2018-07-07: Braves (Sánchez) at Brewers (Wilkerson) 3:10 PM CDT [Brewers lose, 5-1]

[Baldkin]

Counsell's pen management the last 2 games has been absolutely atrocious.

 

last 2 games?

 

I think he has always been questionable when it comes to his pen use.

 

His rules are pretty simple. If they are tied or up 1-2, use the best relievers you have. If not, use everybody else and save those guys for higher leverage.

[trwi7]

My guess is it comes out that Hader has some minor injury tomorrow. It would also make sense if they have decided to stretch him out as a starter because of the Suter injury. If they stuck with Zagurski just because we were still down a run then I'll agree that Counsell mismanaged this game. Last nights game was just fine though, nothing at all wrong with how he ran the bullpen.

 

Hader was warming up in the pen.

[adambr2]

My guess is it comes out that Hader has some minor injury tomorrow. It would also make sense if they have decided to stretch him out as a starter because of the Suter injury. If they stuck with Zagurski just because we were still down a run then I'll agree that Counsell mismanaged this game. Last nights game was just fine though, nothing at all wrong with how he ran the bullpen.

 

He was warming up earlier. I'm sure they would not have him warming up if he has some minor injury.

[YelichPosse]

63.00 now. Yummy. Career over 7. Not looking like a winner here Cotton!

[JosephC]

Not saying that getting rid of Boone Logan was a mistake. But Logan at his worst is better than Zagurski.

[Ennder]

My guess is it comes out that Hader has some minor injury tomorrow. It would also make sense if they have decided to stretch him out as a starter because of the Suter injury. If they stuck with Zagurski just because we were still down a run then I'll agree that Counsell mismanaged this game. Last nights game was just fine though, nothing at all wrong with how he ran the bullpen.

 

He was warming up earlier. I'm sure they would not have him warming up if he has some minor injury.

 

They wouldn't have him warming up and not use him there either. He very easily could have felt something while warming up. That would make this all make 100% complete sense to me.

[adambr2]

My guess is it comes out that Hader has some minor injury tomorrow. It would also make sense if they have decided to stretch him out as a starter because of the Suter injury. If they stuck with Zagurski just because we were still down a run then I'll agree that Counsell mismanaged this game. Last nights game was just fine though, nothing at all wrong with how he ran the bullpen.

 

He was warming up earlier. I'm sure they would not have him warming up if he has some minor injury.

 

They wouldn't have him warming up and not use him there either. He very easily could have felt something while warming up. That would make this all make 100% complete sense to me.

 

Why would it surprise you that they would have him warming up and not use him? Counsell seldom ever uses Hader when trailing.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Counsell's pen management the last 2 games has been absolutely atrocious.

 

last 2 games?

 

I think he has always been questionable when it comes to his pen use.

 

His rules are pretty simple. If they are tied or up 1-2, use the best relievers you have. If not, use everybody else and save those guys for higher leverage.

 

I actually generally am ok with this strategy. Use the best in games where you have a significant chance of winning. Even down just 1, in the 8th odds are you’re gonna lose even with shutdown relief innings. Especially Hader, don’t waste that on a losses with the hope you’ll pull out one or two out of ten of these games.

 

But...also don’t throw in the towel with your worst reliever just because you’re losing by a run or two...

[wibadgers23]

I said before the series started that I would be pretty happy with a split and we're already guaranteed that at the minimum. This Atlanta team is really good. I could easily see them running away with their division.

[Ennder]

 

Why would it surprise you that they would have him warming up and not use him? Counsell seldom ever uses Hader when trailing.

 

Because managers rarely warm up their best RP and don't use them in the game. Why would he warm him up while down 2-0 and refuse to use him down 2-1, that would make no sense at all the way most managers run their bullpens.

[adambr2]

I've been an advocate of Hader in the pen but honestly the way he is used you might as well just stretch him out and make him into one of your starters. If all you're going to get out of him is 2-3 innings every 4 games you might as well get 5-6 out of him every 5.

[Ennder]

I said before the series started that I would be pretty happy with a split and we're already guaranteed that at the minimum. This Atlanta team is really good. I could easily see them running away with their division.

 

I think they are going to struggle late in the season because their pitching is so young and that just tends to be what happens with young pitching. Getting used to 30+ starts is very difficult.

[adambr2]

Why does our plate approach as a team when we are down multiple runs with no one on base generally call for even less patience and more hacking than usual?

 

Wouldn't you logically want, you know, the opposite? I get it if the bases are loaded and you're down 4 with 2 out, but no one on?

[brewcrewdue80]

Was Hader being warmed up as the crew scored a run? Another would mean a tie game thus Hader-time. But instead we got Z and likely his last pitches as a ML pitcher.

[adambr2]

Staying true and consistent to our "2 runs or less 40% of the time" stat.

[82brewcrew82]

I'd be shocked if Realmuto ended up here.

 

It's an obvious Brewer need, the Marlins are in a rebuild, and the two teams have already gotten together on a big deal this year. I imagine there will be other suitors for Realmuto if the Marlins shop him, though. But a deal would make good sense for both clubs. Which means it probably won't happen LOL.

Well, it makes sense for us. It doesn't make sense for Miami unless we have the best offer on the table. Either way, I don't think Stearns ponies up what it will take to get him.

