Manny Machado (Part 2)

[badger3034]

No matter if a team is a one year wonder or built for the long term, you still have to sell out to win. The Cubs sold out for Chapman. The Astros sold out for Verlander. Stearns hasn't proved he has the stones to do it

 

I would classify Yelich and Cain as "sell out" moves.

 

I guess I prefer to wait until Aug. 1 to judge Stern's performance during this season. He's made some nice depth moves grabbing Saladino and Miller.

 

Thus far, I wouldn't consider yelich a sell out move. Brinson is playing poorly and you probably wouldn't have seen any of the other players in the bigs for a few years. We have a lot of depth in the minors to afford that.

 

Cain was just money, that is never a sell out move. If an owner is willing to pony up some cash, that's always a positive in my opinion for a good baseball player, especially with the way cain has played this year.

 

Giving up hiura, Peralta or Burnes would've sucked. Badly.

[Jenkins5]

Stearns will sell out to win....when it comes with some years of control.

[82brewcrew82]

Stearns will sell out to win....when it comes with some years of control.

Exactly.

[TURBO]

I think it actually took BIG GIGANTIC ENORMOUS stones not to give up our future for Machado.

 

It would have been easy to give the O's what they wanted. A lot harder to stick to your guns in this situation.

 

Stearns has very large stones imo.

[82brewcrew82]

I think it actually took BIG GIGANTIC ENORMOUS stones not to give up our future for Machado.

 

It would have been easy to give the O's what they wanted. A lot harder to stick to your guns in this situation.

 

Stearns has very large stones imo.

Another really good point.

[Jenkins5]

No matter if a team is a one year wonder or built for the long term, you still have to sell out to win. The Cubs sold out for Chapman. The Astros sold out for Verlander. Stearns hasn't proved he has the stones to do it

 

I would classify Yelich and Cain as "sell out" moves.

 

I guess I prefer to wait until Aug. 1 to judge Stern's performance during this season. He's made some nice depth moves grabbing Saladino and Miller.

 

Thus far, I wouldn't consider yelich a sell out move. Brinson is playing poorly and you probably wouldn't have seen any of the other players in the bigs for a few years. We have a lot of depth in the minors to afford that.

 

Cain was just money, that is never a sell out move. If an owner is willing to pony up some cash, that's always a positive in my opinion for a good baseball player, especially with the way cain has played this year.

 

Giving up hiura, Peralta or Burnes would've sucked. Badly.

 

I’d disagree with not being sellout moves but get what your saying.

 

Cain was the largest FA contract in Brewer history and whether we like it or not, in our market, it is not as easy as just Mark saying here is my checkbook. Guy made his millions by being brilliant at managing and investing money. He knows with the market size what is realistic & what will put team in trouble.

 

Doesn’t matter how the players in Yelich trade are playing now.... at time, Brinson was MLB ready CF who was top 15 Prospect in all Milb with all-star potential. Harrison was coming off monster season & AFL and had as much helium as any prospect in baseball entering AA. Diaz was entering AA and like entire roster struggled a bit in Carolina but had a bat scouts love & just barrels balls. Yamomoto not huge loss since Barrie’s a bit but good pitcher. That was a lot to give up! That was 3 Top 10 prospects & Top 100 prospects. That’s selling out to me.

[Brewcrewin07]

Here's the thing..since none of us know what DS's offer was, what if it turned out he wasn't willing to budge on including say..Orlando Arcia? What if the Orioles never expected Burnes to begin with and offered something like Peralta, Ortiz and Philips and stood firm there and the Orioles kept asking for Arcia and they had a deal and DS wouldn't budge? How would you feel if 5 years down the road when Arcia is a lifetime .240 hitter in MLB and the Brewers haven't made the playoffs in any of those years and word leaks out that had the Brewers just given them Arcia they could have had Manny? I know how I would feel.My point is what if DS was being so stubborn that the Orioles wanted another player that wasn't necessarily a top-shelf player for the Brewers but he was so stubborn he wouldn't give that player up to push the deal over the finish line?

[pacopete4]

Only one way to find out you guys. Stearns will have to reveal his “stones” at this years Winter Fan Fest. Settle this thing once and for all.

[TURBO]

Peralta, Ortiz and Phillips are too much for a 2 month rental. Sub Arcia in there for Phillips, still way too much.

 

Your point is lost.

[Jenkins5]

I think it actually took BIG GIGANTIC ENORMOUS stones not to give up our future for Machado.

 

It would have been easy to give the O's what they wanted. A lot harder to stick to your guns in this situation.

 

Stearns has very large stones imo.

 

Brilliantly put! The fact he was attacking top bat in trade market & just fell in a close 2nd in pretty competitive race shows he has the stones to go after it & stones to stick to what he believes is the true value.

[reillymcshane]

I am going to ask people to stop with the name calling and personal attacks.

 

If you can't help yourself, walk away from the computer. It's that simple.

 

Thank you.

