Syndergaard and Merrifield trades connected.

[gebc1997]

Someone mentioned in one of the threads that perhaps the Brewers were looking to get Merrifield to make it more comfortable to trade Hiura. This makes a lot of sense to me and here's my proposals.

 

MIL gets Merrifield

KC gets Woodruff Villar Phillips and Supak

 

MIL get Syndergaard

NYM get Hiura Burnes Santana and Ray

 

I think very fair for all teams involved.

 

MIL is left with this for players available to help in 2020

 

C Pina

Nottingham

Bandy

 

1b Thames

Aguilar

Gatewood

 

2b. Merrifield

Perez

Dubon

 

3b. Shaw

Perez

 

SS Arcia

Perez

Dubon

 

OF Cain

Yelich

Braun

Broxton

Thames

Stokes

Grisham

Merrifield

 

SP. Syndergaard

Nelson

Anderson

Guerra

Peralta

Surer

Davies

Ortiz

Z Brown

Wilkerson

Derby

 

RP. Knebel

Hader

Jeffress

Williams

Barnes

Lopez

Houser

N Ramirez

QTC

Griep

any of the above mentioned starters should the need arise.

 

We would still be pretty set both offensively, defensively and starting and relief pitching

 

Thoughts??

[pacopete4]

Yes, empty the farm. Trade them all. Should work out really well.

[gebc1997]

The post actually just showed that it doesn't come close to emptying the farm

[trwi7]

Too much for Merrifield. Not close to enough for Syndergaard.

[pacopete4]

The post actually just showed that it doesn't come close to emptying the farm

 

From the top talent it does.

[OnTheBlack]

Someone mentioned in one of the threads that perhaps the Brewers were looking to get Merrifield to make it more comfortable to trade Hiura. This makes a lot of sense to me and here's my proposals.

 

MIL gets Merrifield

KC gets Woodruff Villar Phillips and Supak

 

MIL get Syndergaard

NYM get Hiura Burnes Santana and Ray

 

I think very fair for all teams involved.

 

MIL is left with this for players available to help in 2020

 

C Pina

Nottingham

Bandy

 

1b Thames

Aguilar

Gatewood

 

2b. Merrifield

Perez

Dubon

 

3b. Shaw

Perez

 

SS Arcia

Perez

Dubon

 

OF Cain

Yelich

Braun

Broxton

Thames

Stokes

Grisham

Merrifield

 

SP. Syndergaard

Nelson

Anderson

Guerra

Peralta

Surer

Davies

Ortiz

Z Brown

Wilkerson

Derby

 

RP. Knebel

Hader

Jeffress

Williams

Barnes

Lopez

Houser

N Ramirez

QTC

Griep

any of the above mentioned starters should the need arise.

 

We would still be pretty set both offensively, defensively and starting and relief pitching

 

Thoughts??

 

 

In a couple years most of the guys who have yet to play in the Majors(Nick Ramirez) are going to be people who only get mentioned in threads in which people say, "but hey, I was high on______fill in the blank. So many of these guys are gonna flame out it's totally pointless to try and project your depth chart two years out using this many totally unproven young prospects. I remember when Zack Braddock, Wily Peralta, Angel Salome and others were the next wave of superstars...yet I don't remember people talking about Freddie Peralta and Corbin Burnes being guys who could or are going to contribute to a team that's on pace to win 95 games this yeaer in 2016.

 

You just can't project this much. Go back and look at baseball america when they project a team's starting lineup years down the road. Most of the starters have flamed out.

 

 

I don't want to trade this many of our elite young talents.

 

 

Not to mention, we've been waiting and waiting for the Brewers to get a bunch of talented arms in the system and see which ones could develop into impactful big leaguers. And you're tossing most of those guys away.

[brewmann04]

I think I rather keep Hiura over Merryfield

[JosephC]

The post actually just showed that it doesn't come close to emptying the farm

 

From the top talent it does.

 

Agreed, bottom 5 minor league system if these trades are made. No question about it.

 

Kicker is that the Brewers wouldn't even be filling the biggest need at shortstop, unless there are folks out there that don't think Miller's defense at SS won't come back to bite this team in the rear end.

[djd1228]

Too much for Merrifield. Not close to enough for Syndergaard.

 

Not sure how thats "not close" , i think thats pretty close given his injury history. A top 30, top ~70, former top 100 whos shown can have MLB success (albeit struggling this year) and a top 5 pick from two years ago whos turning it around. Maybe another lotto or something but were overpaying with more imo. I could see another top flight prospect (like brinson this time last year) if the dude didnt have signuficant injury risk.

