Miller called up, Santana optioned to AAA

[adambr2]

 

I like Sogard off the bench much better than Villar as our regular 2B, and I hope he gets chances to play fairly regularly. Then, again, I'd take Sogard over Villar straight up.

 

And there's the problem. You can make a case, albeit an incredibly weak one, for Sogard on the bench, but no impartial individual can possibly make an unbiased case for Sogard starting over Villar at 2nd. And I say this as someone who isn't a Villar fan though you said I was.

[JohnBriggs12]

Hey Sogard is 3 for his last 7, raising his BABIP to .188. I don't think BABIP is all luck but Sogard has hit 25 ground balls and only 2 have turned into hits. His LD% of 27% (exactly his career number also) is above league average of 23%. Villar on the other hand has a BABIP of .358 and a line drive percentage of just 20%. A lot of his ground balls are hit so softly, they turn into infield hits. He has 25 hits on 90 ground balls. Huge, huge difference.

 

Now Villar has an edge in that his best hit balls fly over the wall, while Sogard's are caught on the track but a case can be made Sogard has hit in extreme bad luck and conversely that Villar has been lucky. But Villar isn't a huge HR hitter so that edge isn't all that great and that should be offset by the fact that Sogard's K rate is lower.

 

Finally Sogard's career FP as a 2B is .987 compared to Villar's .967.

 

There's your case for Sogard starting over Villar.

 

Personally I like Villar as a RH hitter much better than a LH hitter. He takes better swings from the right side. The results aren't always there, but that's clearly his natural side.

[Thurston Fluff]

A lot of his ground balls are hit so softly, they turn into infield hits. He has 25 hits on 90 ground balls. Huge, huge difference.

 

That huge difference isn't just due to luck. Speed is a skill that cannot be taught but it is a skill nonetheless. It helps a subpar hitter be average because he can leg out more infield singles. Oh and using fielding percentages to determine defense is about as useful as using wins to determine how good a pitcher is.

[Fear The Chorizo]

Anyone who wants sogard over Villar straight up has some deepseeded disdain for villar for something that has nothing to do with baseball. Additionally, i agree that ultimately villar is part of the glut of current MIF depth that needs sorting out, particularly when hiura should be given every opportunity to be an everyday 2B around this time next year. That said, 2017 villar would be better than this year's version of sogard, and 2018 villar is a much better option. So yeah, even when slumping, villar is the better of those two options. There is just no statistical argument that makes sense otherwise unless sample size and objectivity get thrown out the window.

[SRB]

I certainly don't agree that Sogard is better than anybody in the majors right now, but across 2017-2018, Sogard has been better than Villar.

 

Villar would have negative fWAR again this season if he wasn't being propped up by flukey defensive metrics that are out of line with his career of being an atrocious defender.

[pacopete4]

Or, Villar has settled into second base and his numbers are reflecting that.

[adambr2]

Villar is fine at 2nd. I don't think his defensive metrics are flukey. Comparing his career defensive performance as a SS and 3B to his 2B defense is apples and oranges.

 

That said, we could use an upgrade at 2nd, but it isn't because of defense.

[rickh150]

Anyone who wants sogard over Villar straight up has some deepseeded disdain for villar for something that has nothing to do with baseball.

 

It has everything to do with baseball.... nothing to do with race. Sorry for not agreeing with you on our best 2nd base option, but you keep the race card in your hand.

[rickh150]

Anyone who wants sogard over Villar straight up has some deepseeded disdain for villar for something that has nothing to do with baseball.

 

It has everything to do with baseball.... nothing to do with race. Sorry for not agreeing with you on our best 2nd base option, but you keep the race card in your hand.

 

 

Also, I'm not saying Sogard should be starting/playing a bunch the way he has been hitting. I understood why he was demoted, and I'm hoping that someone can start hitting in the 2B and SS positions.

[adambr2]

Anyone who wants sogard over Villar straight up has some deepseeded disdain for villar for something that has nothing to do with baseball.

 

It has everything to do with baseball.... nothing to do with race. Sorry for not agreeing with you on our best 2nd base option, but you keep the race card in your hand.

