Arcia down, Wilkerson up

[LouisEly]

Wilkerson career OPS-A (13.1 career ML IP, yes this includes today): .670

Lopez career OPS-A (24.1 career ML IP): .853

 

Wilkerson will be sent down because he won't be available tomorrow, but of the two he is less the one I'd call hot garbage.

[tmwiese55]

I'm still surprised at the amount of people finding ways to defend and justify Sogard. really can't believe it.

[cesser000]

I'm still surprised at the amount of people finding ways to defend and justify Sogard. really can't believe it.

Reminds me a lot of when Ben Hendrickson's dad was posting on here trying to convince everyone his son was the next Cy Young candidate.

[Boomer5]

Neither Sogard nor Miller are starting SS on any team that wants to win.

 

The fact that it's coming down to an actual argument regarding those two shows why we need Arcia to figure it out asap.

[bork]

Lopez and Houser have both shown they can get big league hitters out. Enough with the musical chairs.

[rickh150]

Still going with this, ok.....

 

I'm not out to prove that Sogard is a better career player than Miller. I'm saying he is in the same category of player now. Both are backup middle IFs clinging to the MLB. Miller was traded for Choi, right? Wasn't Choi a borderline MLB player? Miller is better this season and overall with stats. I believe I agreed with you. You also can't talk outlier seasons when defending Miller, of all people. 2016.

 

Sogard was better last season overall and is doing well in the PH role, especially late in games. Sogard is better defensively..... still now. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who believes this... oh yeah, I believe CC believes this because of the Sogard for Miller substitutions this week to protect late inning leads. Biggie. You can't be THAT much better overall than another backup eh middle IF when the ol manager needs to replace you defensively for the other. Sorry, but you need that one for the win.

 

Finally, and I'm going to keep saying this in different ways, I hope a Miller, Saladino, Sogard, or even my bud Villar gets hot over the next week or two before the break. I really just want the team to do well, get in the playoffs, and win. Who does what, when or where, just details.

 

I just group all these guys in the same category with their own strengths and weaknesses, and I think that most Brewers fans do the same.

[pacopete4]

Buddy, not that I need it but this discussion was won a long time ago when you want to put Sogard up with the rest of these players. Okay I gotta know. Rank em... rank the middle IF candidates from best to worst THIS SEASON on the 40 man roster. (Perez, Sogard, Villar, Saladino, Arcia, Miller)

[rickh150]

Buddy, not that I need it but this discussion was won a long time ago when you want to put Sogard up with the rest of these players. Okay I gotta know. Rank em... rank the middle IF candidates from best to worst THIS SEASON on the 40 man roster. (Perez, Sogard, Villar, Saladino, Arcia, Miller)

 

Sogard had a better season than all, but Arcia, last season. Yet, he isn't even in the group?

 

I'm game.....This year alone, so far, just based on stats....

Saladino and Miller would be at the top. Villar and Perez would be in the middle. Sogard and Arcia would be at the bottom.

 

Overall, pretty much all in the same boat for me because of limited stats for Saladino and Miller (Villar has 232 ABs somehow this season), defensive abilities, PH, LD%, and taking into account their recent past.

 

That being said, I want Arcia on the team down the stretch for his defense alone, even if it is off the bench in the 8th and 9th. I'm ok with giving ABs to Miller and/or Saladino in July. I just don't think they are the ultimate answer to our middle IF problems or that much different to what we have already. That's why I'd be alright with trying Orf, Hiura, or making a trade. I hope someone, anyone, can make that bottom of the order and middle of the field better..... soon.

[pacopete4]

Okay, good enough. But for the record, so far Miller would be making that bottom of the order better if he wasn’t leading off due to the injuries to Cain and Yelich. Give it time. And I do agree that we need Arcia to figure it out because he’s the answer to SS.

[Mr Southpaw]

Let's arbitrate this...