[Fear The Chorizo]

I had always assumed the Dodgers were going to eventually land Machado following Seager's injury - I had been cautiously optimistic they were going to scuffle long enough to potentially scrap those plans to upgrade at SS, but they got healthy and hot at the right time for their management to give up a higher-valued prospect than what the Brewers would've been comfortable doing for a rental.

 

That all being said, had this trade gone down ~10 days ago and the Brewers lost out, I'd all but guarantee many more on this board would be very disappointed - that 1-7 road trip against the Marlins and Pirates really sucked the helium from this team's 2018 outlook. Having to face the Dodgers 7 times right after they pick up Machado is going to be rough. But, the last week of Brewer baseball actually took me away from wanting them to go after Manny as hard as other teams were obviously doing. Nelson's slow recovery, IMO, sealed the deal for DS to not get nuts dealing prospects for Machado - because realistically, this team needs both an impact bat at one of their offensive holes (SS, C) AND 2 quality starters capable of carrying a team if they were going to hold off a reasonably healthy Cubs squad let alone do any kind of playoff damage this year. A healthy Nelson would have been one of those starters. Not having him left too many holes requiring too much in prospect capital for the Brewers to "sell out" without remortgaging future seasons that their two key offseason acquisitions (Cain & Yelich) will still be around for.

 

I still think they'll make a few moves that will have a positive impact on this year's squad, and I expect them to hang around the division lead and wild card contention down to the wire again, simply because they seem to find enough ways to win games despite how frustrating they are at times. I'm looking forward to seeing how Burnes, Peralta, and Woodruff are used, keeping fingers crossed Davies finds a way to provide a rotation lift, and hold out hope the offense finds a way to get on a sustained role to match preseason expectations.

[Jenkins5]

Here's the thing..since none of us know what DS's offer was, what if it turned out he wasn't willing to budge on including say..Orlando Arcia? What if the Orioles never expected Burnes to begin with and offered something like Peralta, Ortiz and Philips and stood firm there and the Orioles kept asking for Arcia and they had a deal and DS wouldn't budge? How would you feel if 5 years down the road when Arcia is a lifetime .240 hitter in MLB and the Brewers haven't made the playoffs in any of those years and word leaks out that had the Brewers just given them Arcia they could have had Manny? I know how I would feel.My point is what if DS was being so stubborn that the Orioles wanted another player that wasn't necessarily a top-shelf player for the Brewers but he was so stubborn he wouldn't give that player up to push the deal over the finish line?

 

.240 hitter with 3-4 gold gloves. I’m okay with that. Saying we could have had Machado instead is misleading because we would have only had him for 2 months. Arcia also hit .275 with 15 HRs at 22 with incredible, run saving defense after he was a top 10 prospect in baseball. He was awful this year at 23, yes, but still has a ton of potential. Look no further than Segura when you give up on a young kid who struggles.

 

My big questions for you are:

What makes you think that this is our last year to compete? We were here last year, again this year. Each off-season we have made more moves to improve. Our entire roster is under control with most of our top prospects knocking on the door... why was Machado it for us to compete again? What will cause this team (who is also missing there top pitcher all season) to get worse?

 

Why is Machado the only trade we could possibly make to improve this team & push us over? Is there honestly not a single player available who could impact our team majorly before deadline?

 

Machado is really good player, outstanding actually but two months of him will not be something I look back at as a mistake we didn’t get done that will haunt our future. He has zero positive impact on us moving past this season. We were just 18 games over without him before awful spell. We are building a darn good team. I just don’t get how you don’t see any of that and believe Machado was our last hope to ever make playoffs again....

[trwi7]

Here's the thing..since none of us know what DS's offer was, what if it turned out he wasn't willing to budge on including say..Orlando Arcia? What if the Orioles never expected Burnes to begin with and offered something like Peralta, Ortiz and Philips and stood firm there and the Orioles kept asking for Arcia and they had a deal and DS wouldn't budge? How would you feel if 5 years down the road when Arcia is a lifetime .240 hitter in MLB and the Brewers haven't made the playoffs in any of those years and word leaks out that had the Brewers just given them Arcia they could have had Manny? I know how I would feel.My point is what if DS was being so stubborn that the Orioles wanted another player that wasn't necessarily a top-shelf player for the Brewers but he was so stubborn he wouldn't give that player up to push the deal over the finish line?

 

I like how you offer one scenario about one player. What if Peralta and Ortiz are mid rotation starters for us? What if we traded Phillips along with a couple of other prospects for a player that's under control longer?

[MadThinker88]

Brilliantly put! The fact he was attacking top bat in trade market & just fell in a close 2nd in pretty competitive race shows he has the stones to go after it & stones to stick to what he believes is the true value.

 

Excuse me, how do we know the Brewers offer had them in a close 2nd place??

Last I heard, Philly was the front-runner to land Machado on Monday until LA increased it offer..

 

IMHO its clear the Brewers were in on the negotiations and made a "solid" offer to Baltimore. That said unless all the various offers are listed for public review or the Orioles come out and say that unless LA 'did x' the deal would have been with Milwaukee, I don't buy the Brewers were a close 2nd.

