Brewers acquire INF Brad Miller and cash from TB in exchange for 1B Ji-Man Choi

[bill hAll Star]

The Brewers are dead last in offensive OPS from their SS position - 0.513...that's 72 points from 29th and a whopping 218 points from the league average!!

 

I don't care if Arcia is prime Ozzie Smith defensively - they need someone that can hit at that position. Right now SS is the one spot on the field where all of their healthy offensive options are brutal, and adding Miller to the mix at least gives them something. I don't count Villar as a SS option because moving him from 2nd to SS just would weaken 2B offensive output while also weakening SS defensively. Saladino was a pleasant surprise offensively during his brief stint before getting hurt - but expecting anything more than league average on offense from him is asking too much.

 

Are you saying Miller would weaken them offensively at 2B? Seems like it would be a push at 2B offensively between Villar/Miller.

 

For me, the best argument in favor of adding Miller is a soft platoon or 60/40 split with Villar at 2b...with Miller only playing against some RHP. Maybe that's enough PT that he remains sharp and can have quality PH appearances. The other argument being our FO sees something in Miller that they tweak to yield significant improvements.

 

This super utility thing is nonsense as Miller shouldn't play SS, I don't think Villar is moving back to SS sometimes...if the Brewers ever considered it we would have probably seen it by now.

 

All this said, I've been dead wrong about the Brewers intentions before and it will happen again. I hated when we brought up Saladino because I wanted to see Orf. I'll be hoping for the best if/when Miller comes up to the big league club.

 

Miller should be getting all almost all RH pitching starts if he is strictly a 2B.

 

Villar has generally been a bad fielder. Miller is a bad fielder at 2B or SS.

 

Brad Miller hits righties fairly well over his career. Villar his lefties fairly well over his career.

 

Villar's splits are closer over his career but it seems of late is a much better right-handed hitter. His vs. RHP splits are somewhat propped up by 2016 in which he was respectable.

 

Depending on the matchup, you could play Miller at SS and Villar at 2B against a RHP. Otherwise go with Arcia at SS and Miller at 2B. Villar/Perez and Arcia play LHP no matter what.

[KeithStone53151]

Miller should be getting all almost all RH pitching starts if he is strictly a 2B.

 

Villar has generally been a bad fielder. Miller is a bad fielder at 2B or SS.

 

Brad Miller hits righties fairly well over his career. Villar his lefties fairly well over his career.

 

Villar's splits are closer over his career but it seems of late is a much better right-handed hitter. His vs. RHP splits are somewhat propped up by 2016 in which he was respectable.

 

Depending on the matchup, you could play Miller at SS and Villar at 2B against a RHP. Otherwise go with Arcia at SS and Miller at 2B. Villar/Perez and Arcia play LHP no matter what.

 

First off, Miller is not a SS. He's worse than Sogard...and saying he's not that huge of a dropoff from Sogard shouldn't be used as an argument in favor of using him at ss, moreso that Sogard is at best the baseline for the minimum defensive caliber player that we should allow to play the position. In reality, he probably should never be playing SS.

 

Villar is not a bad defender at 2b. He was slightly below average last year and has been slightly above average this year to date. For me, he passes the eye test as well.

 

A strict platoon basically has Villar starting what 20% of the games? I'm not sure the ratios of starting RHP vs LHP, but 20% probably isn't far off. He should be playing more than that, especially considering he's a superior defender to Miller. Villar's OPS against RHP is around 680, Miller is around 780. Clearly Miller has been better, but it's not all that drastic. Plus Villar's OBP is only 17 points lower than Miller and Villar is an asset on the base(at least when he isn't a headcase). He makes up for some of the power by stealing bases. Also consider how good Villar is at taking pitches and working the count.

 

The argument I stated above in favor of Miller getting 40% of the starts at 2b and PH duty I noted as the only argument that really makes sense for bringing him on. Playing SS regularly, super utility, PH off the bench, none of those make sense...bringing him in only really makes sense as a 2b rotational guy. I should have pointed out that I don't agree with that usage of him. I still don't like the trade, and if Miller makes it to the mlb roster I don't think he should take more than 1 start a week from Villar at 2b and should never see a single inning at ss.

[pacopete4]

Keith I think you’re in for a rude awakening next week.

[pacopete4]

Vs RHP:

1. Cain- CF

2. Yelich- RF

3. Braun- LF (eventually)

4. Shaw- 3B

5. Thames- 1B (occasional Aguilar)

6. Villar- 2B

7. Miller- SS

8. Kratz/Pina- C

 

Vs. LHP:

1. Cain- CF

2. Yelich- RF

3. Braun- LF (eventually)

4. Aguilar- 1B

5. Shaw- 3B

6. Villar- 2B

7. Perez- SS

8. Kratz/Pina- C

 

 

Giddy up! And if Stearns somehow upgrades our catching situation. Look out!