 

Miller $4,500,000/year one year of arbitration

AGE AVE OBP SLG FLD(349 games)

28.9 .240 .314 .411 .964

 

Sogard $2,4000,000/year free agent

AGE AVE OBP SLG FLD(124 games)

32.2 .238 .309 .315 .973

 

When I put down the numbers, I basically say neither is a long term or short term solution. Miller has more power and Sogard is a little more nimble in the field. Other than that they are pretty much the same (not very appetizing). So if I had to pick with the entire history of the two, I would pick Miller because of the added power (better chance of winning a game late with a pinch hit double or home run). Neither should be in the game late protecting a one run lead. That is my opinion, Miller by a couple of hairs.

[rickh150]

Okay, good enough. But for the record, so far Miller would be making that bottom of the order better if he wasn’t leading off due to the injuries to Cain and Yelich. Give it time. And I do agree that we need Arcia to figure it out because he’s the answer to SS.

 

Miller hit .201 last season, and I'm not confident at all that he can sustain anything. Throw in the weakfish glove and he's another underwhelming choice.

[tmwiese55]

This Miller v Sogard argument comes down to overvaluing Sogards 4-5 week hot stretch and overvaluing Miller's one 'awful' year last season. Figure in regression to their mean's and it's really not close. And that's not to say Miller is some star player or anything, just that Sogard has no business being on an MLB roster.

[JohnBriggs12]

This Miller v Sogard argument comes down to overvaluing Sogards 4-5 week hot stretch and overvaluing Miller's one 'awful' year last season. Figure in regression to their mean's and it's really not close. And that's not to say Miller is some star player or anything, just that Sogard has no business being on an MLB roster.

 

Prior to last year, Sogard put up a respectable .266/.322/.364 in over 400 PA in 2013. Even this year which has been awful, his line drive percentage of 27% his 4 points higher than league average. The guy everyone is all enamored with, Saladino, posted a putrid .484 OPS last year in a fairly large sample. I'm not sold on any of these guys frankly. Ride the guy's that hot for sure but if none are, then the next guy gets a shot. It's doubtful based on his career that after missing 6 weeks that Saladino will pick up where he left off. Miller's done ok enough so far to keep getting looks.

[MrTPlush]

This argument that Sogard is comparable or even better than Miller is the greatest “using numbers that fit my stance” argument I have ever seen not by Clancy or Briggs.

[bill hAll Star]

Ah, it's 2018 and we've got people using ONLY batting average and fielding percentage on a board of baseball nerds. Awesome.

 

Eric Sogard is a better hitter than Adam Dunn.

[LouisEly]

Can we move Miller vs. Sogard to another thread? This is getting tiresome.

[rickh150]

This argument that Sogard is comparable or even better than Miller is the greatest “using numbers that fit my stance” argument I have ever seen not by Clancy or Briggs.

 

CC replaced Miller twice this week for defensive purposes. Sogard replaced him. Yet Miller is way better than Sogard now? This just shows that their value is similar now.

 

I don't think DS is using any of Miller's stats from his rookie year when looking at his current value. So for all those comparing entire careers from player to player, that is kind of like looking at Perez's SB numbers from 2016 and expecting some more of that soon.

[bill hAll Star]

This argument that Sogard is comparable or even better than Miller is the greatest “using numbers that fit my stance” argument I have ever seen not by Clancy or Briggs.

 

CC replaced Miller twice this week for defensive purposes. Sogard replaced him. Yet Miller is way better than Sogard now? This just shows that their value is similar now.

 

I don't think DS is using any of Miller's stats from his rookie year when looking at his current value. So for all those comparing entire careers from player to player, that is kind of like looking at Perez's SB numbers from 2016 and expecting some more of that soon.

 

Given this whole Orf/Colorado Springs and now Miller argument, you really need to take a general look at BABIP and how batting average fluctuates in shorter samples of time and can wildly fluctuate in different environments.

 

Given health and a guy not regressing, he'll hit the same average (unless he gets moved to Colorado) over the long haul in his career. A season or stretch can fluctuate here or there, but Miller was unreasonably unlucky in that .201 season. He's a .230-.245 hitter with a good OBP given his average with solid power for a middle IF. Defense, yes, it's average/below average.

[MrTPlush]

Orlando Arcia is worse this year than....

 

2011 slugging SS...Yuniesky Betancourt.

[markedman5]

Arcia just hit a homer in his first at bat tonight..........too funny