 

I don't know if he was saying that, and I make no such accusation, but it takes some pretty insanely serious bias to think that Sogard is our best 2B option.

 

Villar is a better option. Perez is a better option. Miller is a better option. Saladino would be a better option once healthy. Starting Hiura's clock to get his bat up here is a better option.

 

That would make Sogard about the 6th best existing option without even getting into debates about the current journeyman guys at AAA who would probably be better and the external options that could be acquired for a song. Starting Eric Sogard every day at second base would be an insanely bad option and massively worsen the already black hole at the bottom of our lineup.

[TURBO]

The race card, here?

 

*shaking head*

 

It's always nice to keep that crap separate from these forums, let's continue that trend and stop the insanity.

[TooLiveBrew]

The race card, here?

 

*shaking head*

 

It's always nice to keep that crap separate from these forums, let's continue that trend and stop the insanity.

Agreed. No more on this discussion path, please.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

It was inevitable that this would happen. I'm actually surprised Santana wasn't sent down sooner. He just provides no value if he isn't hitting for power. I'll admit that his defense has been better than expected this year, but I didn't expect his offense to regress has much as it has. Hopefully he goes down to Colorado Springs and rakes for a month or so, and can come back up in the heat of the pennant race and help the club. I hope that Arcia joins him in Colorado as soon as Saladino is healthy enough to play.

[MrTPlush]

So let’s throw Villar’s BABIP out there inferring it is high, but leave out the fact I’m pretty sure that is in line with his career norms as is the LD%.

 

Love a good argument twisted to favor your narrative. Which is about the only way to convince yourself to start Sogard.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

 

1. The stats are right.... 14 ABs are small, though, as a sample.

2. Sogard has had higher Ks this season, sure. He has had bad numbers overall. So did your man, Villar.

3. Villar ran into outs constantly in 2016, his good year! His D was poor. I was constantly calling him to be traded, sat down and talked to, and/or given a red stop sign. Really good statsin 2016, with Little League baserunning and defense. Unbelievably bad...Last season, he played regularly at leadoff through August, even in CF to keep that great bat in the lineup, with an average in the low .200.... Villar had so much rope to be bad..... still does. Sogard doesn't and has been sent to the minors already this season despite LIKE U said, his small sample sizes.

 

I like Sogard off the bench much better than Villar as our regular 2B, and I hope he gets chances to play fairly regularly. Then, again, I'd take Sogard over Villar straight up.

 

Wow. I mean I get that we all have players that we personally like and dislike. But this is like bonus level hatred.

 

There is absolutely no fathomable baseball reason for any MLB team to start Sogard over Villar. None. Even when slumping, Villar is providing better defense and more upside offensively than Sogard this year. Heck, you could stick Suter out at 2nd base and likely get similar defense and offensive production to Sogard.

[pacopete4]

Villar played shortstop in 2016. It didn’t work out for him at that position and he’s playing second base now. A position that he’s grading out well at THIS season. So using it for your hate is simply silly.

 

Did he have base running blunders in 2016? Yep. Is he having them in 2018? NOPE. At least not anymore than the other guys on our team.

 

And the final thing I’ll mention. Has Villar ever been as bad as Sogard is right now? NOPE! It’s simply nuts that this is even defensible to want Sogard to start over a guy that’s probably playing at about league average for second basemen. Could he better? Sure he could. But Villar has held his own and probably will until Hiura is ready to go. Unless we find a rental...

[monty57]

We've debated which of our crappy middle infielders is the worst many times, but Santana deserved to be sent down because he isn't providing anything at this point. He's not hitting and he's a poor defender. I expect Phillips or Broxton will be up at some point, as they can at least work as defensive replacements for Thames or Braun.

 

Santana obviously has talent, but he needs to get ABs. AAA is the best place for that.

[JosephC]

It's just seems odd that this team should be searching for offense and there are now five guys on the 25-man roster that can play the middle infield (Miller, Villar, Arcia, Perez, Sogard). The only one of those players that hasn't had his offense questioned by Brewer fans is Miller and that's probably just because he hasn't been here long enough. For a team that seems to be searching for offense and supposedly had a big glut of OF/1B talent, it's just really strange to see Miller, Villar, Arcia, Perez and Sogard all on the roster at the same time.