[mlloyd10]

Too much for Merrifield. Not close to enough for Syndergaard.

 

Is it though?

 

Three of those guys have shown to be avg.

[mlloyd10]

Merrifield

Cain

Yelich

Aguilar

Shaw

Braun ( Thames )

Pina

Miller

 

That’s a dangerous lineup

 

Noah

Anderson

Peralta ( Nelson )

Guerra

Chacin

 

Jennings

Jeffress

Hader

Knebel

 

I’ll put that against anyone in the NL

[paul253]

Agreed, bottom 5 minor league system if these trades are made. No question about it.

 

Minor league system rankings ultimately don’t mean anything. Not all that long ago we had the top ranked system. What it got us was one WC and one division title and NLCS appearance. And both only happened because trades prospects for established pitchers. I get that as a small market team we have to build from within. But we can’t overvalue our prospects to the point where we refuse to move any of them. We can’t be afraid to take risks. If we do what will happen is that many of these prospects we are putting so much faith in will flame out and get is nothing. No championship. No trade return. Nothing. We currently have a team that is not only competing but also has almost all of the key pieces under control for years. What we don’t have though is that shutdown pitcher who can consistently stop losing streaks and can shoulder the load in the playoffs.

[MrTPlush]

That would be utter highway robbery for Merrifield. Just looking at his stats he has a good bat and above average defense. That’s good for ~4 WAR a year.

 

And we are going to get that for spare parts? He has 4.5 years of control! Yah, good luck with that. Merrifield will require one of Burnes/Peralta to lead a deal and it won’t be cheap.

 

If we can get him without Peralta, Burnes, or Hiura why isn’t it being done yet?

[gebc1997]

Every team trades what are considered spare parts. Woodruff would go right into their rotation as he is a borderline top 100 prospect. Brett Phillips is a top 10 Brewer prospect and still young and could immediately see plenty of playing time in Kansas City. Villar would provide the same role for them as he does for us.

 

One teams spare parts are another teams starters.

[MrTPlush]

Every team trades what are considered spare parts. Woodruff would go right into their rotation as he is a borderline top 100 prospect. Brett Phillips is a top 10 Brewer prospect and still young and could immediately see plenty of playing time in Kansas City. Villar would provide the same role for them as he does for us.

 

One teams spare parts are another teams starters.

 

Didn’t say they didn’t. But thinking you are going to take a bunch of questionable value guys and throw them all together to get a 4 WAR player is a dream.

 

You are starting with Burnes or Peralta. No way around that. If you are centering it around Woodruff and Phillips said team must value those guys a lot. Both of them are trending downward in general.

 

The interest in Merrifield makes me wonder if the Brewers are as high on him as some fans are. Seems like a stretch that they are going to acquire Merrifield and then flip him in the winter to open up a spot for Hiura. Getting Merrifield = Hiura Traded...in my opinion. I doubt they would move either to a corner outfield spot.

[djd1228]

Every team trades what are considered spare parts. Woodruff would go right into their rotation as he is a borderline top 100 prospect. Brett Phillips is a top 10 Brewer prospect and still young and could immediately see plenty of playing time in Kansas City. Villar would provide the same role for them as he does for us.

 

One teams spare parts are another teams starters.

 

Didn’t say they didn’t. But thinking you are going to take a bunch of questionable value guys and throw them all together to get a 4 WAR player is a dream.

 

You are starting with Burnes or Peralta. No way around that. If you are centering it around Woodruff and Phillips said team must value those guys a lot. Both of them are trending downward in general.

 

The interest in Merrifield makes me wonder if the Brewers are as high on him as some fans are. Seems like a stretch that they are going to acquire Merrifield and then flip him in the winter to open up a spot for Hiura. Getting Merrifield = Hiura Traded...in my opinion. I doubt they would move either to a corner outfield spot.

 

Merrifield's ceiling is a 4 WAR player. Imo saying hes a legit 4 WAR player is bunk because he hasnt shown that he can be one over an entire season yet, although he did have a nice first half. Dude has pretty large R/L splits. Hes definately an upgrade and wont come cheap but an offer of Woodruff, Domingo and Dubon gets it done.

[pacopete4]

If we are trading three players for a second basemen it better be for Altuve. What the hell are we doing here...

[JohnBriggs12]

Hiura and Burnes are fine as headliners in a deal for Syndergaard. I could see Davies included if he comes off the DL and makes a decent start or two and Santana makes a lot of sense too. Maybe you include a guy like Payton Henry or a strong arm guy in the lower levels or both.