[bill hAll Star]

Miller should be getting all almost all RH pitching starts if he is strictly a 2B.

 

Villar has generally been a bad fielder. Miller is a bad fielder at 2B or SS.

 

Brad Miller hits righties fairly well over his career. Villar his lefties fairly well over his career.

 

Villar's splits are closer over his career but it seems of late is a much better right-handed hitter. His vs. RHP splits are somewhat propped up by 2016 in which he was respectable.

 

Depending on the matchup, you could play Miller at SS and Villar at 2B against a RHP. Otherwise go with Arcia at SS and Miller at 2B. Villar/Perez and Arcia play LHP no matter what.

 

First off, Miller is not a SS. He's worse than Sogard...and saying he's not that huge of a dropoff from Sogard shouldn't be used as an argument in favor of using him at ss, moreso that Sogard is at best the baseline for the minimum defensive caliber player that we should allow to play the position. In reality, he probably should never be playing SS.

 

Villar is not a bad defender at 2b. He was slightly below average last year and has been slightly above average this year to date. For me, he passes the eye test as well.

 

A strict platoon basically has Villar starting what 20% of the games? I'm not sure the ratios of starting RHP vs LHP, but 20% probably isn't far off. He should be playing more than that, especially considering he's a superior defender to Miller. Villar's OPS against RHP is around 680, Miller is around 780. Clearly Miller has been better, but it's not all that drastic. Plus Villar's OBP is only 17 points lower than Miller and Villar is an asset on the base(at least when he isn't a headcase). He makes up for some of the power by stealing bases. Also consider how good Villar is at taking pitches and working the count.

 

The argument I stated above in favor of Miller getting 40% of the starts at 2b and PH duty I noted as the only argument that really makes sense for bringing him on. Playing SS regularly, super utility, PH off the bench, none of those make sense...bringing him in only really makes sense as a 2b rotational guy. I should have pointed out that I don't agree with that usage of him. I still don't like the trade, and if Miller makes it to the mlb roster I don't think he should take more than 1 start a week from Villar at 2b and should never see a single inning at ss.

 

I understand that you are suggesting that defense is important and that you think Miller is really bad, but I don't really get the idea not liking the idea of dealing a guy who has the ceiling of Justin Bour at absolute best and has no path to ever playing on this roster for a guy with essentially the same bat...but he plays multiple positions and has a MLB track record.

 

And you said you preferred Orf a few weeks ago and admitted that may not have been the best choice. Orf's decline over the past month since the hysteria of those wanting to bring him up back to being a zero power minors hitter that probably won't see the majors was somewhat expected...but if you wanted to get excited about some good minor league numbers, have a look at Brad Miller's. What a guy did 5 years ago in the minors shouldn't matter, but just use that to frame the "I kinda wanted Nate Orf" compared to the "Brad Miller is terrible" thought process. Miller is an MLB bat with below average defense. I trust our management will weigh bat vs. defense and plan accordingly.

 

I know that you don't completely like WAR and I agree it shouldn't be taken literally in all comparisons, but I think Sogard having a 2 career WAR and Arcia having a 1 career WAR is not too far off. Miller's is 7.2. He has more years accumulated over Arcia, but Miller is a 2 WAR player and I'd agree with that given our roster.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Keith I think you’re in for a rude awakening next week.

 

Yeah...this guy is either playing SS for the Brewers or they really have a trick up their sleeves and he's playing catcher.

 

He's going to be in our lineup. Probably often.

 

I won't be shocked if Arcia stays though.

[FVBrewerFan]

Vs RHP:

1. Cain- CF

2. Yelich- RF

3. Braun- LF (eventually)

4. Shaw- 3B

5. Thames- 1B (occasional Aguilar)

6. Villar- 2B

7. Miller- SS

8. Kratz/Pina- C

 

Vs. LHP:

1. Cain- CF

2. Yelich- RF

3. Braun- LF (eventually)

4. Aguilar- 1B

5. Shaw- 3B

6. Villar- 2B

7. Perez- SS

8. Kratz/Pina- C

 

 

Giddy up! And if Stearns somehow upgrades our catching situation. Look out!

 

Not sure if I'm kidding or not, but I would rather lose a game or two this year with Arcia than watching Miller/Perez play SS the rest of the season.

[KeithStone53151]

I understand that you are suggesting that defense is important and that you think Miller is really bad, but I don't really get the idea not liking the idea of dealing a guy who has the ceiling of Justin Bour at absolute best and has no path to ever playing on this roster for a guy with essentially the same bat...but he plays multiple positions and has a MLB track record.

