Pace of Play

[homer]

Some interesting comments on this in the in-game thread so I thought it warranted a topic all it's own.

 

30 K's and 6 hits yet yesterday's game took over 3 hours to complete. Boring? Enthralling? Neither? What are your thoughts?

[stoutdude04]

I personally love games that take a long time...especially when I'm at the ballpark.

[rickh150]

Pickoffs and stepoffs should be counted as balls (not when having 3 balls, though)... bring back the running game that money ball took away. Stop the endless throw overs and stepoffs that adds time to games. Stealing ability and contact hitting become a bigger part of the game, promoting more action on the field and a quicker game.

[JimH5]

2018 Baseball: The Sport That Won't Interrupt Your Knitting

 

It was an interesting game that took an hour too long. Aguilar's homers were fantastic. Hader's appearance was awesome. Flaherty's performance was remarkable.

 

But my baseball fandom was born in the 1970s, when it was not uncommon for a game to last between 2 hours and 2:30. Turn on any game now at 9:00 p.m. and you're surprised if they're in the 7th inning.

 

There were 302 pitches last night. Fifteen of them resulted in field-of-play outs. Six resulted in hits. And 281 of them were fouls, swinging strikes, called strikes, or balls.

 

Not every game is going to be full of action, but last night's game was awful. I cannot imagine being 12 years old and actually wanting to watch this sport.

[BuckyBrewer61]

Think MLB needs to stop trying to regulate the things that analytics have changed. Yes the strikeouts, decreased small ball, etc take away from some of the strategy of the game that many of us enjoy. But the game is the game, and changing rules of the in-game play to try to stop teams from strategizing isn’t the right move IMO.

 

Instead, focus on the things that create so much dead time during a game:

 

Why does a new pitcher need 10 warmup pitches from the mound when they come in? Isn’t that what the bullpen is for? Maybe a couple to orient himself to the surroundings, then let’s go.

 

Why do we let batters step out, adjust their gloves, call timeout, etc? Let the pitcher throw the ball. If the batter isn’t ready, or even in the box, that’s his fault. We don’t let the D in football set them self before the ball is snapped, why does baseball?. More Suter vs Judge type at-bats would greatly increase the watchability of the game.

 

And if you do the above, you could actually put a pitch clock in and enforce it if you wanted. Don’t throw the ball in 20 seconds? That’s a ball.

 

Also replay...use it for what it’s meant for - getting obviously wrong calls right. Take 30 seconds to look at 3 good views of a replay. If you don’t know for sure if the call is wrong, call stands and move on. Yes, even if you could figure out with an ultra slow-mo replay that the call was wrong if you took a few more minutes. Close calls happen, and looking at excruciating detail to try to figure them out is a waste of time. None of this 5 minute BS.

 

I don’t know which of the above I really like or don’t like, but I’d rather these than try to change the rules to regulate out sound strategy. Instead find ways to decrease the dead time that exists without significantly changing the live action itself.

[rickh150]

2018 Baseball: The Sport That Won't Interrupt Your Knitting

 

It was an interesting game that took an hour too long. Aguilar's homers were fantastic. Hader's appearance was awesome. Flaherty's performance was remarkable.

 

But my baseball fandom was born in the 1970s, when it was not uncommon for a game to last between 2 hours and 2:30. Turn on any game now at 9:00 p.m. and you're surprised if they're in the 7th inning.

 

There were 302 pitches last night. Fifteen of them resulted in field-of-play outs. Six resulted in hits. And 281 of them were fouls, swinging strikes, called strikes, or balls.

 

Not every game is going to be full of action, but last night's game was awful. I cannot imagine being 12 years old and actually wanting to watch this sport.

 

Pretty spot on....

[BuckyBrewer61]

Also, the pendulum of today’s strategy will continue to swing, perhaps even more quickly in today’s world of analytics. While everyone has moved to the high strikeout, power bat, no running strategy...someone (perhaps even Stearns given the Cain/Yelich acquisitions?) will decide contact hitters, high OBP, and maybe even the running game are market inefficiencies that are now undervalued. The game will no doubt continue to evolve, this is not it’s final form.

[rickh150]

Lowering the mound? Getting more contacted balls in play, helping the hitter against constant high heat, might be something to think about sooner rather than later. Really tiring of the large amounts of Ks.

 

No fan base has had to endure more over a two year stretch.

