Brewers acquire INF Brad Miller and cash from TB in exchange for 1B Ji-Man Choi

[OldSchoolSnapper]

If Eric Sogard took PT from Arcia I don't see any reason why Miller wouldn't.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

Miller is not a SS, he hasn't been for years and there's a reason TB isn't playing him there. Villar would be a far better defensive SS than Miller...and he was moved off the position for a reason. I'm not sure it would be wise to even give him spot starts at SS.

 

You can move them around as you see fit, but in any case, I don't think they got Miller to play in AAA all year. I think they see him as someone who's going to contribute significantly in Milwaukee. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[KeithStone53151]

Miller is not a SS, he hasn't been for years and there's a reason TB isn't playing him there. Villar would be a far better defensive SS than Miller...and he was moved off the position for a reason. I'm not sure it would be wise to even give him spot starts at SS.

 

You can move them around as you see fit, but in any case, I don't think they got Miller to play in AAA all year. I think they see him as someone who's going to contribute significantly in Milwaukee. Maybe I'm wrong though.

 

I don't think they would move Villar off 2b to fill in at SS. If they were willing to do that, we probably would have seen it by now.

[OldSchoolSnapper]

I don't think so either but the guy played 100 games at SS in 2016. If they're letting Sogard play there and bat .100 I think he's going to get some opportunities.

[pacopete4]

Keith, this seems like a weird hill to die on. Miller wasn’t traded for to stay in AAA. He’s gonna be in Milwaukee and most likely will outhit all that we have at middle infield right now. Especially against RHP, which is the best kind of platoon guy we could grab right now.

[xisxisxis]

You guys really think Brad Miller can get the majority of starts at shortstop for the Brewers? I just don't see it. Defensive aspect is just too strong to ignore and while Miller would definitely bring a better bat, it's not likely that he will OPS .850+ (but possible considering the way Sogard hit last season).

 

I'm not a big fan of defensive metrics and their incorporation into WAR, but as Peavey pointed out, even with bad defense, Miller would be more valuable than Arcia. It's hard not to be more valuable than arcia at this point because his offense is horrendous... He could cover 3b to 1B alone and still not make up enough to negate his abysmal offense... I'm not advocating starting miller over Arcia unless the Brewers decide another stint in AAA might wake up his bat, but I would be fine with some form of platoon.

 

And if we don't dump Sogard soon, I am going to start a thread asking for predictions on which manager Sogard has compromising pictures/data and of what....

[SRB]

Miller has never been below replacement level even when at his worst defensively (even last year when his offense was limited by injury), so yes bad defense and decent hitting is better than plus defense with atrocious hitting. Miller is better than Sogard, Perez, and, sadly, Arcia in his current form.

 

We've had the second best team defense in the majors this year (UZR), so Stearns may be willing to take a hit there to jumpstart the offense at the bottom of the order.

[KeithStone53151]

Keith, this seems like a weird hill to die on. Miller wasn’t traded for to stay in AAA. He’s gonna be in Milwaukee and most likely will outhit all that we have at middle infield right now. Especially against RHP, which is the best kind of platoon guy we could grab right now.

 

If you want to say he'll get a few starts at 2b and ph, that's much more reasonable than all the people expecting him to play SS. I also don't think Miller is even close to the player that Villar is, so him playing a lot at 2b doesn't make any sense. So we're basically trading for a bad defender and specifically bad pinch hitter to be on our bench. I'd rather give up something of value for more than at best a marginal upgrade over one of Sogard/Perez.

[pacopete4]

Keith, this seems like a weird hill to die on. Miller wasn’t traded for to stay in AAA. He’s gonna be in Milwaukee and most likely will outhit all that we have at middle infield right now. Especially against RHP, which is the best kind of platoon guy we could grab right now.

 

If you want to say he'll get a few starts at 2b and ph, that's much more reasonable than all the people expecting him to play SS. I also don't think Miller is even close to the player that Villar is, so him playing a lot at 2b doesn't make any sense. So we're basically trading for a bad defender and specifically bad pinch hitter to be on our bench. I'd rather give up something of value for more than at best a marginal upgrade over one of Sogard/Perez.

 

Again, you’re using such a small sample size to try to validate your point. It’s rather odd. Also, like others have stated, even with worse defense, he’s a better play at SS that’s Sogard or Perez and possibly Arcia. It’s not crazy thinking at all, hence why the trade was made.

[PeaveyFury]

Yeah, I don't buy the argument that they're sending him to AAA to get a few starts at SS to either not call him up or call him up and not play him at SS.

