Time to talk about future at SS?

[liveforoctober]

Pressing and loss of focus in my opinion. 2 dropped flies in the outfield is unusual for Arcia. He does not seem humbled by his brief demotion to AAA. True it was brief, but still he needs to rise to the daily occasion of being in the big leagues. WAKE UP ORLANDO.

 

I've seen this type of comment a few times since he came back and it is so silly.

 

So do you think he was racing for this pop up and thought to himself "I don't really need to try as hard as I can to get this because they won't send me back down to AAA.." ... then dropped it due to that train of thought?

 

Arcia has made that play before and will make that play again in the future. He also hasn't made that play and won't make it sometimes in the future. That is how it works. Your reasoning above is D or D+ detective work.

[JimH5]

Whenever I think I can predict the future with a player, I am reminded that I can't.

 

Arcia looks like a bust to me, though there have been players who have had lengthy careers with similarly dismal stat lines.

 

For now, Arcia is an incomplete player. Whatever he adds defensively (a lot), he is a negative bat, forcing the team to carry a backup infielder with a plus bat. Those guys aren't easy to find.

 

He's on the roster now because he is cheap and because they don't have anyone better & healthy. If they are serious about a postseason run, I have to imagine they'll be looking for a 2018 improvement. Manny Machado will probably be too expensive, but maybe Jurickson Profar or Jordy Mercer. Brandon Crawford would be perfect, but his contract runs through 2021, which would require giving up on Arcia.

 

In any case, 7 XBH and 8 BB through 172 PA forces the discussion.

[xisxisxis]

This isn't an isolated issue. It really depends on what offense we are getting from C and 2B. Villar is hitting well enough that it makes the C/SS black holes a little more tolerable. Arcia brings near elite defense. Pina hits way too poorly for the defense he doesn't bring. The real issue is what is our future at C? I am less inclined to promote Nottingham and let him go through his growing pains when the team is attempting to make the playoffs. The one benefit to Nottingham is that he could hit in the 8th hole and take the BB when he is pitched around (since Arcia would rather die than take a BB...) No out is better than what we get now... Kratz has hit well enough that I would be ok with bringing up Nottingham and sending Pina anywhere... So my answer to the questions is Nottingham...

 

Arcia's ultimate replacement was just drafted and when he signs will be on the path to MKE (hopefully before Arcia becomes expensive).

[jerichoholicninja]

The future is here. And his name is Brad Miller. (blue?)

[SRB]

It's way too early to write off Arcia as a bust. He is a typical guy who was rushed through to the majors because his glove is so good, but might take a little longer to develop offensively against major league pitching. Andrelton Simmons is a great example of a guy who is having an offensive breakout finally (granted, his defense is so otherworldly that he was a good player even when his bat was mediocre, whereas Arcia's defense is merely elite)

 

It does present the front office with a major difficulty for 2018 though, when we are trying to compete.

[Austin Tatious]

I’m all for fair criticism about young players. I think it’s premature here. This may not age well, but I am unwaveringly high on Arcia. His skill set is fine. The issues that I see lie primarily in his approach at the plate.

 

It’s a strategic thing with him as opposed to physical limitation. He often looks like a novice out there and you can see his approach is wrong. I saw him try to pull a pitch that was well off the plate outside and he looked bad doing it. He swings at crap and doesn’t have patience.

 

Perhaps he’s pressing. I have no idea how coachable he is, if his outward confidence is actually arrogance, etc.

 

But, if his head is screwed on right, I see a guy that has the ability to use the entire field. He has quickness with the bat. He’s not a slug or weakling. He has the talent and ability to hit. He needs to lay off pitches out of the zone, and go the opposite way and use the whole field.

[Bulldogboy]

It would be tough to give up on Arcia and his glove at this point but the onus has to be put on him to make some adjustments at the plate. It is unacceptable the lack of patience and strike zone awareness he has shown. Brewers in general to not have a good track record in this area but this is a franchise altering talent. The investment has to one the organization puts at the top of its priority list.

[The stache]

Can we get Jean Segura back, then take him and Arcia to some mad scientist, and have him create a half Arcia half Segura monster?

 

Wait. With our luck, we'd get Arcia's bat and Segura's defense.

[JohnBriggs12]

If they unloaded Arcia, I have a feeling it will come back to haunt them quickly. The comparisons to Escobar I get but Arcia was a top 10 prospect for more than his defense. He has offensive tools as well. That's not to say you stick with him come h... or high water in 2018. That's why you look at rentals.

[wallus]

Send Arcia back down when Saladino returns (whenever that will be) and then go with Saladino and Miller at short.

[pacopete4]

We are hoping Saladino comes back and performs. Decent chance he doesn’t.

[JimH5]

The Twitterverse is displeased with Arcia.

 

And I agree with them.

[Bulldogboy]

I wonder what guys think when they watch Arcia at the plate. Is there an unwritten rule where a guy like Braun who takes his craft seriously can't say dude come on. Obviously Coles is not getting through. Someone has to do something. Swinging 3-0 tonight is a fireable offense.

[owbc]

Arcia could suck for two more years and I still wouldn't give up on him. If he continues to suck, I just hope he sucks in AAA and not MLB.