[jerichoholicninja]

2 strike approach. It doesn't exist anymore. Batters don't care if a 2 strike pitch might be on the corner, they're not swinging and will take a chance that it's a ball (and then get pissy when it's called a strike). I will agree there are certain times where you don't want to wave at a pitch and potentially hit into a double play but when there's no force out there is literally no downside to trying to put the ball in play with 2 strikes. Somehow that eludes 99% of the league. A return to batters changing their approach with 2 strikes would make a world of difference to the watchability of games.

[homer]

Pickoffs and stepoffs should be counted as balls (not when having 3 balls, though)... bring back the running game that money ball took away. Stop the endless throw overs and stepoffs that adds time to games. Stealing ability and contact hitting become a bigger part of the game, promoting more action on the field and a quicker game.

 

 

rick I missed your thread when I created this one. My bad! We will keep them separate for now.

[rickh150]

Pickoffs and stepoffs should be counted as balls (not when having 3 balls, though)... bring back the running game that money ball took away. Stop the endless throw overs and stepoffs that adds time to games. Stealing ability and contact hitting become a bigger part of the game, promoting more action on the field and a quicker game.

 

 

rick I missed your thread when I created this one. My bad! We will keep them separate for now.

 

No offense taken.... there is slight difference in the topics, as well, this being more broad.

[paul253]

How about a pitcher has to face a minimum of two batters unless they get injured? Three and Four pitcher innings can take 25-30 minutes.

[stoutdude04]

I read somewhere that commercials added an extra 30 seconds to each half inning...right there is 15ish minutes. I realize they'd probably never do it, but getting rid of that would shorten the game to under 3 hours. Making the pitcher face more than 1 hitter is an idea that doesnt exactly change the basics of baseball, such as throw overs for balls and step outs for strikes. I'd prefer they get that time back by getting rid of the things that make the games longer without hurting the basics of the game.

[homer]

I think evolving bullpen use plays a roll. I'd love to see the numbers on how many more pitching changes there are versus 20 years ago. The mid-inning swaps are killers in terms of time wasted.

[NYChez]

I think evolving bullpen use plays a roll. I'd love to see the numbers on how many more pitching changes there are versus 20 years ago. The mid-inning swaps are killers in terms of time wasted.

I attended an Indians game recently. Terry Francona is the absolute worst in this category. I believe I sat through four pitching changes in one half inning. You could see it coming, and the thought in my head was, I could probably stand grab a beer at the stadium bar, finish the beer, and miss no action. I'm thankful that Counsell has gotten away from that approach this season. Hopefully it starts a trend.

[jerichoholicninja]

As for commercials, a couple times a race NASCAR will show commercials full screen with the race in a tiny box in the corner. Maybe baseball could do this every couple innings. Keep the game moving and keep the money flowing.

[istanbultaye]

I think that would be a good idea to go with mid-inning pitching changes. cut down a bit on number of warmup pitches, have the commercial break be 60 seconds and get back to the action.

[stoutdude04]

As for commercials, a couple times a race NASCAR will show commercials full screen with the race in a tiny box in the corner. Maybe baseball could do this every couple innings. Keep the game moving and keep the money flowing.

 

You're right. I have noticed this in other sports too. Solid idea.

[MrTPlush]

Baseball commercials aren’t even long. The pitcher isn’t even warmed up half the time it comes back. Pretty sure the broadcast just returns when the game is ready to continue.

[Fear The Chorizo]

As for commercials, a couple times a race NASCAR will show commercials full screen with the race in a tiny box in the corner. Maybe baseball could do this every couple innings. Keep the game moving and keep the money flowing.

 

That almost has to be done with a continuously moving event that would take almost 3 hours to complete without any caution flags/action stoppages, where nobody knows when something crazy will happen. It's not like when regular NASCAR commercial breaks happen, all the cars are waiting at a stop light. The used to just take the breaks without showing the race while it was going on.

 

Baseball has plenty of stoppages naturally carved into the game for commercial breaks - the problem is that some of the delays during actual innings of play are almost long enough for commercial breaks now. Statistical advancements have basically caused a paralysis by analysis effect on baseball. Defensive shifts and a combination of pitching game plans and hitters' approach have bogged down most every at bat. I think 1/2 the time guys are redoing their batting gloves they're trying to remember what a pitcher's tendency is for a certain count, while many pitchers and catchers catch themselves taking the same amount of time calling a pitch based on hitters' scounting reports based on mountains of data.