 

It either means Sogard is gone or Arcia goes back down, or both. Either way, he's playing SS at least a couple times a week, probably more.

[JohnBriggs12]

I don't think so either but the guy played 100 games at SS in 2016. If they're letting Sogard play there and bat .100 I think he's going to get some opportunities.

 

Brad Miller has started 345 games at SS in the major leagues. That's about 100 more than Villar has. Villar has a .953 FP at SS. Miller's FP is .963. I'd say both are defensive liabilities there. Villar's really been hitting well this year from the right side, like he did in 2016. I can see a platoon at 2B with Miller playing against RHP and Villar vs. lefties. Villar profiles more as a 6th hole hitter from the right side and Miller gives them pop in that spot.

 

I will go out on a limb and say Sogard, Arcia, and Santana (yes Santana) will all end up getting optioned, replaced by Miller, Saladino, and Thames over the next couple weeks. Thames will see some time in OF. Perez will remain jack of all trades, primarily Shaw backup and 5th OF. Saladino (SS) and Villar (2B) with Miller rotating in both spots will see bulk of action in middle infield.

[KeithStone53151]

Keith, this seems like a weird hill to die on. Miller wasn’t traded for to stay in AAA. He’s gonna be in Milwaukee and most likely will outhit all that we have at middle infield right now. Especially against RHP, which is the best kind of platoon guy we could grab right now.

 

If you want to say he'll get a few starts at 2b and ph, that's much more reasonable than all the people expecting him to play SS. I also don't think Miller is even close to the player that Villar is, so him playing a lot at 2b doesn't make any sense. So we're basically trading for a bad defender and specifically bad pinch hitter to be on our bench. I'd rather give up something of value for more than at best a marginal upgrade over one of Sogard/Perez.

 

Again, you’re using such a small sample size to try to validate your point. It’s rather odd. Also, like others have stated, even with worse defense, he’s a better play at SS that’s Sogard or Perez and possibly Arcia. It’s not crazy thinking at all, hence why the trade was made.

 

The PH piece is a small sample size, but PH and playing part time is completely different from everyday playing time. And Miller isn't just below average at SS, also even at a 720ish ops...that isn't enough with the bat to make up the defensive value of a fringe elite defensive SS to a far far far below average SS at best. This argument isn't that far off from saying we should just screw defensive value completely and throw Aguilar in at SS.

[Never Outhustled]

You guys really think Brad Miller can get the majority of starts at shortstop for the Brewers? I just don't see it.

 

It doesn't have to be long term, just long enough to send Arcia back to AAA to get bat together.

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

You guys really think Brad Miller can get the majority of starts at shortstop for the Brewers? I just don't see it.

 

It doesn't have to be long term, just long enough to send Arcia back to AAA to get bat together.

 

Or until Saladino is healthy enough to come off the DL.

[KeithStone53151]

I don't think so either but the guy played 100 games at SS in 2016. If they're letting Sogard play there and bat .100 I think he's going to get some opportunities.

 

Brad Miller has started 345 games at SS in the major leagues. That's about 100 more than Villar has. Villar has a .953 FP at SS. Miller's FP is .963. I'd say both are defensive liabilities there. Villar's really been hitting well this year from the right side, like he did in 2016. I can see a platoon at 2B with Miller playing against RHP and Villar vs. lefties. Villar profiles more as a 6th hole hitter from the right side and Miller gives them pop in that spot.

 

I will go out on a limb and say Sogard, Arcia, and Santana (yes Santana) will all end up getting optioned, replaced by Miller, Saladino, and Thames over the next couple weeks. Thames will see some time in OF. Perez will remain jack of all trades, primarily Shaw backup and 5th OF. Saladino (SS) and Villar (2B) with Miller rotating in both spots will see bulk of action in middle infield.

 

I can buy this, I don't think Sogard can be optioned and had to agree to be sent down last time. I'm not so sure that happens again...but we are far enough into the season that I don't know that Sogard is going to find it this season. I think Sogard is simply cut, not optioned. The more bold part of this prediction is Santana getting sent down...and given the guys we have available to use I think that's a real possibility, at least temporarily to help him find his power stroke.

[Fear The Chorizo]

IMO Miller is a great replacement for Perez on this roster longterm, but there are other guys on the roster who should be jettisoned/lose playing time first. In the short term he should absolutely replace Sogard on the roster simply to lose all goggles/no bat. Miller is an offensive upgrade that can play multiple positions in a pinch - not a premium defender but offensively a tremendous upgrade. And once Saladino is healthy enough to return, Sogard has abosolutely no business in either Milwaukee or CO Springs, so I hope he is simply cut to make room for Miller.

