Hader Tweets

[82brewcrew82]

From MLB.

 

This is the right call.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

No suspension is a frigging win! After the week the brew crew just had I’ll take it!

[tmwiese55]

IDK what they'll do as a PR move, but one thing that popped in my head is the Isiah THomas/Larry Bird news conference back in the 80s after Thomas and Rodman basically said Bird wasn't any good and was only hyped because he was white. Like a news conference with Hader and several black and latino players while he gives a real explanation and those folks kind of vouching for him. After that just keep your head down and play the game. For a suspension, I just don't see how they can really do it within the rules. I'd guess the 'punishment' will be some sensitivity training, charity and volunteer work.

 

ETA: turns out I called the punishment one a bit before it came out.

[Patrick425]

It's a reasonable concept that he has no recollection of some moronic Tweets from high school when he wasn't on the world's stage. FB shares memories with me that make me cringe and I delete them. Rambling of crap I can't believe I put out for others to see in 2008, 2009.

 

Yes it's a reasonable concept, but I'm guessing you are not in a high profile position where people pay to watch you work, millions of people follow the profession you are in very closely, and the media reports on the result of your work. If you are in that position, isn't it reasonable to think you would not wait for Facebook or twitter to remind you of things you said that you may have forgotten about?

 

The point is that I don't remember them. Not until Facebook shows them to me. Zero recollection of them at all. I can't delete stuff when I don't know I said it.

 

You can't go back and look through your Facebook history without being reminded? My point was that you probably are not in a position that you really need to go through the hassle of doing that. Professional athletes, celebrities, others in the public eye are.

[Brewer Fever]

I have a close friend who's father was killed in the Oak Creek Sikh Temple shootings. He's now best friends and works closely with a former KKK white supremacist. The latter has now completely turned his life around and now speaks out against hate and bigotry. People say and do stupid things, especially at a young age. People change.

 

Those here who demand Hader pay a bigger price that what he did last night are completely dismissing the possibility that he is a dramatically different person at 24 than he was at 17. The reality is, most people are.

 

 

I'm guessing that if the former kkk white supremacist had posted things in social media in the past he has since gone back and deleted them or cancelled the account. This may have been a simple case by Hader of just not ever thinking about those old tweets and so never thinking about going out and deleting them, but it's still careless. Unfortunately, no matter what kind of person you are, you have to pay for being careless sometimes.

 

Wow, now we're equating carelessness in covering up of old Tweets to actual vocal and physical actions of a white supremacist. A white supremacist who openly admitted to randomly beating African Americans for no reason other than the color of their skin. But you're sure that the former KKK deleted his old Tweets, so since he wasn't careless about covering his tracks on social media, and Hader was careless, we need Hader's blood!

 

Let's get some perspective here people.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I think the expectation that a person go back through their social media profile 10 years and delete anything that might be deemed offensive says more about our culture today than it does about any individual.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I beg to differ. I would say the vast majority of suspensions occur because the subject did something moronic.

True, but you can't say I'm not suspending you be because you did the moronic thing, but rather because it was moronic to not cover it up. If he gets suspended it is gong to be directly because of tweets he made as a 17 year old seven years ago. Not because he was a moron and didn't delete them.

 

It is hate speech that was visible on a public profile attributed and owned by Josh Hader. He admitted that he made the tweets. It really doesn't matter when he did it with there is a very public paper trail. That's why he'll likely face discipline. Unfortunately there isn't really a statute of limitations when it comes to the court of public opinion.

 

As a Brewer fan, I would hate to see him suspended. Heck, he is arguably the MVP of the team so far. But, in the interest of PR and putting this behind them, it would probably be in the team's best interest to levy some sort of discipline on him.

[82brewcrew82]

You can't go back and look through your Facebook history without being reminded? My point was that you probably are not in a position that you really need to go through the hassle of doing that. Professional athletes, celebrities, others in the public eye are.

Why does that matter? Still human beings and if it's wrong then it's wrong.