[pacopete4]

It's just seems odd that this team should be searching for offense and there are now five guys on the 25-man roster that can play the middle infield (Miller, Villar, Arcia, Perez, Sogard). The only one of those players that hasn't had his offense questioned by Brewer fans is Miller and that's probably just because he hasn't been here long enough. For a team that seems to be searching for offense and supposedly had a big glut of OF/1B talent, it's just really strange to see Miller, Villar, Arcia, Perez and Sogard all on the roster at the same time.

 

Who do you suggest takes their place? You have Villar at 2B who is better than any option we have. Really the only thing that probably needs to be done is just put Miller at SS and be done with it. Miller-Villar should be stable enough offensively up the middle.

[Outlander]

I am hopeful putting Miller at SS never needs to be done. Miller is better than Sogard and Sogard should be gone first but I fully expect Miller to be below average offensively like much of the middle infield has been, a left handed hitting Perez that walks more.

[monty57]

It's just seems odd that this team should be searching for offense and there are now five guys on the 25-man roster that can play the middle infield (Miller, Villar, Arcia, Perez, Sogard). The only one of those players that hasn't had his offense questioned by Brewer fans is Miller and that's probably just because he hasn't been here long enough. For a team that seems to be searching for offense and supposedly had a big glut of OF/1B talent, it's just really strange to see Miller, Villar, Arcia, Perez and Sogard all on the roster at the same time.

 

That was pretty much the argument all offseason. We came into the year with the same three guys who played so bad last year that they needed to be replaced while we spent our capital on adding to the outfield, which looked to be a position of depth. These moves, which seemed odd, have helped us to a first place position as we near the half-way point.

 

I understand that the middle infielders stink, but I still think that Santana needed to go to AAA. Neither Sogard nor Santana were helping the MLB club much, but unlike Sogard, Santana has talent and can hopefully fix things in AAA so that he can have a bright MLB future. I don't care if Sogard rots on the bench, but I don't want to waste a potentially good young player in that role if there is a belief that the potentially good player can benefit from full-time duty at AAA. This same argument could be made for sending Arcia back to AAA while playing a guy with less potential like Saladino.

 

Santana has a .667 OPS for the year, and only had 24 ABs in June, so while people feel that he potentially could have been a good bat off the bench, in reality he hasn't been a good bat this year, and we still have whichever of Braun, Thames, Aguilar, Cain, or Yelich is sitting on any given day to act as the primary bat off the bench. Santana's playing time wasn't going to increase, and with that limited play he was being wasted. Sending him down was a good move regardless of how bad our middle infielders are. I hope that in the near future we will dump one of the middle IF and bring up Phillips or Broxton who could serve a useful role as a defensive replacement for Thames when he starts in the OF. Then maybe at the trade deadline we will find another guy like Walker who can fill one of the middle IF holes. Until then, we shuffle the deck chairs to try to find the "hot hand" at SS and 2B.

[rickh150]

I like the idea of bringing Santana back up immediately. Shaw goes to the DL. Even if not warranted, give Shaw the extra time to heal more completely.

 

We also need an extra OF now that Braun and Cain are banged up a bit. That should give him fairly regular ABs in the next 21 game in 20 days. The pitching in those games is from bottom level teams, as well. It might be a time to get him right.

[rickh150]

Also, get Aguilar at 3B to start about half of these 21 games. You can always shuffle him to 1B or the bench later in the game.

[brewerswinNLcentral]

I have really liked the miller pick-up since we got him

I am thinking he can do what neal walker did last year

[NievesNoNO]

I think the Miller add was semi-brilliant. I would like to see a trickle affect with the rest of the roster, however that shakes out. I'm in agreement that we have too many Middle infield types with Sogard, Perez and Villar. Sogard needs to go.

 

Miller can be somebody that at least can move the lineup along with his OB% ability and has some pop to boot. I think he should be the unquestioned starting 2B going forward.