Time to talk about future at SS?

[Ron Robinsons Beard]

If Arcia is the centerpiece of a Machado deal, then Manny's value has totally tanked or the Orioles are the worst run franchise in the history of everything.

 

Arcia is 23-year-old Gold Glove caliber SS who just last year hit nearly .280, and was a top 20 MLB prospect.

 

But he has no value ...

[3and2Fastball]

Brice Turang might be ready as soon as 2021 or 2022, but the Brewers have to sign him first.

[MrTPlush]

If Arcia is the centerpiece of a Machado deal, then Manny's value has totally tanked or the Orioles are the worst run franchise in the history of everything.

 

I’m not sure where to peg Machado’s value or Arcia’s because both massively depend on the right situation coming up and the eye of the beholder. Of course every trade works that way, but with these two I think it really matters.

 

Machado is a massive talent though at the premium position. He has cooled off big time, but if he carries near this kind of production into mid-July he is probably going to garner quite the premium for a rental.

 

I don’t think Arcia could headline a deal, but I think you are really underselling Arcia. He was pretty good last year and pretty consistent from start to end (it wasn’t really carried by one month or anything). I really doubt Arcia has just suddenly lost it and last year was his career year. If he rebounds to be like last year or better that is a pretty fantastic get in a trade. The risk is if he doesn’t at least rebound to last years numbers...if not he isn’t that great of a get.

 

If Jean Segura could have three good months, fall of the map for 2.5 years, and still get a nice package from Arizona I think Arcia still holds a good amount of the value he would have had before the season started.

[jerichoholicninja]

If Arcia is the centerpiece of a Machado deal, then Manny's value has totally tanked or the Orioles are the worst run franchise in the history of everything.

 

Arcia is 23-year-old Gold Glove caliber SS who just last year hit nearly .280, and was a top 20 MLB prospect.

 

But he has no value ...

 

His top 20 prospect value was propped up by one fluke offensive season in AA. I wouldn't put a lot of stock into that ranking or his results from that year. He's had almost 1000 MLB PA's and his career OPS+ of 73 is the same of our beloved Eric Sogard's 74. His plate approach and overall hitting ability have devolved to toddler levels. You can cite his age all you want but he's in his third major league season, close to making the whole age argument moot. The glove is good though.

 

There's no way a player who's season OPS is hovering around .500 and career OPS can't even sniff .700 is going to be the centerpiece for the most sought after player on the trade market, I don't care what his age or former prospect status is. Secondary piece, sure. "Centerpiece" for a much lesser player, sure. But there's no way Stearns asks the Orioles for Machado and they ask for Arcia and spare change in return.

[jerichoholicninja]

If Arcia is the centerpiece of a Machado deal, then Manny's value has totally tanked or the Orioles are the worst run franchise in the history of everything.

 

I’m not sure where to peg Machado’s value or Arcia’s because both massively depend on the right situation coming up and the eye of the beholder. Of course every trade works that way, but with these two I think it really matters.

 

Machado is a massive talent though at the premium position. He has cooled off big time, but if he carries near this kind of production into mid-July he is probably going to garner quite the premium for a rental.

 

I don’t think Arcia could headline a deal, but I think you are really underselling Arcia. He was pretty good last year and pretty consistent from start to end (it wasn’t really carried by one month or anything). I really doubt Arcia has just suddenly lost it and last year was his career year. If he rebounds to be like last year or better that is a pretty fantastic get in a trade. The risk is if he doesn’t at least rebound to last years numbers...if not he isn’t that great of a get.

 

If Jean Segura could have three good months, fall of the map for 2.5 years, and still get a nice package from Arizona I think Arcia still holds a good amount of the value he would have had before the season started.

 

Any trades involving Dave Stewart can not be used to accurately discuss player value and they generally defy all logic.

[buckybrewer232]

It's way too early to give up on Arcia as the SS for the future, but he's completely lost with no confidence at the plate right now. He needs to go down to CS for an extended amount of time to see if he can figure some things out.

 

I wonder if the staff has any faith in Perez or Villar at SS, because ideally you would bring Miller up to play SS against RHP and then have a RH bat to face lefties. Either way, a middle IF without Arcia is going to be poor defensively. Really unfortunate that both Saladino and Dubon are injured. Dylan Moore has hit all year, can he play SS at all?

