2018-07-09: Brewers (Anderson) at Marlins (Urena) 6:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 4-3 in 10 innings]

[TURBO]

Essentially it's impossible for a manager to predict which pitcher might not have it in a night and sometimes it's just the game, the other team is also trying to win. To bash the manager each time a reliever gives up a run just gets old

 

I am merely saying, that if Hader doesn't go 6 or 7 days between his last appearance, maybe he is sharper and doesn't give up those HRs.

 

You guys can't possibly think that a relief pitcher will be as effective with sporadic appearances as he would if he is used more consistantly, right?

 

Counsell is not perfect, and he is not above criticism. If he does stupid things, you can and should expect him to be questioned. I don't think we should just accept everything he does, he is sometimes at fault, whether people here believe it or not.

[adambr2]

Regardless of what happens here, that was such a dumb bunt. Thanks Marlins.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Why do you guys keep using the "re-think how they are using him" line? You act like they've been using him once a week the entire season. It happened once, during a 20 games in 19 days stretch where the circumstances made the decision a little tricky.

 

He's a Cy Young candidate. They don't need to re-think anything. Just stop.

[xisxisxis]

Hader didn't come out pitching poorly.

 

Depends on if you only look at one thing. His MPH on his fastball has been 3-5MPH down tonight which isn't normal or good... And it makes that unhitable fastball very hitable.

He's throwing 94 or so, that looks about normal to me.

 

1 pitch this inning at 94, the rest 90-92...

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Nice job Taylor

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Nice job Taylor

 

He's been very impressive lately. Nice to see him being used in Barnes' former leverage situations.

[YelichPosse]

Hader def was not his normal self til the end of his appearance. I can say that’s CC’s fault for not getting him some work at some point the last week (there were about 3 times I think most agreed they could have went to him if even to get him a couple batters).

 

In the same vein I don’t know if Williams will do the job but I think it’s a good move to bring him in vs a guy that teed off Hader already. So good on CC for this move. Taylor has shown he can be good.

 

I’ve been a Brewers fan long enough to appreciate good and bad moves. Lord knows I’ve seen thousands of bad ones! It’s nice to have higher expectations for once.

[wildcat83]

I’m watching Nottingham circle under that with Williams and Jesus sort of hesitant at first. Glad the big guy took charge!

[bigredrobbo]

The 20/20 hindsight goggles needed to be a MLB manager, must be delayed by the holidays last week...

[pacopete4]

I’m glad Hader got a week off in the middle of continued winning. It’ll pay dividends later in the season.

[SRB]

Let's get a run here. Extra innings against the Marlins is depressing for everyone.

[tmwiese55]

Essentially it's impossible for a manager to predict which pitcher might not have it in a night and sometimes it's just the game, the other team is also trying to win. To bash the manager each time a reliever gives up a run just gets old

 

I am merely saying, that if Hader doesn't go 6 or 7 days between his last appearance, maybe he is sharper and doesn't give up those HRs.

 

You guys can't possibly think that a relief pitcher will be as effective with sporadic appearances as he would if he is used more consistantly, right?

 

Counsell is not perfect, and he is not above criticism. If he does stupid things, you can and should expect him to be questioned. I don't think we should just accept everything he does, he is sometimes at fault, whether people here believe it or not.

 

yup that's a fair way to look at it. I was more focused on the mocking type posts.

 

That said, where would you have used him without having the benefit of hindsight 20/20? That's the issue here, there's legit reasons he hasn't been used due to odd circumstances. I guess I'd say maybe yesterday in the blowout. Or maybe the game when he was already warming up. But then again, what if they needed him the next day? Then CC would get bashed for wasting him in a blowout. so I'd go with yesterday, give him like 12-15 pitches and get him out so that he's available today.

[82brewcrew82]

If he wasn't rusty, maybe he doesn't get too much of the plate for those 2 homeruns!!

That is complete speculation. Those were not the first home runs he has given up.

 

No more speculation than those who say he isn't rusty.

 

We can play this game all night.

 

Hader should not go 7 days between appearances, that is on Counsell. Maybe they need to re-think on how they are using the guy.

He pitched on the third and today. That isn't 7 days, its 5. He's given up runs and home runs on less rest but five days isn't unreasonable. He didn't pitch betwen June 2nd and June 9th (six days) and managed to not give up a run. You're right, we can do this all night and the answer is still that Hader just had a bad game.