 

If Arcia continues to struggle, I wouldn't mind giving Miller multiple starts at SS between now and the deadline - while bringing in Arcia as a late inning defensive replacement. That's at the max a 6-week gap to bridge between now and when the rubber hits the road on whether the Brewers trade for an impact player to man SS. If they get nuts and bring in Machado to play there, Arcia gets sent back to AAA to sort himself out offensively the rest of this season while Miller still has an important role that could be compared to a better offensive version of Todd Walker 2017 (and he'd be much more versatile defensively).

[KeithStone53151]

Yeah, I don't buy the argument that they're sending him to AAA to get a few starts at SS to either not call him up or call him up and not play him at SS.

 

It either means Sogard is gone or Arcia goes back down, or both. Either way, he's playing SS at least a couple times a week, probably more.

 

He was a bad SS when he last played the position, and hasn't played there in 2 years. What is a handful of AAA starts at SS going to do for him? Will that solve all of his defensive shortcomings?

 

Seeing Arcia go down and the dropoff defensively watching Sogard man SS really opened my eyes to how valuable Arcia is. I remember one game specifically after Arcia was sent down that Sogard didn't make 2 plays that I know Arcia would have made. And Miller is an even worse defender than Sogard at SS. With our mediocre at best SP situation, we can't afford to put extra runners on base. Our SP isn't going to work around trouble as easily as our bullpen or other SP staffs.

 

I think for better or worse, we stick with Arcia until Saladino is back. Maybe then we can send Arcia to AAA to work on his approach and offense.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Brewers are dead last in offensive OPS from their SS position - 0.513...that's 72 points from 29th and a whopping 218 points from the league average!! Considering that's including 28 AB's from Saladino where he contributed a 0.952 OPS, Arcia and Sogard have been pitchers offensively for 2018.

 

I don't care if Arcia is prime Ozzie Smith defensively - they need someone that can hit at that position. Right now SS is the one spot on the field where all of their healthy offensive options are brutal, and adding Miller to the mix at least gives them something. I don't count Villar as a SS option because moving him from 2nd to SS just would weaken 2B offensive output while also weakening SS defensively. Saladino was a pleasant surprise offensively during his brief stint before getting hurt - but expecting anything more than league average on offense from him is asking too much.

[FVBrewerFan]

Yeah, I don't buy the argument that they're sending him to AAA to get a few starts at SS to either not call him up or call him up and not play him at SS.

 

It either means Sogard is gone or Arcia goes back down, or both. Either way, he's playing SS at least a couple times a week, probably more.

 

He was a bad SS when he last played the position, and hasn't played there in 2 years. What is a handful of AAA starts at SS going to do for him? Will that solve all of his defensive shortcomings?

 

Seeing Arcia go down and the dropoff defensively watching Sogard man SS really opened my eyes to how valuable Arcia is. I remember one game specifically after Arcia was sent down that Sogard didn't make 2 plays that I know Arcia would have made. And Miller is an even worse defender than Sogard at SS. With our mediocre at best SP situation, we can't afford to put extra runners on base. Our SP isn't going to work around trouble as easily as our bullpen or other SP staffs.

 

I think for better or worse, we stick with Arcia until Saladino is back. Maybe then we can send Arcia to AAA to work on his approach and offense.

 

That makes a lot of sense to me. And I agree, if Miller is that bad defensively at SS I don't want him there at all. No room for him at 1B, they already have 2 1/2 people there. I guess that means he's going to share time somehow with Villar at 2B? Maybe Villar plays some SS, or even 3B vs LHP?

[FVBrewerFan]

The Brewers are dead last in offensive OPS from their SS position - 0.513...that's 72 points from 29th and a whopping 218 points from the league average!!

 

I don't care if Arcia is prime Ozzie Smith defensively - they need someone that can hit at that position. Right now SS is the one spot on the field where all of their healthy offensive options are brutal, and adding Miller to the mix at least gives them something. I don't count Villar as a SS option because moving him from 2nd to SS just would weaken 2B offensive output while also weakening SS defensively. Saladino was a pleasant surprise offensively during his brief stint before getting hurt - but expecting anything more than league average on offense from him is asking too much.

 

Are you saying Miller would weaken them offensively at 2B? Seems like it would be a push at 2B offensively between Villar/Miller.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Brewers are dead last in offensive OPS from their SS position - 0.513...that's 72 points from 29th and a whopping 218 points from the league average!!