 

And you said you preferred Orf a few weeks ago and admitted that may not have been the best choice. Orf's decline over the past month since the hysteria of those wanting to bring him up back to being a zero power minors hitter that probably won't see the majors was somewhat expected...but if you wanted to get excited about some good minor league numbers, have a look at Brad Miller's. What a guy did 5 years ago in the minors shouldn't matter, but just use that to frame the "I kinda wanted Nate Orf" compared to the "Brad Miller is terrible" thought process. Miller is an MLB bat with below average defense. I trust our management will weigh bat vs. defense and plan accordingly.

 

It depends how bad. I'm sure Tampa Bay moved him off SS for a reason, and him playing so much 1b there is telling about what they think of his ability to defend. There needs to be a certain baseline for whether a guy should be playing a position at all in the majors. The extreme example, there's a reason we don't play aguilar at SS. Yes, that bat would be nearly best in the majors at the position...but the defensive cost would be greater.

 

As for the move, I think I've said before the trade from a value standpoint is meh. It's fringe for fringe. I'm just concerned with how he'll be used. It's almost similar to the Sogard situation, in that putting him on the 25 gives CC ways to screw up games. I don't think Miller should see time anywhere but 2b, our 1b options are far superior with the bat and he isn't an mlb caliber ss. Shaw plays pretty much every game at 3b so considering him there is irrelevant. As for 2b, I still think Villar is a better option against LHP...and at best Miller is a push when compared to Villar against RHP considering all aspects of these players. I also know it's a small sample, but his track record as a PH is poor. This move to me is whatever for now, but I hope we don't give this too much time and/or make a more measurable and significant improvement to our bench down the line.

[KeithStone53151]

Vs RHP:

1. Cain- CF

2. Yelich- RF

3. Braun- LF (eventually)

4. Shaw- 3B

5. Thames- 1B (occasional Aguilar)

6. Villar- 2B

7. Miller- SS

8. Kratz/Pina- C

 

Vs. LHP:

1. Cain- CF

2. Yelich- RF

3. Braun- LF (eventually)

4. Aguilar- 1B

5. Shaw- 3B

6. Villar- 2B

7. Perez- SS

8. Kratz/Pina- C

 

 

Giddy up! And if Stearns somehow upgrades our catching situation. Look out!

 

Not sure if I'm kidding or not, but I would rather lose a game or two this year with Arcia than watching Miller/Perez play SS the rest of the season.

 

I know I've used Aguilar as an extreme example of why defense matters at the SS position, but in all seriousness we are better off completely punting on defense at SS and putting Aguilar there than having this platoon happen. This isn't fantasy baseball where just because a guy has positional flexibility means he can actually play there.

[bill hAll Star]

Vs RHP:

1. Cain- CF

2. Yelich- RF

3. Braun- LF (eventually)

4. Shaw- 3B

5. Thames- 1B (occasional Aguilar)

6. Villar- 2B

7. Miller- SS

8. Kratz/Pina- C

 

Vs. LHP:

1. Cain- CF

2. Yelich- RF

3. Braun- LF (eventually)

4. Aguilar- 1B

5. Shaw- 3B

6. Villar- 2B

7. Perez- SS

8. Kratz/Pina- C

 

 

Giddy up! And if Stearns somehow upgrades our catching situation. Look out!

 

Not sure if I'm kidding or not, but I would rather lose a game or two this year with Arcia than watching Miller/Perez play SS the rest of the season.

 

I know I've used Aguilar as an extreme example of why defense matters at the SS position, but in all seriousness we are better off completely punting on defense at SS and putting Aguilar there than having this platoon happen. This isn't fantasy baseball where just because a guy has positional flexibility means he can actually play there.

 

Oddly enough, the GM that has turned this franchise around very quickly and seems to be on the cutting edge of analytics does, in fact, believe he can at least play 2B and also probably SS.

 

There's also this:

 

Obviously Rays' brass vs. Baseball America Glaser/Stearns in opinion of where he should play.

 

I think some of the Rays moving him off 2B and maybe SS was the glut of middle infielders that they had.

[Outlander]

Keith I think you’re in for a rude awakening next week.

 

Yeah...this guy is either playing SS for the Brewers or they really have a trick up their sleeves and he's playing catcher.

 

He's going to be in our lineup. Probably often.

 

I won't be shocked if Arcia stays though.

It's not really a trick but I guess I am under the assumption that Arcia or Saladino will be the every day SS. It is all speculation at this point though and I guess we will just have to see.

[wallus]

Am I crazy to think that we will play him at SS when we have strikeout pitchers on the mound? Arcia/Saladino should be playing when guys like Chacin pitches.

[adambr2]

Yes, I think Miller is going to start at SS, a lot, almost every day against RHP if Arcia goes down. This was not solely a bench padding move.

