kkk white power crap.

 

That's great, neither did I, but I'm the only one who's walked my path and everyone else has their own path to walk. I am not going to hold anyone to what I did or use what I did as the gold standard of how other people should act, even what I did is the universally accepted approach... a great quote from one of my favorite books (To Kill A Mockingbird):

 

“You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view…until you climb in his skin and walk around in it.”

 

It is applicable to people who are racists and gay haters and it is also applicable to those who wish to pass judgement...

 

I'm not passing judgement. I'm agreeing that he needs to answer for his actions, and that they aren't things that just every stupid kid says.

When his response was that "at that age you just say what's on your mind" and 30 seconds later says nothing he believes is different then when he was 17 he still needs to explain himself better.

 

I also think there is a big difference between "locker room talk" and publicly saying it on a forum that everyone can see. Movie quotes or song lyrics are easily explained away. Kkk, white power, and I hate gay people need a little more for me explanation for me to see his point of view.

 

I feel had for Josh Hader the person. I really do. I also want to be able to cheer for something I'm proud of once in a while.

[MadScientist]

God I'm glad twitter wasn't around when I was that age. The difference between me as a teenager and even a 20 year old was night and day. I told a lot of off color jokes that would embarrass me if they got out today. Never malicious, just trying to be funny and failing spectacularly. I hope his parents were monitoring his tweets, grounded him for it and explained why it was wrong. That is what happens to kids who say stupid things. What shouldn't happen is their future employers punishing them over it. Having them make sure the employee knows that won't be tolerated now is fine. I'm ok with MLB making him take some sensitivity training because it doesn't hurt to make sure he's formulated new beliefs as his experiences grew. I can't help but think working alongside such a diverse group of people as professional baseball has made him wise up either way. That said, some people do not change. He has no room for error here on out.

 

He should refuse to go through sensitivity training if he honestly doesn't have those beliefs anymore, or never had them. And I've been as hard on him as anyone, but how can you be trained to be sensitive if you already are?

 

Even if he doesn't hold those beliefs anymore he has a responsibility to the organization to show it. Saying I don't need it because I'm not that way would send up a red flag if I was his employer.

 

Also, even if he has grown and improved his mind, there may be many things (thoughts or actions) that are racially tinged in subtle ways that he is unaware of. Sensitivity training could help make him more aware of such things and help him become a better person. I hope he embraces it as an opportunity to improve himself and not just a punishment he must endure.

[torts]

totally agree, MadScientist.

[Brewermania101]

I don’t know if this has been said, but this is not going to look good from the rest of baseball fans in the country looking in. If I wasn’t a Brewer fan I would be thinking I want that team to lose They have a cheater ( Braun) and a rasict on the same team. I mean I can see the signs now instead of haderade it’s haterade etc,

 

I know many may say I don’t care what others think but it has effects on sales and merchandise out side of our region or maybe If a free agent player will sign here or not or a front office person takes the job. When you put on the Brewers jersey you are representing the organization whether it’s right or wrong just like we represent our company that we work for in our everyday life by our actions. An example if we met a person that worked for Enron. Even if that person had nothing to do with what went on there they still may receive a stigma that many in the population would put on that person.

 

My heart goes out to Josh Hader, I know he is hurting and as a person of faith. I hope many that he hurt will forgive him like we all deserve to be forgiven. I hope the clubhouse rallies around him if this truly not the person he is anymore.

[FVBrewerFan]

He should refuse to go through sensitivity training if he honestly doesn't have those beliefs anymore, or never had them. And I've been as hard on him as anyone, but how can you be trained to be sensitive if you already are?

 

I work for a corporation that has over 10,000 employees. I manage a small group. I have to take yearly and bi-yearly training for the same topics over and over again no matter how many times I've been perfect on testing the previous cycle. It's what corporate america does to cover their butts... Why so often? Because none of it is based on what is right, but it is based on what is LEGAL and court cases every year change what is legal... I can refuse to take the training because I already "know" it, but they then do things like freezing my budget and paycheck... So I have reasons to just go through with it as it isn't worth taking a stand against sexual harassment training as that is never a winning look... neither would be fighting against taking sensitivity training...

 

While the Brewers aren't anywhere near that large, as a company with revenues in excess of $100M, staff and managers should be required to go through some forms of training. Sensitivity training also evolves over time. There isn't a set of universals that is written in stone ...

 

Yea, I know he can't turn down the sensitivity training, just wish he did because it's stupid. Yes, our company has training every year too, and I learn nothing, and nothing is reinforced. I've been around plenty long enough to know what not to say or do in the workplace. I'm sure some could use it, so I don't really care we have it every year.

[DocLuna7]

 

Stop trying to ruin people's lives for being a dumb kid at one time. It isn't okay.

 

 

It isn't okay for someone to say the things that Hader said.

 

Put yourself in the shoes of the minority or gay 17 year old "kids" that read his posts.

 

Disgraceful and unacceptable.

 

I don't think that anyone is arguing that it's ok to say the things that he did. I do however think that there is ample room for forgiveness and moving on from these original tweets. Hader made these remarks before he was under contract with any professional baseball team and it probably isn't even allowed under MLBPA rules to discipline him for something he did before he even agreed to abide by any sort of professional codes of conduct. His voluntary participation in sensitivity training is a good sign for his current maturity level.

 

And while I will be the first to point out that these comments are really bad, I don't think that it's the job of MLB to go back and sanitize players' social media from before they were even signed (or adults). I guess one other (probably unpopular) viewpoint I definitely have is that I don't look at MLB players as heroes or role models of any type. Without trying to sound callous I care way more about what someone does on the field then what they do in their off-field lives. And though I do think that there is a role for discipline for a current player who says something like this I simply cannot for the life of me understand why we really care at all what a guy does or says off the field when everyone can exercise their own free speech rights to combat the words being spoken or typed. Racism and homophobia are pretty asinine viewpoints to hold and I think reasonable people would simply see these comments for what they are- idiotic and not based on logic. MLB intervening doesn't change that one way or the other.

[Ennder]

I'd say it is 50/50 whether he actually had any negative intent behind those posts or was just screwing around and being dumb online. I see it all the time with kids that age though not usually in such a public spot, they are usually smart enough not to be that public with it. Yes it is pretty embarrassing for him that he never thought to go delete that as he grew older though. This all makes him look like a moron more than anything else.

 

Also there is nothing wrong with him doing the sensitivity training. If he doesn't need it he can just make it a positive and share his experiences with others who do need it as to why he has changed. Or he can even share why he said dumb stuff he didn't believe in when he was young if that is what happened. As long as he is treating it as a positive someone will get something useful out of it.