 

I'd love to see a comparison between 3 ball counts in today's game compared to 20, 30, 40, and 50 years ago. It's not even that hitters today have no 2-strike approaches - a strikeout is a pretty quick out once you have 2 strikes. The death of the sac bunt and largely of the hit an run and giving yourself up to advance a runner into scoring position have taken away plays in baseball that generate action and outs. The faster teams get outs, the faster games go. I also feel like today's pitcher is focused tons more on strikeouts compared to pitching to contact. I'd argue Greg Maddux would have really struggled to have a long career in today's game. He made 2.5 hour games routine by pitching to contact and not having to get bogged down with several 3 ball counts every inning. Today's game is actually becoming more and more like slow pitch softball in terms of action beyond pitcher vs hitter, and that's a shame.

[stoutdude04]

Baseball commercials aren’t even long. The pitcher isn’t even warmed up half the time it comes back. Pretty sure the broadcast just returns when the game is ready to continue.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sbnation.com/a/mlb-2017-season-preview/game-length/amp

 

You are right, but it is part of the problem. It isn't 30 seconds per half inning, more like 10 to 15, but is close to 10 minutes extra. Interesting article anyways.

[trwi7]

Some interesting comments on this in the in-game thread so I thought it warranted a topic all it's own.

 

30 K's and 6 hits yet yesterday's game took over 3 hours to complete. Boring? Enthralling? Neither? What are your thoughts?

 

I'm usually one that thinks 3+ hour games aren't that big of a deal but yesterday was a snooze fest for like 99% of the game.

[JohnBriggs12]

Some interesting comments on this in the in-game thread so I thought it warranted a topic all it's own.

 

30 K's and 6 hits yet yesterday's game took over 3 hours to complete. Boring? Enthralling? Neither? What are your thoughts?

 

I'm usually one that thinks 3+ hour games aren't that big of a deal but yesterday was a snooze fest for like 99% of the game.

 

I was at the game yesterday. After Mikolas grounded out to end an inning, he stood by first base, removed his batting helmet and glove, then strolled slowly back to the dugout where he spent another minute or so putting his cap back on and getting his glove before heading back out the the mound. The rest of the Cardinal team didn't emerge from the dugout until he got ready to go back out. The 2 minute clock and run out, and was reset at least once. What's the point of a clock if it's not enforced? The bat boy should have run out, gathered his helmet and batting gloves and one of the infielders should have carried out his cap and glove. He should not be allowed to walk all the way back to the dugout.

 

There was very little action in the game with tons of strikeouts, many on full counts, and very few hits.

 

One suggestion I heard made a ton of sense. Strikeouts are way up because hitting pitchers throwing 95 and up is hard. Wasn't that long ago when a guy who threw 90-92 was considered a power pitcher, now that's a soft tosser. The suggestion? Move the rubber back. Why is 60 feet 6 inches sacrosanct? Add a foot or a foot and a half and allow for more reaction time for the hitter. The rest of the game would remain exactly the same.

[owbc]

At least there is action happening on the screen during the commercials, the same can’t be said for much of the game these days.

 

With the attendance plunge continuing into the warm weather months I think we will finally see movement on this in the offseason. Perhaps the biggest indicator of the problem is how empty the ballparks are now in the 8th and 9th innings. Even the fans who are showing up can’t tolerate the length of the games and/or are not engaged enough to stick around.

 

The game has always been evolving and the rules need to catch up. It isn’t really a surprise or that big of a deal.

 

Strikeouts will be harder to fix since it is a multifaceted problem, unlike the pace of play which (as that article shows) is overwhelmingly caused by players just being slow. And there are some good arguments that strikeouts aren’t that bad anyway, especially for the TV-packaged version of baseball which emphasizes the batter-pitcher matchup.

[zurch1818]

When it comes to mid-inning pitching changes, my opinion is that they shouldn't need to enforce a minimum batter faced requirement. Rather it should be like a hockey line change...a new pitcher comes in with no warm ups and it should seem continuous.

 

In hockey when a goalie gets pulled, the backup comes in cold. In football, when a new QB comes in (especially after an injury), they are also cold. There isn't any warmup time with basketball either...players just check-in. Why can't baseball do something similar?