[Jenkins5]

He just needs to be down in AAA, get things figured out, find some success. Right now is doing no good for him at MLB. For now, he shouldn’t be in our short term plans. For this year we need a solution. Doesn’t matter in house or out. Maybe Saladino bounces back well from injury. Maybe Miller can help. Maybe a trade from huge like Machado to buy high with Twins Escobar, or buy low & platoon Profar.

 

Anyway we shape it. Arcia should go down & not be brought up until he shows he deserves to be up. His defense will be missed but an offense like ours can’t afford his bat right now.

[The stache]

It's frustrating to see Arcia contributing nothing offensively, considering where he was last year at age 22. But it is way, way, way too soon to start talking about moving on.

 

Andrelton Simmons is an interesting parallel. He had one decent season with the stick in 2013 at age 23-a .692 OPS isn't going to make anybody smile like the Cheshire cat, but 17 home runs showed he had offensive potential. Then, he dropped down to .617 in '14. 2015 was a very slight improvement at .660, and the Braves moved him to the Angels. He hit .281 and OPSd .690 in 2016 (OPS + was 91, pretty much the same as his '13 season). In 2017, he hit .278 and OPSd .752. That's a 102 OPS +. He doubled 38 times, hit 14 home runs, stole 19 bases in 25 tries. 47 walks against 62 strikeouts. This year, he's been even better, hitting .330 in 215 ABs, slashing .399/.460/.860 across 244 PAs. He's walked 24 times and struck out only 10.

 

If Arcia can put up the kind of numbers Simmons did in 2017, and keep evolving as a premium defensive shortstop, I'd be happy as a clam. If he improves on those numbers, it's all gravy.

 

I want, in Arcia, a guy that is patient at the plate. He doesn't have to hit 20 home runs. If he can hit .270, keep the walks and strikeouts close, and throw in some extra base hits, I'm happy with him for the next ten seasons. The Cardinals did just fine with Ozzie Smith at short for a number of years.

 

The Brewers are where they are this year because of their bullpen, and improved defense. It's nice to finally see some guys in the Brewers uni who can play D. If we have to carry Arcia a while with less than stellar offense, it will mean some pain along the way. But it might just be a matter of time before he figures it out. We don't know. Eventually, one of these highly rated shortstops-Escobar, Segura, and now Arcia, has to be given a real chance. See where he is in another year or two.

[FVBrewerFan]

Good examples, JJ Hardy is another. There's no guarantee Arcia will ever turn it around. My guess is Dubon is the insurance policy, and they would give him some run before going outside the organization.

 

That's long term. Short term, Arcia needs to go down for a while and figure some things out.

[SoCalBrewfan]

I think it's also important to note that the Brewers probably didn't expect to be this competitive when they brought up Arcia...the timeline has accelerated. If this team were muddling along chasing a .500 season or a top 10 draft choice, there would be more patience and less pressure on Arcia to hit.

 

He's a young guy who has showed good tools and has some productive minor league seasons, and it would be a huge mistake to give up on him when he's 23. He doesn't have to hit a lot to be a net positive given his current defense, either. Of course as he ages that balance will shift, and of course this is baseball so things can change quickly, but for now I still consider him the present and at least short term future at short.

[tmwiese55]

If he continues to flail like he did last night I'd guess he's back to AAA whenever they bring Miller up and/or Salad is back. He seems to have no shot at the plate right now

[pacopete4]

Is Saladino even close to a return?

[xisxisxis]

I want, in Arcia, a guy that is patient at the plate.

 

I think it's also important to note that the Brewers probably didn't expect to be this competitive when they brought up Arcia...the timeline has accelerated. If this team were muddling along chasing a .500 season or a top 10 draft choice, there would be more patience and less pressure on Arcia to hit.

 

It doesn't take more than a games worth of plate appearances to see how abysmal his approach is. He literally will swing at ball 15 instead of take a walk. He is hitting 8th most games and while the opposing pitcher has tried to walk him, often, Arcia won't have any of that... chicks don't dig the BB... His head is so far up his butt in the box the brewers should just order him to stand at the plate and not swing and his OBP would easily jump 30 points...

 

Baseball is a business. They sell it as entertainment to justify the exorbitant prices. Any entertainment he brings in the field ("tag, tag, tag") he more than negates at the plate. If they want to continue to subject their customers to Arcia, they should offer a 10% discount on tickets and concessions... They could pay part of my cable bill too...

[jerichoholicninja]

Saying Arcia is struggling would be giving him way too much credit. Suter has had better at bats than Orlando this year. And that is not being sarcastic or hyperbolic. Orlando is beyond pathetic right now.

[YelichPosse]

I had it yesterday when he popped up the 3-0 pitch.......

 

If CC is serious about accountability, he would have pulled him there and benched him. That is a huge no no , ESPECIALLY when struggling.

[FVBrewerFan]

Not sure why everyone is using different ways to say the same thing, Arcia is lost at the plate. No kidding. The discussion is about what they do long term at SS.

[xisxisxis]

The discussion is about what they do long term at SS.

 

I don't know why people keep asking what we do long-term at SS... The Brewers just spent their #1 draft pick on the player they hope will one day replace Arcia or the incubent SS whomever they might be.

 

Short term: option Arcia to Biloxi (forget Colorado Springs). Platoon Saladino/Miller.

Near term: depends on what Arcia does the rest of the year, but if he can't straighten anything out they should look for a better term answer. I don't think Arcia has to be average to continue with him, but if he could get into the 20ish range of SS on offense his defense is worth that level of offense.