 

Hard to place a value on a guy like Merrifield who's a late bloomer. He's shown to be a very good hitter in 2 and a half seasons, but it's not like he's the second coming of Robby Alomar or Robinson Cano and guys below that level, even very good ones, aren't in huge demand. Maybe KC would be interested in Arcia as part of a deal that included Woodruff and Villar. Alcides is a FA after this year and they could believe that they can fix Arcia.

[MrTPlush]

Whit Merrifield

 

2016 - 81 Games - 1.7 WAR

 

2017 - 145 Games - 3.8 WAR

 

2018 - 74 Games - 2.0 WAR

 

 

Yah, there are questions about him. He is older so that might tack his value when looking at the next 4 years. He will never be super old by any means. Yes, he doesn’t have a super long track record either...also isn’t a short track record by any means either.

 

Like I said if it only takes those guys to get him we would be insane not to get him. Pretty sure 4 years down the road that trade would be great for us.

[rickh150]

Too much for Merrifield. Not close to enough for Syndergaard.

 

Agreed.

Merrifield for Ray and Villar?

Thor for Hiura, Burnes, and Santana, Woodruff, and a flier

[liveforoctober]

Jeepers. My first instinct when I saw the offer for Whit was to really hate it. Are we enamored with WM because of the defensive upgrade and control? That is where the big upgrade comes with him over Villar I think.

 

I'm not saying Villar is as good offensively as Merrifield ... but he is younger than WM. WM's career OBP is only like 12 points higher or something. Villar has a bit more pop. The strikeout ratios are similar, neither one walks much.

 

Merrifield is a better player... but Phillips, Woodruff, and Supak better?

[OnTheBlack]

Agreed, bottom 5 minor league system if these trades are made. No question about it.

 

Minor league system rankings ultimately don’t mean anything. Not all that long ago we had the top ranked system. What it got us was one WC and one division title and NLCS appearance. And both only happened because trades prospects for established pitchers. I get that as a small market team we have to build from within. But we can’t overvalue our prospects to the point where we refuse to move any of them. We can’t be afraid to take risks. If we do what will happen is that many of these prospects we are putting so much faith in will flame out and get is nothing. No championship. No trade return. Nothing. We currently have a team that is not only competing but also has almost all of the key pieces under control for years. What we don’t have though is that shutdown pitcher who can consistently stop losing streaks and can shoulder the load in the playoffs.

 

 

And then what happened after we made those deals for those players? As soon as those players left, the Brewers became a middling team with no real chance to win moving forward.

 

And trading away young piitching and middle of the order bats who play up the middle is a huge risk as well.

[adambr2]

Agreed, bottom 5 minor league system if these trades are made. No question about it.

 

Minor league system rankings ultimately don’t mean anything. Not all that long ago we had the top ranked system. What it got us was one WC and one division title and NLCS appearance. And both only happened because trades prospects for established pitchers. I get that as a small market team we have to build from within. But we can’t overvalue our prospects to the point where we refuse to move any of them. We can’t be afraid to take risks. If we do what will happen is that many of these prospects we are putting so much faith in will flame out and get is nothing. No championship. No trade return. Nothing. We currently have a team that is not only competing but also has almost all of the key pieces under control for years. What we don’t have though is that shutdown pitcher who can consistently stop losing streaks and can shoulder the load in the playoffs.

 

 

And then what happened after we made those deals for those players? As soon as those players left, the Brewers became a middling team with no real chance to win moving forward.

 

And trading away young piitching and middle of the order bats who play up the middle is a huge risk as well.

 

Agreed. I think your argument kind of works against you here, Paul. That 1 WC and 1 division title came after numerous sacrifices made to the top rated farm system you are speaking of. It didn't come as a result of organically building from the farm, we don't know what the result would have been.

[pacopete4]

Sustained success. That’s what I’ve wanted to see. I don’t think trading away all this talent brings sustained success. It might open up a window for a year or two but then we will be right back to where we usually are and I don’t want to see that.

[PeaveyFury]

The issue is (and was, in the 2008-2014 run) our continued inability to develop quality pitching of our own. Yes, Peralta and/or Burnes could break that mold. But if they don't, the Brewers will have to continue to acquire quality arms via trade or free agency. Free agency leads to overpaying for mediocrity, and trading for quality means you have to give up prospects to get it.

 

Until the team can put multiple self-developed arms into the majors and have THEM have sustained success, the team will always have to weigh the odds of shortening a window by trading prospects to fill holes vs. the possibility that you miss out on playoff success because you have those holes that you can't fill internally.

 

It's been a problem for 20 years, and shows few signs of getting better.