[YelichPosse]

If Arcia is the centerpiece of a Machado deal, then Manny's value has totally tanked or the Orioles are the worst run franchise in the history of everything.

 

I would argue that they are quite poorly run. Going into the year don't you think the market for Machado would have been more (with him having a full year for a team as opposed to a couple months) valuable? The O's gave a monster contract to a K machine in Chris Davis, and never really rebuild, but instead make strange decisions and in the division they are in.... doesn't play out well.

 

I just think if they wanted Arcia as part of a deal (rental) for Machado, i would seriously consider it. I think the short term its a HUGE boost, but also long term, we could be ridding ourselves of a guy who may be glove only. Of course you run the risk of a late bloomer, but... if Machado brings us a deep playoff run, wouldn't that have a positive long term affect as well?

 

Marco may be as good as Arcia already, thus could open 2019 at SS... and think about this... if you deal Arcia (again, a long shot O's even want him), don't you think that would lead Turang to signing possibly seeing a clearer path to the show? Just thinking outside the box here is all....

 

If if's and buts were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry christmas....

[tmwiese55]

Yea any deal with Machado seemingly would have Arcia involved. Using the word centerpiece is probably strong though as I'd expect Huerra or Burnes to really be the more valuable piece at this point, and probably both would need to be in the deal.

 

[sarcasm]Speaking of Orioles SS, how about JJ to fill in on a 10 day contract?[/sarcasm]

[YelichPosse]

Yea any deal with Machado seemingly would have Arcia involved. Using the word centerpiece is probably strong though as I'd expect Huerra or Burnes to really be the more valuable piece at this point, and probably both would need to be in the deal.

 

[sarcasm]Speaking of Orioles SS, how about JJ to fill in on a 10 day contract?[/sarcasm]

 

ha centerpiece ship has sailed for Arcia, that is likely correct!

 

and i have floated that idea a few times. i would be super excited to let JJ play at short til Saladino gets back...

[pacopete4]

Or just let Arcia play until Miller is ready.

[Tbadder]

Miller will never be ready to play short. Arica is the present and the future. Maybe, just maybe Miller’s bat plays as a second base pinch hitter. Maybe he spells Arica in a blow out. He’s a poor baseball player, although I do recognize that this administration has a track record of of catching lightning in a bottle. Sogard, TS, now Miller. Use them temporarily and then dispose—please.

[adambr2]

Miller will never be ready to play short. Arica is the present and the future. Maybe, just maybe Miller’s bat plays as a second base pinch hitter. Maybe he spells Arica in a blow out. He’s a poor baseball player, although I do recognize that this administration has a track record of of catching lightning in a bottle. Sogard, TS, now Miller. Use them temporarily and then dispose—please.

 

I think you're going to be really disappointed when Miller comes up. Likely the whole purpose he's even going down is to get work again at SS (where he hasn't been as bad as you're making it sound, by the way).

 

Miller will never shine defensively but if they get anything close to a 30 HR player that he's been at a pitcher's park, that's quite an asset at SS.

 

The writing is on the wall for Arcia to lose significant time at SS this year and possibly see another demotion.

 

I think people are trying to talk themselves out of this being bad news for Arcia.

[brewmann04]

I like to see Miller get the power stroke for Miller park

[Fear The Chorizo]

Another thing to keep in mind about Arcia - he's not a player Stearns drafted, signed, or acquired. I wouldn't be surprised if Stearns doesn't value him enough to continue playing him everyday. While he was once a highly rated prospect and there's still time for him to turn it around offensively enough to justify him being the Brewers' SS of the future, he's been in the majors long enough for his on-field body of work to trump any potential he may have shown offensively as a young for his league minor league prospect. Frankly, I think a demotion is long overdue for Arcia, and had it not been for Saladino's injury he's probably still down in CO Springs right now.

 

At the end of the day it's on Arcia to prove he belongs at the MLB level as a hitter, and I think he's really on borrowed time with the Brewers to do so...

[TigerUppercut]

Another thing to keep in mind about Arcia - he's not a player Stearns drafted, signed, or acquired. I wouldn't be surprised if Stearns doesn't value him enough to continue playing him everyday. While he was once a highly rated prospect and there's still time for him to turn it around offensively enough to justify him being the Brewers' SS of the future, he's been in the majors long enough for his on-field body of work to trump any potential he may have shown offensively as a young for his league minor league prospect. Frankly, I think a demotion is long overdue for Arcia, and had it not been for Saladino's injury he's probably still down in CO Springs right now.

