Brian Dozier

[KeithStone53151]

Dozier is a rental, Dozier had a poor first half, the Twins are way out of contention, there are very very few contenders with a need at 2b. These are all reasons the Twins aren't going to get a big return for Dozier. The argument that he's better in the 2nd half has some merit, but no GM is going to assume a 950+ ops in the 2nd half. If that was a blanket assumption, the Twins would get close to the Manny package despite the minimal market.

 

I think Dozier goes for what the Twins deem to be a bit better than a comp pick. But, keep in mind the Twins probably don't want to risk Dozier having a bad 2nd half and accepting a qualifying offer...they couldn't afford that, making them that much more inclined to make a deal. Also the Twins have a lot of good pieces, so I don't think they look to rebuild...moreso retool for next year. Maybe someone like Houser interests them if they want an arm. Targeting any of our 5 or 6 best pitching propsects is dreaming.

[bill hAll Star]

Dozier is a rental, Dozier had a poor first half, the Twins are way out of contention, there are very very few contenders with a need at 2b. These are all reasons the Twins aren't going to get a big return for Dozier. The argument that he's better in the 2nd half has some merit, but no GM is going to assume a 950+ ops in the 2nd half. If that was a blanket assumption, the Twins would get close to the Manny package despite the minimal market.

 

I think Dozier goes for what the Twins deem to be a bit better than a comp pick. But, keep in mind the Twins probably don't want to risk Dozier having a bad 2nd half and accepting a qualifying offer...they couldn't afford that, making them that much more inclined to make a deal. Also the Twins have a lot of good pieces, so I don't think they look to rebuild...moreso retool for next year. Maybe someone like Houser interests them if they want an arm. Targeting any of our 5 or 6 best pitching propsects is dreaming.

 

I agree with almost all of this except for the latter part.

 

The QO situation could blow up in their face like the Moustakas situation did for the Royals, but the Twins could absolutely just ride it out with Dozier and then get him on the QO. Yes, you lose the leverage of the comp pick in trading him next year, but the Twins do not want to go into another rebuild and have an extremely low payroll next year. I may not fully grasp all of the risk/reward here, but I could also see them standing firm that they'd keep him and offer the QO.

[KeithStone53151]

Dozier is a rental, Dozier had a poor first half, the Twins are way out of contention, there are very very few contenders with a need at 2b. These are all reasons the Twins aren't going to get a big return for Dozier. The argument that he's better in the 2nd half has some merit, but no GM is going to assume a 950+ ops in the 2nd half. If that was a blanket assumption, the Twins would get close to the Manny package despite the minimal market.

 

I think Dozier goes for what the Twins deem to be a bit better than a comp pick. But, keep in mind the Twins probably don't want to risk Dozier having a bad 2nd half and accepting a qualifying offer...they couldn't afford that, making them that much more inclined to make a deal. Also the Twins have a lot of good pieces, so I don't think they look to rebuild...moreso retool for next year. Maybe someone like Houser interests them if they want an arm. Targeting any of our 5 or 6 best pitching propsects is dreaming.

 

I agree with almost all of this except for the latter part.

 

The QO situation could blow up in their face like the Moustakas situation did for the Royals, but the Twins could absolutely just ride it out with Dozier and then get him on the QO. Yes, you lose the leverage of the comp pick in trading him next year, but the Twins do not want to go into another rebuild and have an extremely low payroll next year. I may not fully grasp all of the risk/reward here, but I could also see them standing firm that they'd keep him and offer the QO.

 

That's fair I suppose. Also if he doesn't accept and no team wants to give up the pick, they could get him for cheap...similar to the Royals with Moustakas this year. I still think it's safer to trade him for someone with team control next year. Leaves them more flexibility in the offseason.

[brewmann04]

Send them Ponce

[KeithStone53151]

I'm not sure why I go look at other teams boards, man alive. I just went to a Twins board, and some guy posted wondering whether packaging Dozier and Lynn could get them Freddy Peralta. Maybe we should try sending a decent player and a bad contract for their best prospects...

[mlloyd10]

Saw on twitter that the rumored offer to the O's for Machado was Ortiz / Phillips

[TURBO]

I wouldn't do those two for Dozier, but that would have been a good deal for Machado. It would have hurt, but I could have lived with it.

[Brewcrewin07]

Saw on twitter that the rumored offer to the O's for Machado was Ortiz / Phillips

 

IF that's true, no wonder DS didn't get him...Nothing like lowballing them David.

