Something to make everyone take a moment ...

[MadThinker88]

Another Tribe fan posted this message on a different Tribe board.

While his message directed to other fans, I think it also hold some relevance for Brewer fans. Basically it goes back to the adage of "people that do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Just something to make everyone take a moment and think...

 

From Cats44

Saturday (July 7) will mark the ten year anniversary of the Sabathia trade.

 

Milwaukee made it because they were going for a WS title. We were looking for future production.

 

Boiled down to its essence, Milwaukee got half a season of CC, and we got ten years of Michael (Brantley). Out of it, the Brewers got exactly one playoff victory.

 

I don't want to be on the Brewers side of that kind of trade.

 

World Series or bust is an insane way to run a small market franchise. Baseball will go on in Cleveland beyond 2018. Blocked prospects, or not, they are the life blood of this franchises future. Falling on our sword for one shot is not the way to do business.

[KeithStone53151]

Great post, I couldn't agree more. The teams dishing out the prospects have tended to lose trades over the last 10-15 years. I get that Degrom, Thor, Realmuto have more than half a season of team control, but some of the prospect packages that people are willing to offer seem insane.

[And That]

Out of it, the Brewers got exactly one playoff victory.

And exactly as many World Series titles as the Indians since the trade. How did Matt LaPorta work out?

 

The insane thing is thinking that cashing in prospect chips for major league production is always a good or bad idea. Baseball is a pragmatic game. Sometimes it does make sense to allocate resources to the big league club. The Brewers got exactly what they wanted out of the Sabathia deal, a shot at the postseason. They got there and it didn't work out. If they had won a title with Sabathia, I doubt this post gets made.

 

And if the Indians would have taken Taylor Green instead of Brantley, I doubt this post gets made.

 

The other way to look at it is, if the Brewers had kept all the guys they traded for Sabathia, does that move the needle a whole lot on the Brewers winning a World Series in the interim? I don't see how it does.

[Warning Track Power]

Great post for sure. The difference between Stearns in 2018 versus Melvin in 2008 (throwing out the pressure to make the playoffs for the first time in 26 years), Stearns has targeted controllable talent in the Yelich trade, Shaw trade, Villar trade, etc... This makes a Machado trade EXTREMELY unlikely unless its for spare prospect parts. If Stearns' past is prologue, then any significant trade will be for a controllable piece which puts the deGrom, Syndergaard and Realmuto types firmly in play.

[Dadbauer]

I think there are tons of flaws in this logic to be honest. First of all, the Brewers weren't exactly going for a WS title (at least other than the generic ALL teams are trying to win a WS.) The Brewers were pushing hard to capitalize on a chance to make the postseason for the first time in 26 years. That is a long time of futility, and the owners were very motivated to capitalize on a rare opportunity.

 

Second, Michael Brantley was not the major piece in this deal. LaPorta was the "sure thing" and no one was sour about losing a guy like Brantley. I guess it's unpredictable, and you could say Brantley just replaces LaPorta, but still you can't really credit the Indians as geniuses for Brantley becoming a stud - not many saw that coming.

 

Third, let's not pretend Brantley getting traded is what doomed the Brewers over the last ten years. Do you think Brantley would have been the one to get us over the top in 2011? Reversed the collapse in 2014? I guess it's possible, but again, that's impossible to predict and it isn't like our corner outfield slots have been black holes of production.

 

2008 was an amazing ride and having CC there was unreal - some of my fondest Brewer memories. I don't think an injury prone fringe all-star overcomes that for me.

[Ennder]

That was at a time that the team was trying to rebuild its fan base as much as anything else. It also should have resulted in a strong draft pick, that pick ended up going to the Angels and turned into Mike Trout. Stearns claims he is looking more long term so I wouldn't expect a rental trade. DeGrom is a bit of a different beast since he would be the ace for the next few years.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Had Sheets not broke down for that 2008 team, I'm convinced that was the best shot the Brewers have had to win the WS. Because of Sheets' injury, CC had to get ridden to death down the stretch just to win the wild card.

 

The premium prospect at the time (LaPorta) was hopelessly blocked for multiple years at 1B (Fielder) and LF (Braun) had he stayed a Brewer - and Melvin obviously sold high on him. Losing Brantley stung more than anything, but in reality he would have struggled to become a MLB regular in Milwaukee as well due to Hart and Braun holding down corner OF spots, plus solid players like Cameron and Gomez playing CF.

 

If hindsight is 20/20, it's not the Brewers who don't want to make that trade, it's the Indians because they'd hope a prospect package from a different team would've amounted to more than what they got for the premier starting pitcher available at the 2008 deadline.

[Point Beer Is Best]

Out of it, the Brewers got exactly one playoff victory.

And exactly as many World Series titles as the Indians since the trade. How did Matt LaPorta work out?

 

The insane thing is thinking that cashing in prospect chips for major league production is always a good or bad idea. Baseball is a pragmatic game. Sometimes it does make sense to allocate resources to the big league club. The Brewers got exactly what they wanted out of the Sabathia deal, a shot at the postseason. They got there and it didn't work out. If they had won a title with Sabathia, I doubt this post gets made.