 

At the end of the day it's on Arcia to prove he belongs at the MLB level as a hitter, and I think he's really on borrowed time with the Brewers to do so...

 

I remember a few years back when many of the same posters that are roasting Arcia in this thread were also convinced and outspoken about how bad Jean Segura was at baseball. Let history be a lesson here. Arcia is 23, yes twenty freaking three. While he's struggling at the moment and not necessarily the answer this year, let's not act like there's not plenty of time for him to turn things around and be a plus player for the Crew down the road.

[adambr2]

Another thing to keep in mind about Arcia - he's not a player Stearns drafted, signed, or acquired. I wouldn't be surprised if Stearns doesn't value him enough to continue playing him everyday. While he was once a highly rated prospect and there's still time for him to turn it around offensively enough to justify him being the Brewers' SS of the future, he's been in the majors long enough for his on-field body of work to trump any potential he may have shown offensively as a young for his league minor league prospect. Frankly, I think a demotion is long overdue for Arcia, and had it not been for Saladino's injury he's probably still down in CO Springs right now.

 

At the end of the day it's on Arcia to prove he belongs at the MLB level as a hitter, and I think he's really on borrowed time with the Brewers to do so...

 

I remember a few years back when many of the same posters that are roasting Arcia in this thread were also convinced and outspoken about how bad Jean Segura was at baseball. Let history be a lesson here. Arcia is 23, yes twenty freaking three. While he's struggling at the moment and not necessarily the answer this year, let's not act like there's not plenty of time for him to turn things around and be a plus player for the Crew down the road.

 

Again, don't care about Arcia's age, I care how long we'll actually benefit from a good Arcia. We're in year 3 of 7 years of control over him, if it takes 6 for him to become a quality hitter that is probably not a very good time investment in our part.

 

Also that history lesson brought us Chase Anderson and a major piece of the Yelich trade. So as nice as it would be to have Segura right now I'm not going to get too shook up about it given what we ended up with in return.

[SRB]

Miller will never be ready to play short. Arica is the present and the future. Maybe, just maybe Miller’s bat plays as a second base pinch hitter. Maybe he spells Arica in a blow out. He’s a poor baseball player, although I do recognize that this administration has a track record of of catching lightning in a bottle. Sogard, TS, now Miller. Use them temporarily and then dispose—please.

 

Miller's career numbers disagree with you.

[danzig6767]

Such a bummer at SS this year

 

First Arcia turns into a pitcher at the plate.

 

Next Dubon tears his ACL in a run down when he may have been very close to getting called up.

 

Then Saladino shows some promise that he could be a competent fill in for Arcia and he days later badly twists his ankle on a fluke play.

 

So here we sit with either playing Arcia and his horrendous bat, trying Miller at SS where he'll be a defensive liability, or giving more starts to Sogard vs righthanded pitchers. All bad options.

[clancyphile]

Such a bummer at SS this year

 

First Arcia turns into a pitcher at the plate.

 

Next Dubon tears his ACL in a run down when he may have been very close to getting called up.

 

Then Saladino shows some promise that he could be a competent fill in for Arcia and he days later badly twists his ankle on a fluke play.

 

So here we sit with either playing Arcia and his horrendous bat, trying Miller at SS where he'll be a defensive liability, or giving more starts to Sogard vs righthanded pitchers. All bad options.

 

At this point, start Miller, let him at least light up the scoreboard with his bat. We get runs that way.

 

The fact is, Arcia was called up too soon. Regressing to a .720ish OPS in Colorado Springs after an .800 OPS at Biloxi should have been a red flag. He needed more seasoning in the minors.

 

At this point, get Hager to AAA, and maybe also try to give Moore a shot.

 

Segura was still turned into Yelich via Isan Diaz. The same can still happen with Arcia.

[jerichoholicninja]

Another thing to keep in mind about Arcia - he's not a player Stearns drafted, signed, or acquired. I wouldn't be surprised if Stearns doesn't value him enough to continue playing him everyday. While he was once a highly rated prospect and there's still time for him to turn it around offensively enough to justify him being the Brewers' SS of the future, he's been in the majors long enough for his on-field body of work to trump any potential he may have shown offensively as a young for his league minor league prospect. Frankly, I think a demotion is long overdue for Arcia, and had it not been for Saladino's injury he's probably still down in CO Springs right now.