[FVBrewerFan]

Not trying to take away from the bad things Hader said, but I saw old tweets from Kyle Schwarber, Mike Trout and Whit Merrifield all dug up this morning with homophobic slurs

 

And it begins.

 

The witch hunt is now underway.

 

Good. Call it a witch hunt if you wish, but these are public people. If you've said homophobic or racist statements in the past nothing wrong with having to answer for it.

[KeithStone53151]

I think the expectation that a person go back through their social media profile 10 years and delete anything that might be deemed offensive says more about our culture today than it does about any individual.

 

+1

[Chicago Here]

From MLB.

 

thank God mlb has a brain. Unlike the nfl.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I beg to differ. I would say the vast majority of suspensions occur because the subject did something moronic.

True, but you can't say I'm not suspending you be because you did the moronic thing, but rather because it was moronic to not cover it up. If he gets suspended it is gong to be directly because of tweets he made as a 17 year old seven years ago. Not because he was a moron and didn't delete them.

 

It is hate speech that was visible on a public profile attributed and owned by Josh Hader. He admitted that he made the tweets. It really doesn't matter when he did it with there is a very public paper trail. That's why he'll likely face discipline. Unfortunately there isn't really a statute of limitations when it comes to the court of public opinion.

 

As a Brewer fan, I would hate to see him suspended. Heck, he is arguably the MVP of the team so far. But, in the interest of PR and putting this behind them, it would probably be in the team's best interest to levy some sort of discipline on him.

 

 

I think more people would find a suspension laughable than a means of accountability. The diversity training stuff is expected and the proper response. At least then it's some form of possibly productive discipline.

 

Sitting him for 5 games which really amounts to 1 game is a silly waste of everyone's time, and again, sets an unrealistic precedent. There's no clear line on what you can suspend a player for then.

[MilwaukeeBeers]

Not trying to take away from the bad things Hader said, but I saw old tweets from Kyle Schwarber, Mike Trout and Whit Merrifield all dug up this morning with homophobic slurs

 

And it begins.

 

The witch hunt is now underway.

 

Good. Call it a witch hunt if you wish, but these are public people. If you've said homophobic or racist statements in the past nothing wrong with having to answer for it.

I think it’s quite ignorant to believe comments of the past reflect present character. People are constantly evolving, changing, and maturing. Call me crazy, but things I said 7 years ago don’t reflect my current mindset. 7 years ago I thought nickelback was a decent band...

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I wish I could combine all of these posts into a giant ball of complicated feelings.

 

Part of me wants to take Hader at face value and really believe this was a stupid mistake that doesn't represent who he is now, and that part feels, well, not quite bad for him but ashamed and apologetic for him. Sad that a whole bunch of people will turn him into a joke forever because that is how the internet works, and nothing he can ever do will be good enough for them, and he'll always be morally bankrupt. Part of me hates that aspect of this, the twitter culture that washes away all nuance and all thought beyond the reflexive.

 

Another part is angry and embittered. I want this team we attach ourselves to so deeply to be more than just a fun baseball team. I want it to be aligned with values I can support, and I do not want to make the Aroldis Chapman move, on field results be damned. This part thinks Josh deserves whatever he gets and even hopes it is a suspension, even one beyond a symbolic one or two day one that would occur when he wasn't available anyway because 17 or not, there is no excuse for a lot of the things he said.

 

There's the part that worries about the on-field impact of this too and then feels bad about it. Because, as someone put it in the ASG thread, caring about baseball games more than their larger social significance is disturbing.