 

And if the Indians would have taken Taylor Green instead of Brantley, I doubt this post gets made.

 

The other way to look at it is, if the Brewers had kept all the guys they traded for Sabathia, does that move the needle a whole lot on the Brewers winning a World Series in the interim? I don't see how it does.

 

Another way of looking at it is the trade sent the Brewers to the postseason for the first time in a quarter century, while LaPorta completely flamed out and the Indians were fortunate that the much lesser prospect in the deal (Brantley) turned into a good player. The Brewers sold high on a prospect (LaPorta) that never amounted to anything. That trade easily could have been them trading the best pitcher in baseball for half a season (and losing the comp pick) for absolutely nothing had Brantley not saved that trade for them.

 

The real travesty in the Sabathia saga for the Brewers is Mark Teixeira being rated a fraction of a point better than Sabathia which sent that Yankees 1st round pick to the Angels (who then drafted Mike Trout), while the Brewers ended up with a 2nd round pick instead. We got a higher comp pick for losing Brian Shouse than Sabathia.

[MrTPlush]

Those type of trades are likely a thing of the past. Without the draft pick compensation for rentals the value in those guys has really declined.

 

Yah, I wouldn’t want to be on that side of a trade either...good thing they are pretty none existent now. To give up that kind of prospect package you are likely getting 1.5 years of control minimum.

 

The only example of a rental getting huge value in recent memory was Aroldis Chapman, I cant think of any other ones getting much premium prospects. I think Zack Greinke was stil lunder the compensation for rentals era. Of course the Cubs probably didn’t win the WS without Chapman, so I don’t see regretting that one.

[wildcat2237]

I think the post completely misses the mark.

 

The Brewers did not get "one playoff victory."

 

The Brewers made their first playoff appearance in decades.

 

The Brewers get to hang a banner for eternity.

 

Does it suck that we ran out of gas and lost to the Phillies? Yes.

 

However, the goal every year is to make the playoffs, once in anybody can get hot....

[Madhawk23]

I'm guessing 99% of us would still make that trade if given the opportunity to do it all over again. Like others have already said - we were going for our first postseason birth in 26 years that year. And while we would have all loved to have gone deeper in that postseason, the joy of making it in on the very last day of the season is a moment that I hopefully won't soon forget.

 

And, I too believe that Brewers team would have had a legit shot at going much deeper had Sheets not had the injury that ended his season. Heck, we had to pitch Yovani in game 1 of that Phillies series, after he hadn't started a game since early in the season due to the knee injury at Wrigley. Then, CC had just run out of gas by the postseason and didn't have much left to give in game #2.

 

Again, I'd do that deal again and again if given the chance.

 

There's a radio host on MLB radio that always says "Prospects are cool, but parades are cooler," and while I am guilty of falling in love with our prospects as much as anyone, I think this is a good mantra to live by. No, maybe we didn't get to put on a WS parade in 2009, but we did get to experience a postseason berth for the first time over a 1/4 of a century, and that was worth it to me.

[BuckyBrewer61]

I understand that perspective from an Indians fan.

 

As a Brewers fan in my mid-20's who thought playoff baseball was a fantasy that wasn't meant for us, and knowing the final outcome...I make that trade 100 times out of 100 without an ounce of regret.

 

If we do ever win the World Series, I legitimately wonder if it will live up to the emotion I felt on the final day of the 2008 regular season.

[Warning Track Power]

If we do ever win the World Series, I legitimately wonder if it will live up to the emotion I felt on the final day of the 2008 regular season.

This.

 

As a lifelong Brewer fan born in the summer of 1982, not experiencing playoff baseball for 26 years man...I am not too proud to say that I started crying when Braun hit that HR in the 8th to take the lead. Can't imagine the feeling of a World Series.

[jjfanec]

Without CC we don't make the playoffs

With Brantley I don't think we make the playoffs anymore than we did.

 

Thus I am happy

[wildcat2237]

 

As a Brewers fan in my mid-20's who thought playoff baseball was a fantasy that wasn't meant for us, and knowing the final outcome...I make that trade 100 times out of 100 without an ounce of regret.

 

 

I agree 100%. At the time the trade was made the Brewers had a stigma around them as losers. The Sabathia trade made the Brewers relevant. The trade put the team over the edge and brought excitement to the city and went a long way towards eliminating the negative stigma surrounding the team.

 

If anything, I think the success of Brantley actually makes the trade a win-win for both the Brewers and Indians.

[brooks_quichenick]

I understand that perspective from an Indians fan.

 

As a Brewers fan in my mid-20's who thought playoff baseball was a fantasy that wasn't meant for us, and knowing the final outcome...I make that trade 100 times out of 100 without an ounce of regret.

 

If we do ever win the World Series, I legitimately wonder if it will live up to the emotion I felt on the final day of the 2008 regular season.

 

This.

[Madhawk23]

I understand that perspective from an Indians fan.