[jerichoholicninja]

They seem intent on getting Thames in the OF. Who's to say Miller won't be getting a lot of starts at 1B against RHP with an outfield of Thames, Yelich, and Cain. Braun has a couple more DL stints in him this year and Domingo has just totally disappeared.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Am I crazy to think that we will play him at SS when we have strikeout pitchers on the mound? Arcia/Saladino should be playing when guys like Chacin pitches.

 

Not crazy at all and because we have a young, forward-thinking GM I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's an unorthodox strategy forthcoming.

 

With the bullpen we have Arcia should probably be in any game we're up 3+ runs. Wouldn't shock me much at all if they go with the bat to start some games and quickly insert the defense later. Especially since you have to burn through PHs with all the pitchers you're using, it could potentially kill two birds with one stone. Maybe Miller starts and bats once or something. Arcia is then getting 1-2 less at bats. I'm just thinking out loud here but I'm interested to see what happens.

 

Again, don't think they traded for him to play in AAA.

[markedman5]

For those still wondering.......Villar isn't going to play SS

 

TH tweet

 

#Brewers manager Craig Counsell said there is no consideration of giving Jonathan Villar playing time at SS, his original position. They are too pleased with how he has progressed at 2B. Has been markedly better there this year, especially making plays in defensive shifts.

[bork]

So Villar isn't playing short. Perez has only played 4 innings of SS this year and is barely playing at all lately, so I don't see him at SS regularly. If it's not Arcia or Sogard, it looks like it will be Miller.

 

Of course Braun says he can still play anywhere but 3B.

[pacopete4]

It’s Miller time!!

[SRB]

Woah hold on a minute, I hadn't actually looked in detail at Miller's career defensive stats before.

 

Over his career (3089 innings), he is actually rated a decent defender at SS with a -3.0 UZR/150. His only bad season was 2016, when he was pretty bad, but UZR needs more than one season's worth of plays to be really meaningful. He also hasn't played SS in a couple years so you can factor that in too, but he's still only 28.

 

Previously I was just looking at his total defensive WAR for 2015, when he was brutal overall, but that's because the Mariners tried playing him in CF half the season and he was absolutely horrific (-55.2 UZR/150), not because he was bad at SS.

 

Career numbers at SS:

 

Miller, -3.0 UZR/150 (3089 innings)

Saladino, -3.7 UZR/150 (495 innings)

Sogard, -6.2 UZR/150 (783 innings)

Villar, -20.6 UZR/150 (2259 innings)

 

He's also an ideal soft platoon partner for both Villar and Saladino:

 

Miller career vs. RHP: .328 wOBA (55 points over LHP)

Villar career vs. LHP: .328 wOBA (19 points over RHP)

Saladino career vs. LHP: .296 wOBA (30 points over RHP)

 

What are people basing the "horrific defense" hot takes on? I doubt many on here have watched him play extensively, and statistically he only has one bad season defensively at SS (and even then he was better than Villar has been in his career at either SS or 2B).

[Mr Southpaw]

The Sky Sox box scores over the next week or so will give you the answers

[LouisEly]

I don't think that this is anything more than Miller replacing Sogard, whether that be in the majors or AAA.

 

SS is between Arcia and Saladino, and they don't want to bring up Miller until Saladino is healthy because they don't want to put themselves in a place where Miller has to start at SS if Arcia gets injured.

 

Miller will platoon with Villar at 2B and maybe play SS against really tough RHP.

 

Either way, it's likely the end of the Nick Franklin era, at least for 2018.

[JohnBriggs12]

They seem intent on getting Thames in the OF. Who's to say Miller won't be getting a lot of starts at 1B against RHP with an outfield of Thames, Yelich, and Cain. Braun has a couple more DL stints in him this year and Domingo has just totally disappeared.

 

Santana still has one option remaining. He needs to go to Colorado Springs and work on things now or they may not get any value from him the rest of the season. Bring Miller up to take his spot. They're covered in the OF with Perez and Thames figures to get some starts in LF. When Saladino's ready, send Arcia back down. He didn't get enough time down there to get straightened out and much like with Santana, sitting around up here won't solve things.. When they need a pitcher to take a start, then send out Sogard.

[djoctagone]

brad miller played his first game for the sky sox last night and played shortstop. he committed two errors.

[KeithStone53151]

brad miller played his first game for the sky sox last night and played shortstop. he committed two errors.

 

Bahahahaha, plug him in at SS...we'll be just fine defensively.

[bill hAll Star]

brad miller played his first game for the sky sox last night and played shortstop. he committed two errors.

 

Bahahahaha, plug him in at SS...we'll be just fine defensively.

 

Well the beautiful thing is that we'll have a handful of weeks to decide if after getting his feet back under him at the position if he can get back to being passable/not terrible at SS as he was early in his career.