 

The most important part, though, maybe and to me, is the part that wants Josh and the team to deal with this head-on and not content themselves with boilerplate, PR responses like "I was a child" and "It was 7 years ago." This part thinks sports lag behind other areas of society in the prevalence of misogynist and homophobic attitudes and hopes the Brewers and Josh speak out about this. When I was a freshman in college, the first speaker we heard was former NFL and Syracuse QB Don McPherson. I vividly remember him speaking to our all-male audience about the prevalence of "calling a man out" by using a gay slur or referencing female anatomy. I remember him talking about how destructive this language could be and how much language creates culture and attitudes. He was right. And Josh was/is a part of creating that culture and maybe also a victim of it in the sense that someone made him feel like those tweets were okay, and that's more than just a personal failure. This part of me hopes, really hopes, that Josh becomes another Don McPherson and fans take some time to reflect on why so many male athletes make these kinds of social media statements as young people. Because sometimes the best change comes about because of those who screwed up publicly and from our own willingness to recognize that we said these things too, maybe in a closed locker room, but still. And isn't that just as bad? Worse, maybe? This part of me flashes back to comments I made without thinking, and the power of words means they weren't consequence-free.

 

You're right, Josh. No excuses. Don't make any. Be honest and process this and talk about why you said this stuff. As another poster said, open your account back up and go through one by one if you have to. It will make people angry. But it's the right thing to do if you have changed. Run from what these tweets represent, but don't run from why you said them, what it meant, and how you impacted yourself and others by putting them out there.

 

Maybe that is asking too much from a pro athlete, but I hope not.

[clancyphile]

I think the expectation that a person go back through their social media profile 10 years and delete anything that might be deemed offensive says more about our culture today than it does about any individual.

 

Agreed. I'm in general agreement with Lorenzo Cain's comments on Hader.

 

We all say and do stupid things at times. Hader's stupidity then was pretty embarrassing, and in this case, MLB's actions fit the "crime" of him being 17 and stupid and not using his brain.

 

Some stupidity can be worse. Last year, my cousin's wife got killed on her way home from visiting her twin daughters in the hospital (they had been born quite prematurely, and it had been a high-risk pregnancy) by a person who made the stupid choice to drive while intoxicated.

 

So, let's just keep this in perspective.

[TJH123]

Someone found 4 tweets from Jacob Nottingham in 2012 using the N word

[Chicago Here]

im going to support Josh Hader, who learned from the error of his ways. Ordered a Hader jersey!

[torts]

I wish Twitter wouldn't let you delete anything. If you put it out in the public, and 8 years later someone finds it, you should have to explain yourself, regardless if you have changed or not. Just because you stop tweeting it doesn't necessarily mean that you no longer believe those things. Trout, Schwarber, Hader, etc., they all seem like nice guys, but thats because they KNOW the camera is on them right now. No one on here knows these guys in person, so we all rely on the public persona they display. If we find out they were terrible people in the past, they should have to explain themselves.

[homer]

From MLB.

 

thank God mlb has a brain. Unlike the nfl.

 

 

What did the NFL do to Josh Allen?

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I wish Twitter wouldn't let you delete anything. If you put it out in the public, and 8 years later someone finds it, you should have to explain yourself, regardless if you have changed or not. Just because you stop tweeting it doesn't necessarily mean that you no longer believe those things. Trout, Schwarber, Hader, etc., they all seem like nice guys, but thats because they KNOW the camera is on them right now. No one on here knows these guys in person, so we all rely on the public persona they display. If we find out they were terrible people in the past, they should have to explain themselves.

 

Yes. Every person should have to explain every flash in the pan from high school. I should have to answer for why I lit a flaming bag of dog poo on fire sophomore year or pulling Jenny's bra strap in the hallway in 8th grade. I can't believe there are people who want to go down this road.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

From MLB.

 

thank God mlb has a brain. Unlike the nfl.

 

 

What did the NFL do to Josh Allen?

 

That stuff came out before the draft, so I don't think they could do much about it.

[torts]

I wish Twitter wouldn't let you delete anything. If you put it out in the public, and 8 years later someone finds it, you should have to explain yourself, regardless if you have changed or not. Just because you stop tweeting it doesn't necessarily mean that you no longer believe those things. Trout, Schwarber, Hader, etc., they all seem like nice guys, but thats because they KNOW the camera is on them right now. No one on here knows these guys in person, so we all rely on the public persona they display. If we find out they were terrible people in the past, they should have to explain themselves.