 

As a Brewers fan in my mid-20's who thought playoff baseball was a fantasy that wasn't meant for us, and knowing the final outcome...I make that trade 100 times out of 100 without an ounce of regret.

 

If we do ever win the World Series, I legitimately wonder if it will live up to the emotion I felt on the final day of the 2008 regular season.

 

This.

 

This (x1,000)!

 

I was born in '78, so I was only four when the Brewers made their WS run in '82 and don't remember any of it (outside of video I've seen over the years). Two of my most emotional moments as a Brewer fan (and honestly, as a sports fan period) was the final day of 2009 and then T-Plush walking off the Dbacks in '11 to secure our spot in the NLCS. I still get goosebumps when I see videos of both of those moments.

[NievesNoNO]

I can only answer on a purely emotional level. As a Brewer's fan that was one of the greatest seasons that I've had the opportunity to witness. 10 years of Michael Brantley can't touch being able to take my dad to the first playoff game in Milwaukee in over 25 years. Even having started the series down 0-2, it was so electric in the park! Something I'll never forget.

 

But yes, you don't want to make a habit out of trading for rentals. There's exceptions for every circumstance. I think this year's team has a real chance so I'm again ready to make a bold move.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

I don't think the goal of any trade is to "fleece" the other team. I think the goal is for the trade to work for both sides. Sabathia came here and put that team on his shoulders, becoming a Wisconsin folk hero in the process. Sure Brantley has been good, but LaPorta and the other piece (Zach Jackson I think?) didn't pan out. I think this is a legit case of the deal working out great for both sides. If the Brewers had drafted better with the two picks they got as compensation for losing Sabathia, that would have looked better as well.

[SRB]

The Brewers also got one of the most dominant half-season performances in major league history. I'm not sure that trade wasn't worth it even if we had a crystal ball and knew what Brantley would become. You can't always just add up total WAR and declare that side the "winner"

[BuckyBrewer61]

If the Brewers had drafted better with the two picks they got as compensation for losing Sabathia, that would have looked better as well.

 

Random trivia, I'm sure plenty people here know this but many Brewers fans don't:

 

The Brewers of course received a compensation pick from the Yankees when they signed Sabathia. Any other year, this would've been the Yankees first-round pick (#25 overall).

 

However, that offseason the Yankees also signed Mark Teixiera from the Angels to a massive contract. The powers that be determined that Teixiera was the "better" free agent, thus the Angels received that first-round pick while the Brewers instead received the Yankees' supplemental first rounder (#39 overall). The Brewers also had the pick immediately after the Angels at #26.

 

That Angels draft pick at #25?

 

Mike Trout

[A Swing and A Drive]

Another Tribe fan posted this message on a different Tribe board.

 

From Cats44

Boiled down to its essence, Milwaukee got half a season of CC, and we got ten years of Michael (Brantley). Out of it, the Brewers got exactly one playoff victory.

 

I don't want to be on the Brewers side of that kind of trade.

 

World Series or bust is an insane way to run a small market franchise. Baseball will go on in Cleveland beyond 2018. Blocked prospects, or not, they are the life blood of this franchises future. Falling on our sword for one shot is not the way to do business.[/i]

 

I couldn't disagree enough with this posters comments.

 

I would do the same CC Sabathia trade again every day of the week and twice on Sunday!

 

I'm sure the majority of Brewers fans would agree.

 

EVEN IF I knew LaPorta would also put up a decent 10 year career as an Indian. The Brewer Nation at the time had suffered through 26 non-playoff years. Melvin had to give the team a chance to get that monkey off their back at the time. If Sheet and Yo were healthier that Fall, the Brewers could have made a series run to the World Series that October.

 

And here we are 10 years later, and the Brewers still only have one more post-season appearance.

 

Steans should take a lesson from this and use his farm system to improve the big league club this July, IMHO.

[Eye Black]

The insane thing is thinking that cashing in prospect chips for major league production is always a good or bad idea. Baseball is a pragmatic game. Sometimes it does make sense to allocate resources to the big league club. The Brewers got exactly what they wanted out of the Sabathia deal, a shot at the postseason. They got there and it didn't work out. If they had won a title with Sabathia, I doubt this post gets made.

I love this paragraph and for some reason it also reminds me of a quote my favorite baseball movie...

 

“Anyway, a good friend of mine used to say, ‘This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball. You hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains.’ Think about that for a while.”

[trwi7]

The Brewers get to hang a banner for eternity.

 

Hanging a 2008 Wild Card banner is akin to the Bucks hanging their hats on all the 6-8 seeds they've accumulated.

[OnaBadger58]

The Brewers get to hang a banner for eternity.

 

Hanging a 2008 Wild Card banner is akin to the Bucks hanging their hats on all the 6-8 seeds they've accumulated.

 

When you haven't made the playoffs in 25 years or whatever it was, you become desperate. Making the playoffs was like winning the World Series at the time. Not saying it's right to celebrate a WC appearance, but you have to start somewhere. The Bucks are almost annually stuck in the purgatory of the NBA.