[82brewcrew82]

I wouldn't do those two for Dozier, but that would have been a good deal for Machado. It would have hurt, but I could have lived with it.

I agree, certainly was not a low ball offer.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

Saw on twitter that the rumored offer to the O's for Machado was Ortiz / Phillips

 

IF that's true, no wonder DS didn't get him...Nothing like lowballing them David.

 

The Brewers' system is much more than three prospects deep. And 2 1/2 months of play does not define a prospect's value. Both Phillips and Ortiz were Top 100 guys as recently as last season.

[82brewcrew82]

Saw on twitter that the rumored offer to the O's for Machado was Ortiz / Phillips

 

IF that's true, no wonder DS didn't get him...Nothing like lowballing them David.

 

The Brewers' system is much more than three prospects deep. And 2 1/2 months of play does not define a prospect's value. Both Phillips and Ortiz were Top 100 guys as recently as last season.

It is probably just a case of the Orioles liking the Dodgers offer better. Not much DS can do and he certainly shouldn't have upped the offer based on the irrationality of another teams FO.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It is probably just a case of the Orioles liking the Dodgers offer better. Not much DS can do and he certainly shouldn't have upped the offer based on the irrationality of another teams FO.

 

Bingo ... and now that we have an idea of what the Brewers' offer actually was, it will be interesting to see how each of these packages progresses. Of course, sending a pitcher like Ortiz to a system like Baltimore's would be playing with fire. They don't exactly have a great reputation for developing pitchers, and Ortiz is far from a finished product in my opinion.

[Humans Need Water]

Hard pass. Hiura can be better than Dozier the rest of this year and he costs nothing

 

 

Why does everyone assume Hiura is guaranteed success in the MLB? He is only in AA and has struggled recently. Yes, he was injured but he still needs time to hone his craft. He is the best bat we have had since Braun but he is only one year removed from college. Even Braun spent the first two years in the minors. I see Hiura in AAA to finish the year and possibly take a hold of the position next year, but to insert him into the MLB lineup right now would be detrimental to his development.

 

Renting a Dozier works out perfectly...if the Twins are selling.

I almost forgot I wrote that 3wks ago; not like things have changed in between now and then (Hiura injuring hand missing a week then immediately going 2-26 as a result). To answer your first question - his hit tool. They said it was MLB ready before the season started and there have been no setbacks with his arm or fielding. Clearly they don't want to start his clock so they're going toward Dozier at this point in time

[reillymcshane]

I don't think Dozier is going to cost a ton. JD Martinez didn't cost an arm and leg last year, and he was a superior player.

 

I'm thinking a top 20 guy - someone who might be useful down the road to Minnesota. Ponce, Houser, Stokes - that sort of player. Maybe Trent Grisham if the Twins want to buy low on someone who once had some promise.

 

Perhaps they could package Dozier with someone like Zack Duke - another expiring contract. Brett Phillips?

[Boomer5]

I’d think it will be something like Phillips for Dozier.

[JohnBriggs12]

Saw on twitter that the rumored offer to the O's for Machado was Ortiz / Phillips

 

IF that's true, no wonder DS didn't get him...Nothing like lowballing them David.

 

The Brewers' system is much more than three prospects deep. And 2 1/2 months of play does not define a prospect's value. Both Phillips and Ortiz were Top 100 guys as recently as last season.

 

Yeah but....if the tables were turned, Brewer fans would be up in arms getting two guys who were performing at mediocre levels this season for one of the best players in the game. In fact, Ortiz didn't put up very good numbers last year either. It wasn't close to the Dodgers offer which I though wasn't all that strong either.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

Yeah but....if the tables were turned, Brewer fans would be up in arms getting two guys who were performing at mediocre levels this season for one of the best players in the game. In fact, Ortiz didn't put up very good numbers last year either. It wasn't close to the Dodgers offer which I though wasn't all that strong either.

 

I would hope Brewer fans would be able to identify the upside and ceiling of the players they were acquiring, rather than the small sample of a few months of one season. At the end of the day, fans don't make moves, GMs do. I for one would be very excited to pick up a couple prospects of Phillips's and Ortiz's pedigree.

 

I disagree that the offers weren't close, too. The only real prospect was Diaz, and scouting reports are not particularly high on him. I think Phillips has an equal if not high ceiling. Then you are comparing Ortiz to the poo poo platter of fringe prospects the Dodgers sent. I guess if a couple of guys make it, they did OK, but if Ortiz ascends to the mid to upper rotation starter that most scouting reports peg him as, that's much more valuable.