 

At the end of the day it's on Arcia to prove he belongs at the MLB level as a hitter, and I think he's really on borrowed time with the Brewers to do so...

 

I remember a few years back when many of the same posters that are roasting Arcia in this thread were also convinced and outspoken about how bad Jean Segura was at baseball. Let history be a lesson here. Arcia is 23, yes twenty freaking three. While he's struggling at the moment and not necessarily the answer this year, let's not act like there's not plenty of time for him to turn things around and be a plus player for the Crew down the road.

 

I'm pretty sure a lot of posters were disappointed when we traded Alcides because they were sure he would become at least a competent hitter. That never happened. Goes both ways.

 

Orlando has very done very little in the minors as a hitter and has looked like crap at the plate the last 3 months. It's not like you can say he's got a good swing or a good approach so the hits will come. Everything looks terrible. He needs a total rebuild as a hitter. I'm guessing (hoping) the coaching staff has been trying to do that all year and he's made zero adjustments. I think that says all you need to know about him.

[FVBrewerFan]

Orlando has very done very little in the minors as a hitter and has looked like crap at the plate the last 3 months. It's not like you can say he's got a good swing or a good approach so the hits will come. Everything looks terrible. He needs a total rebuild as a hitter. I'm guessing (hoping) the coaching staff has been trying to do that all year and he's made zero adjustments. I think that says all you need to know about him.

 

He had a very good year in his AA season, that's an entire year. He's had stretches in 2016 and 2017 where he hit very well. It's not like he has always been awful, and that's why some of us are holding out hope he can find that again.

 

And you're wrong about making zero adjustments. He is focusing on trying to go the opposite field, that's one adjustment. He has eliminated some of his pre-pitch movements in the box, that's another adjustment. Obviously needs to make other adjustments. But to say he's done nothing, and that's all you need to know about him? That's a baseless, cheap shot.

[istanbultaye]

I could be wrong, with how our memories can trick us, but I seem to recall that Arcia almost completely eliminated his leg kick before going on his hot streak last year. Then fast forward through the winter he came in with a leg kick and posture in the box that was even worse than it ever was before he adjusted last year. So, I can understand how people get a feeling that he may be ignoring his coaching, to some extent.

 

If not for injuries and futility from backup middle infield so far this year, he would be down in AAA, I'm sure, since they already sent him down once.

[Fear The Chorizo]

The Brewers to this point have had the luxury of letting Arcia try to figure it out offensively in Milwaukee - they've got the best record in the NL - however at some point if they are serious about contending this year, it would do both their MLB club and Arcia good to have him work through these adjustments in the minors. A playoff run in August/September is not place for a struggling young player to work on things at the plate - even if his defense is otherwordly, he becomes a liability overall as an everyday player.

 

And Arcia's lofty prospect status largely occurred following his solid AA season offensively. He OPS'd .800 in Biloxi as a 20 yr old, with a .307 BA and .453 SLG. That year vaulted him into being a top 10 prospect in all of baseball prior to the 2016 season. Saying he's done very little in the minors as a hitter isn't true.

[jerichoholicninja]

One good season, followed by an incredibly mediocre season at a place and league where anybody can put up a .750 OPS is doing very little in my book. His season at Biloxi doesn't fall in line with anything else he's done at any level.

 

I fail to see any of the adjustments he's supposedly made. Yes, I remember a lot of times last year where he was driving the ball the other way but all I see this year is a guy flailing away at anything within a foot of the plate.

[FVBrewerFan]

One good season, followed by an incredibly mediocre season at a place and league where anybody can put up a .750 OPS is doing very little in my book. His season at Biloxi doesn't fall in line with anything else he's done at any level.

 

I fail to see any of the adjustments he's supposedly made. Yes, I remember a lot of times last year where he was driving the ball the other way but all I see this year is a guy flailing away at anything within a foot of the plate.

 

I get it, you can wipe away an entire season if it doesn't fit an agenda.

 

He has made adjustments, which is easy to see if you compare his pre-pitch movement today vs earlier in the year. Plus, both CC and Coles have said they're working on some things, including focusing on the opposite field.

 

You may want to be sure before you question a player's devotion. Otherwise it's a very cheap shot to take at a player, you're better than that.