[wildcat83]

I’m glad Hader got a week off in the middle of continued winning. It’ll pay dividends later in the season.

 

I know I made posts early in the year about Hader Jeffress and Albers pitching too often and getting wore out before the playoffs.

[FVBrewerFan]

Wow, it'd be agonizing to watch a game with some of you. Yup, it's the managers fault. The other team is getting paid too you know. I mean I guess Hader should've gone the rest of the season without giving up a run.

 

So, if he "get's some work in" a couple days ago and then can't go the following day in a close game with a lead then who's fault is that?

 

That would also be CC fault. If William's have up a hit there? You guessed it, CC fault.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I'm guessing the Brewers have done extensive analytics and figured out that using Hader unnecessarily to "get him work" in situations that don't call for it is not worth it. Now, last week there were spots he could have played. But I think there is probably more to this than just Counsell doing what he feels like.

[tmwiese55]

No more speculation than those who say he isn't rusty.

 

We can play this game all night.

 

Hader should not go 7 days between appearances, that is on Counsell. Maybe they need to re-think on how they are using the guy.

He pitched on the third and today. That isn't 7 days, its 5. He's given up runs and home runs on less rest but five days isn't unreasonable. He didn't pitch betwen June 2nd and June 9th (six days) and managed to not give up a run. You're right, we can do this all night and the answer is still that Hader just had a bad game.

 

And you know that after 3 innings he was likely completely shut down for at least two days, maybe even 3. So the two games after 3 days were a blowout and a game we were behind the whole game

[pacopete4]

I’m glad Hader got a week off in the middle of continued winning. It’ll pay dividends later in the season.

 

I know I made posts early in the year about Hader Jeffress and Albers pitching too often and getting wore out before the playoffs.

 

Counsell seems to be playing the long game with a lot of decisions. I’m all for it. We aren’t even to the “grind” part of the season yet.

[YelichPosse]

Essentially it's impossible for a manager to predict which pitcher might not have it in a night and sometimes it's just the game, the other team is also trying to win. To bash the manager each time a reliever gives up a run just gets old

 

I am merely saying, that if Hader doesn't go 6 or 7 days between his last appearance, maybe he is sharper and doesn't give up those HRs.

 

You guys can't possibly think that a relief pitcher will be as effective with sporadic appearances as he would if he is used more consistantly, right?

 

Counsell is not perfect, and he is not above criticism. If he does stupid things, you can and should expect him to be questioned. I don't think we should just accept everything he does, he is sometimes at fault, whether people here believe it or not.

 

yup that's a fair way to look at it. I was more focused on the mocking type posts.

 

That said, where would you have used him without having the benefit of hindsight 20/20? That's the issue here, there's legit reasons he hasn't been used due to odd circumstances. I guess I'd say maybe yesterday in the blowout. Or maybe the game when he was already warming up. But then again, what if they needed him the next day? Then CC would get bashed for wasting him in a blowout. so I'd go with yesterday, give him like 12-15 pitches and get him out so that he's available today.

 

This. With the Braves lefty heavy meat of the order you could have got him a couple batters and kept him fresh. No harm there. Hindsight is 20/20. I applaud the move to Williams today. He does make good moves too. The bad ones stick out more is all. It’s life and what the IGT is for - short term overreactions so we don’t throw the old remote clear across the room or a pillow into the wife’s China cabinet.

[folly412]

Bear Claw spelled all fancy is a pretty cool name.

[SRB]

This game has been excruciating. I can't take any more!!!

 

Hopefully wake up to a Brewers win

[pacopete4]

This Barraclaugh guy and Castro would be fine additions to this club.

[Bulldogboy]

Extra innings is not a good look here. Williams not quite ready for this spot and Burnes definitely not how you want the first time out to go. Offense is offensive.

[wildcat83]

Extra innings is not a good look here. Williams not quite ready for this spot and Burnes definitely not how you want the first time out to go. Offense is offensive.

 

Don’t matter how it looks as long as you win

[wildcat83]

Our pitchers throwing a lot of fastballs to a team who have crushed fastballs all night.

 

Williams finally went off speed and had him way out front.