[Bulldogboy]

Seems like once a week the brewers have a game that they are unable to play to win because of pitching issue. Watching the Cubs this never happens. I don't know why but they always seem to have enough quality arms to get them through a game. We will struggle to hold them off anyways. You just can't start a game thinking we going to throw our scrubs and hope it all works out.

[adambr2]

 

Why would it surprise you that they would have him warming up and not use him? Counsell seldom ever uses Hader when trailing.

 

Because managers rarely warm up their best RP and don't use them in the game. Why would he warm him up while down 2-0 and refuse to use him down 2-1, that would make no sense at all the way most managers run their bullpens.

 

Well, that's what happened, because Counsell confirmed it was simply his decision not to use Hader because we were losing.

[Baldkin]

They scored one run. Obviously had they pinch hit Hader, they would've won.

[adambr2]

They scored one run. Obviously had they pinch hit Hader, they would've won.

 

If they had scored 2 in the bottom of the 8th and lost 5-3, the context would be much different. I'm not necessarily saying they should have used Hader (though I'm definitely saying Zagurski for 2 was a mistake), but you can't always judge a move like that.

 

I'd prefer to see Hader used as a more conventional reliever or as a starter to at least increase his availability. If going 3 innings puts him out of commission for 4 days, he shouldn't be used that way except in the rarest of circumstances. Riding him for 3 innings against Minnesota in a 2 run game when he wasn't even at his best was unnecessary. We are very, very fortunate it didnt cost us the game yesterday where we really needed him.

[buckybrewer232]

My issue isn't that CC didn't pitch Hader, it is moreso that he decided to pitch Zagurski 2 INNINGS in a one run game. I'll also say again, I question why he is even on the major league team in the first place. Everyone on this board questioned the move of calling him up when it was announced, and we were all right.

 

The move to bring up Zagurski made no sense from the start, just a plain dumb move that cost the team. He'll be gone now, but it is frustrating sometimes when moves like this are made, where it is clear it is not putting the team in the best position to win games.

[Pugger]

Counsell's pen management the last 2 games has been absolutely atrocious.

 

This has been an issue all season at times.

[Chicago Here]

other than minny, we have struggled to take advantage of using the first wins of a series only to end up with splits after losing the back ends.

 

While we will get crushed today, there isnt any other pitcher to use other than Wilkerson.

 

If we can get 3 innings from him, who do we put in?

 

IMO, even if he gives 3 innings, just leave him in there for 7 and treat this as a spring training day. Use up all of sogards ABs as well. Maybe let williams pitch the last 2 innings.

We simply dont have starting pitching depth so dont blame Counsell.

 

Get crushed today??? Thanks for letting us know.

 

Isn't any other pitcher to use... NO... Woodruff was actually lined up, they chose Wilkerson because of the year he's having in AAA.

 

3 innings? No, he's stretched out as a starter.

 

Sogard plays for Colorado Springs, lol.

 

Don't have starting pitching depth? Anderson, Guerra, Chacin, Suter, Perralta, Davies, Miley, Nelson, Woodruff, Wilkerson... How many do we need? Depth we have.

You are wrong, we have no starting pitcher depth. 4 of the guys you mentioned are injured. And woodruff and Wilkerson arent mlb, but milb.

That said, Peralta has worked his way up to possibly snatch a playoff roster spot. Guerra, Chacin, Peralta, Anderson, and our new ace we snatch by the deadline. We need a #1. Someone who doesnt get smacked around post 5th inning 3rd time around.

[Chicago Here]

other than minny, we have struggled to take advantage of using the first wins of a series only to end up with splits after losing the back ends.

 

While we will get crushed today, there isnt any other pitcher to use other than Wilkerson.

 

If we can get 3 innings from him, who do we put in?

 

IMO, even if he gives 3 innings, just leave him in there for 7 and treat this as a spring training day. Use up all of sogards ABs as well. Maybe let williams pitch the last 2 innings.

We simply dont have starting pitching depth so dont blame Counsell.

 

Get crushed today??? Thanks for letting us know.

 

Isn't any other pitcher to use... NO... Woodruff was actually lined up, they chose Wilkerson because of the year he's having in AAA.

 

3 innings? No, he's stretched out as a starter.

 

Sogard plays for Colorado Springs, lol.

 

Don't have starting pitching depth? Anderson, Guerra, Chacin, Suter, Perralta, Davies, Miley, Nelson, Woodruff, Wilkerson... How many do we need? Depth we have.

You are wrong, we have no starting pitcher depth. 4 of the guys you mentioned are injured. And woodruff and Wilkerson arent mlb, but milb.

That said, Peralta has worked his way up to possibly snatch a playoff roster spot. Guerra, Chacin, Peralta, Anderson, and our new ace we snatch by the deadline. We need a #1. Someone who doesnt get smacked around post 5th inning 3rd time around.

[PeaveyFury]

It feels like there's a game every so often that the team is willing to punt on, even though it ends up being a winnable game. It's as though they thought that the unexpected spot start was unlikely to go well, so they had determined their strategy from the get-go and were unwilling to change it when it ended up being close after 7.

 

I'm sure that's not how it actually is, but this is the second time I've overtly thought that during the game this year. A game like this might be incredibly frustrating to look back on if we miss out on the division by a game or two, because it just doesn't feel like the team was put in the best position to win.