 

I don't care if Arcia is prime Ozzie Smith defensively - they need someone that can hit at that position. Right now SS is the one spot on the field where all of their healthy offensive options are brutal, and adding Miller to the mix at least gives them something. I don't count Villar as a SS option because moving him from 2nd to SS just would weaken 2B offensive output while also weakening SS defensively. Saladino was a pleasant surprise offensively during his brief stint before getting hurt - but expecting anything more than league average on offense from him is asking too much.

 

Are you saying Miller would weaken them offensively at 2B? Seems like it would be a push at 2B offensively between Villar/Miller.

 

No, I'm saying having to shift Villar from 2nd to SS to make room for Miller's bat at 2nd is a wash at best, considering Villar would be a downgrade defensively at SS. I think a move like that is rearranging three-legged deck chairs, especially because Villar hasn't sniffed SS since 2016. I'd rather Villar just stick at 2nd where he's gotten comfortable and see if Miller can avoid tripping over himself at SS for a few weeks getting roughly 1/2 the starts. Once Saladino is healthy, they need to decide between Saladino or Arcia to stay in Milwaukee. Then, adding a premium SS option via trade could shift Miller to Perez's role.

[MrTPlush]

I will take Miller’s bad defense with his bat over Orlando Arcia.

 

Right now our last three hitters have OPS of:

 

.630

.518

.300

 

I don’t know how to quantify that, but to have three worthless hitters in a row has to exponentially make things way worse. In an entire game that’s 33% of our ABs...to worthless junk hitters.

 

This isn’t just a small upgrade offensively...it is essentially +.350 OPS. That’s HUGE. That’s like going from Villar to Trout offensively...

 

They don’t make sense as platoon partners either (not that you would limit Arcia’s ABs that much, you would just AAA him). Arcia sports a absolutely horrendous .323 OPS vs. LHP.

 

It’s hard to even wrap your head around how much Arcia has struggled. Last 23 days:

 

Arcia: .396 OPS

Miller: .815 OPS

Suter: .557 OPS (career)

[KeithStone53151]

The Brewers are dead last in offensive OPS from their SS position - 0.513...that's 72 points from 29th and a whopping 218 points from the league average!!

 

I don't care if Arcia is prime Ozzie Smith defensively - they need someone that can hit at that position. Right now SS is the one spot on the field where all of their healthy offensive options are brutal, and adding Miller to the mix at least gives them something. I don't count Villar as a SS option because moving him from 2nd to SS just would weaken 2B offensive output while also weakening SS defensively. Saladino was a pleasant surprise offensively during his brief stint before getting hurt - but expecting anything more than league average on offense from him is asking too much.

 

Are you saying Miller would weaken them offensively at 2B? Seems like it would be a push at 2B offensively between Villar/Miller.

 

For me, the best argument in favor of adding Miller is a soft platoon or 60/40 split with Villar at 2b...with Miller only playing against some RHP. Maybe that's enough PT that he remains sharp and can have quality PH appearances. The other argument being our FO sees something in Miller that they tweak to yield significant improvements.

 

This super utility thing is nonsense as Miller shouldn't play SS, I don't think Villar is moving back to SS sometimes...if the Brewers ever considered it we would have probably seen it by now.

 

All this said, I've been dead wrong about the Brewers intentions before and it will happen again. I hated when we brought up Saladino because I wanted to see Orf. I'll be hoping for the best if/when Miller comes up to the big league club.

[sveumrules]

Miller's best offensive season was 2016 when he set career bests in both PAs (601) & wRC+ (111). Fangraphs valued that offensive contribution at 8 runs.

 

According to DRS, Arcia has already saved 10 runs with his glove this season.

 

Of course offensive metrics are much more reliable than defensive metrics (UZR only has Arcia saving 4 runs so far for instance), but it's very possible that Arcia's defense provides just as much if not more more value than Miller's bat.

 

At that point it comes down, to what subtracts more value? As bad as Miller has graded out at SS defensively, I think Arcia's offense right now is worse.

 

If Stearns & company think Miller is playable at SS, I'm fine with him getting time there. Can always use Arcia as a defensive replacement late in the game if needed.

[tmwiese55]

When it comes to SS starts. As other have said, we've currently been getting Sogard for 1-3 starts per week at SS this year. The dropoff on D from Sogard to Miller isn't drastic but the offensive improvement is huge. So, clear win their IMO.