[adambr2]

 

Yeah but....if the tables were turned, Brewer fans would be up in arms getting two guys who were performing at mediocre levels this season for one of the best players in the game. In fact, Ortiz didn't put up very good numbers last year either. It wasn't close to the Dodgers offer which I though wasn't all that strong either.

 

I would hope Brewer fans would be able to identify the upside and ceiling of the players they were acquiring, rather than the small sample of a few months of one season. At the end of the day, fans don't make moves, GMs do. I for one would be very excited to pick up a couple prospects of Phillips's and Ortiz's pedigree.

 

I disagree that the offers weren't close, too. The only real prospect was Diaz, and scouting reports are not particularly high on him. I think Phillips has an equal if not high ceiling. Then you are comparing Ortiz to the poo poo platter of fringe prospects the Dodgers sent. I guess if a couple of guys make it, they did OK, but if Ortiz ascends to the mid to upper rotation starter that most scouting reports peg him as, that's much more valuable.

 

The top 3 prospects the Dodgers gave up would have been #2 (Diaz will likely be a top 50), #15, and #20 in the Dodgers' system in the midseason update. Kremer, Bannon, and Pop rank #13, #17, and #29 in the Orioles system now (Diaz is #2).

 

It's contradictory to continuously talk up our #10-#20 prospects and yet say that Diaz is the only "real" prospect the Dodgers gave up and call the rest "poo poo platter".

 

I think what we offered is fair, but I doubt the Orioles highly considered it over what the Dodgers offered. I disagree that Phillips has the ceiling of Diaz, and I'm sure the Orioles don't see it that way either. Ortiz is a better second prospect than Kremer, but the fact that he's had trouble staying healthy and has basically treaded water in his 2 years since we traded for him isn't a great sign especially for a medically paranoid team like the O's.

 

Basically, I can believe our offer was second but probably a fairly distant second.

[wibadgers23]

Probably not a big surprise but Ken Rosenthal thinks we asked the Twins about Dozier AND Escobar.

[adambr2]

Probably not a big surprise but Ken Rosenthal thinks we asked the Twins about Dozier AND Escobar.

 

At this point I'm not really keen on loading up on rentals. I get that they're cheaper, but I'm not really crazy about our playoff chances for this year and I don't see Dozier and Escobar being super helpful in changing that.

 

I get that we've got a Rule 5 crunch coming up, but if we're going to deal some of these guys I'd rather either use them as supplementary pieces in bigger trades or package them together for assets that are at least controllable through 2019.

 

Nothing says we can't deal some of these guys in November too, it doesn't have to be now or never.

[Boomer5]

If these guys will be a rule 5 problem for us, they will be a rule 5 problem for the team that trades for them too. It's not like our current 40 man is that stacked compared to other rosters.

[Fear The Chorizo]

If these guys will be a rule 5 problem for us, they will be a rule 5 problem for the team that trades for them too. It's not like our current 40 man is that stacked compared to other rosters.

 

For the most part, yes, but there are going to be some younger guys with alot of talent that still need time to develop who could be stashed on a poor team's bullpen or bench pretty easily. I'm guessing much of the logjam clears up by cleaning up some of the current 40 man roster filler with all the utility IF and backup catcher options that really aren't worth risking losing an Ortiz or Modeiros, or gatewood if it came down to it.

[TooLiveBrew]

Dozier starting off his second half looking productive. .892 OPS so far in July, & that includes back-to-back 0-4 games.

 

If the buyer's market isn't going to be hot for second basemen as has been speculated, I'd like to see us go get him. Maybe we're not one hitter away from being the best team in the NL, but if we get production like his past two second halves, that's a significant addition to the lineup. I'd sure like to see what another .850-.950 OPS bat would mean for our offense.

[KeithStone53151]

Rosenthal mentioned that one team(he suspects the Brewers) inquired about getting both Escobar and Dozier. We certainly are the most logical team to target both. Would you all give up Ortiz for both guys? The Twins need pitching bad, the only way they combine both is if they get a better prospect back than either guy would get individually. I think most of that value is for Escobar as he'll be more coveted, and I doubt Escobar would get someone like Ortiz on his own.

[Bulldogboy]

I don't know if we need both. Unless saledino or Miller are going to be sent packing. Maybe throw in Villar to clear up the log jam. Rentals are not ideal especially since our playoff odds are in the tank.