[pacopete4]

Brilliantly put! The fact he was attacking top bat in trade market & just fell in a close 2nd in pretty competitive race shows he has the stones to go after it & stones to stick to what he believes is the true value.

 

Excuse me, how do we know the Brewers offer had them in a close 2nd place??

Last I heard, Philly was the front-runner to land Machado on Monday until LA increased it offer..

 

IMHO its clear the Brewers were in on the negotiations and made a "solid" offer to Baltimore. That said unless all the various offers are listed for public review or the Orioles come out and say that unless LA 'did x' the deal would have been with Milwaukee, I don't buy the Brewers were a close 2nd.

 

You buy one report but not another saying we were a close second. Got it.

[Jenkins5]

Brilliantly put! The fact he was attacking top bat in trade market & just fell in a close 2nd in pretty competitive race shows he has the stones to go after it & stones to stick to what he believes is the true value.

 

Excuse me, how do we know the Brewers offer had them in a close 2nd place??

Last I heard, Philly was the front-runner to land Machado on Monday until LA increased it offer..

 

IMHO its clear the Brewers were in on the negotiations and made a "solid" offer to Baltimore. That said unless all the various offers are listed for public review or the Orioles come out and say that unless LA 'did x' the deal would have been with Milwaukee, I don't buy the Brewers were a close 2nd.

 

Nightengale tweeted it earlier. He is usually pretty good imo. I’m not wasting my time to go back and repost it, its on here multiple times, on twitter, on bleacher report Brewer feed. Believe it or don’t. Twitter rumors are twitter rumors. Maybe his sources are wrong but we do know Brewers where right there whole time. Never dropped out. End of day, no Machado.... we know Burnes wasn’t going anywhere. Everything else is merely speculation.

[jvrocksaz]

Is it too late to offer up Josh Hader? Ugh...

[And That]

I would kindly ask everyone to cease any mentions of David Stearns’ “stones” - which is a sentence I never foresaw myself typing.

[brooks_quichenick]

Is it too late to offer up Josh Hader? Ugh...

[JohnBriggs12]

I think it actually took BIG GIGANTIC ENORMOUS stones not to give up our future for Machado.

 

It would have been easy to give the O's what they wanted. A lot harder to stick to your guns in this situation.

 

Stearns has very large stones imo.

 

Brilliantly put! The fact he was attacking top bat in trade market & just fell in a close 2nd in pretty competitive race shows he has the stones to go after it & stones to stick to what he believes is the true value.

 

No, all it shows is that he thrives on getting praise for getting close. "I'm trying really, really hard" doesn't cut it. The team will be out of it after they get blasted by the Dodgers the next couple weeks.

[adambr2]

Yes, that's it. He puts in all the work, all the due diligence, sends scouts, puts analytic teams on it, all so at the end of the day he can be praised by fans and press for almost landing a big name.

 

Come on Briggs, you know better than this.

[Eye Black]

From MLB Pipeline:

 

The #Orioles will reportedly receive Yusniel Diaz (#Dodgers⁠ ⁠ No. 4), Dustin May (No. 10) and Errol Robinson (No. 18) from the @Dodgers in exchange for Manny Machado: https://atmlb.com/2mvuj3v

 

 

Still just speculation and some have since expressed considerable surprise that both Yusniel Diaz and Dustin May would be included.

 

In Baseball Prospectus’ “The Midseason Top 50” they have Diaz ranked at #31 and May ranked at #37 in all of baseball.

 

If that ends up being true I am not sure how the Brewers could have beaten that offer short of including Keston Hiura.

[adambr2]

From MLB Pipeline:

 

The #Orioles will reportedly receive Yusniel Diaz (#Dodgers⁠ ⁠ No. 4), Dustin May (No. 10) and Errol Robinson (No. 18) from the @Dodgers in exchange for Manny Machado: https://atmlb.com/2mvuj3v

 

 

Still just speculation and some have since expressed considerable surprise that both Yusniel Diaz and Dustin May would be included.

 

In Baseball Prospectus’ “The Midseason Top 50” they have Diaz ranked at #31 and May ranked at #37 in all of baseball.

 

If that ends up being true I am not sure how the Brewers could have beaten that offer short of including Keston Hiura.

 

Agreed, it appears it would have taken Hiura to land Machado, and I'd like to see the people so angry at David Stearns right now try to justify how that would have in any way have been a good decision.

[Eye Black]

No, all it shows is that he thrives on getting praise for getting close. "I'm trying really, really hard" doesn't cut it. The team will be out of it after they get blasted by the Dodgers the next couple weeks.

They were reportedly second on Quintana, and likely used one or more of the trade pieces that didn’t move in that deal to acquire Christian Yelich. There is a chance that if the Quintana deal does happen that the Yelich deal never occurs. These situations are fluid and I trust that Stearns will shift his assets to improve the team in other areas. Also, receiving praise over trade rumors is likely the last thing on Stearns’ mind.