 

Yes. Every person should have to explain every flash in the pan from high school. I should have to answer for why I lit a flaming bag of dog poo on fire sophomore year or pulling Jenny's bra strap in the hallway in 8th grade. I can't believe there are people who want to go down this road.

 

I can't believe you're trying to compare racism/sexism/homophobia to adam sandler jokes but here we are

[xisxisxis]

maybe torts is short for Torquemada The Spaniard....

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I wish Twitter wouldn't let you delete anything. If you put it out in the public, and 8 years later someone finds it, you should have to explain yourself, regardless if you have changed or not. Just because you stop tweeting it doesn't necessarily mean that you no longer believe those things. Trout, Schwarber, Hader, etc., they all seem like nice guys, but thats because they KNOW the camera is on them right now. No one on here knows these guys in person, so we all rely on the public persona they display. If we find out they were terrible people in the past, they should have to explain themselves.

 

Yes. Every person should have to explain every flash in the pan from high school. I should have to answer for why I lit a flaming bag of dog poo on fire sophomore year or pulling Jenny's bra strap in the hallway in 8th grade. I can't believe there are people who want to go down this road.

 

I can't believe you're trying to compare racism/sexism/homophobia to adam sandler jokes but here we are

 

Here it is. This social media pitchforking movement thats drives me up the wall. You throw around every "ism" word you can get your brain around and context be damned, you've made up your mind. I like how the persona you've seen for years is suddenly moot because you found some Tweets from 6, 7, 8 years ago. When something sophomore pops up, you climb atop your pedestal to let everyone know what a morally pure person you are.

 

In reality, actual racism in 2018 is veiled and much more harmful than a bunch of inflammatory tweets. It's a gay guy denied for a job under false reasoning, or a black man denied a housing application because his landlord doesn't want that type in the building because they're always late on rent.

 

That's the type of thing our society would actually benefit from rallying around and putting a stop to. Instead, we're going to continue with nonsense headline-grabbing crap like this. We'll make up our minds about who Josh Hader is from some stuff he Tweeted in high school and have at it.

[Cool Hand Lucroy]

I wish Twitter wouldn't let you delete anything. If you put it out in the public, and 8 years later someone finds it, you should have to explain yourself, regardless if you have changed or not. Just because you stop tweeting it doesn't necessarily mean that you no longer believe those things. Trout, Schwarber, Hader, etc., they all seem like nice guys, but thats because they KNOW the camera is on them right now. No one on here knows these guys in person, so we all rely on the public persona they display. If we find out they were terrible people in the past, they should have to explain themselves.

 

Yes. Every person should have to explain every flash in the pan from high school. I should have to answer for why I lit a flaming bag of dog poo on fire sophomore year or pulling Jenny's bra strap in the hallway in 8th grade. I can't believe there are people who want to go down this road.

 

It isn't that I want people to answer for every dumb thing. And, yeah, the examples you mention are "small." I do think it's important, though, that people recognize that "small" things added up create attitudes and ideas. Snapping Jenny's bra step is a tiny act of harrasment, same as flicking a nerd's ear or giving a wedgie, and you should have to confront it. Not with condemnation but with acknowledgment. Clearly, no one told Josh, "Dude, this stuff is bad...stop." That is a problem, and it's the collective fault of those around him and his own fault. I am not asking to relitigate all this publicly, but there should be personal reflection on it, and maybe the athletes that get adulation need to face more public reaction (if not punishment).

 

Edit: I actually agree that "pitchforking" someone, as Snapper put it, sucks and is pretty unproductive. But there does need to be a conversation around this, and Josh does need to feel bad about it. He cannot just dismiss it because that is part of how it keeps being okay. If it takes people overexplaining to make us rethink common usage of homophobic, sexist, and racist language, I am in for lots of overexplaining. And, yeah, racism and sexism are veiled, and I happen to think the language we use is a part of how we veil it. If it becomes normal to refer to women as hoes, isn't it harder to see them as anything but?